anyone else having trouble receiving sms from megafone mobile in moscow?

[slim 1,525]

but with Mr. Heston gone now, seems like his life's work might have actually done something.

Yeah, shame about that. Great actor, loved his movies. Hate the NRA. (flame away boys, I'm a gun owner too but the NRA will never see a dime from me.)

I won't go so far as to say I hate the NRA, but I'm not a member and am kind of apprehensive to join any "political" group. After all, some say it was the NRA's push that got us our wonderful President we have today. I don't see how that's money well spent.

But, on the flip side, I really don't see anyone else standing up for the 2nd Amendment, so maybe $25/year isn't too bad to ensure that someone's out there supporting it. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when we need to pay someone to ensure our Constitutional rights are upheld. But, that's America.

So enjoy your survival training, I'll be sitting here in Starbucks with my triple-shot carmel iced macchiato with sprinkles (light on the foam please) pretending to be all intellectual and stuff while surfing pr0n on my Macbook.

I'm all for sitting at Starbucks doing the wonderful things you've described (caramel iced macchiatos are the bomb!) but I wouldn't be comfortable sitting there doing that without first sizing up those around me, locating all exits/entries, identifying possible weapons and formulating contingency plans in my head. Call it a trained response, but it's automatic. I won't say it's going to save my life someday, but I will say I'm going to fare better than someone who doesn't do those things when something does happen.

Slim, I think you are thinking of the DC Circuit Court of Appeals decision. The Supreme court agreed to hear the case and oral arguments were made on March 18th, but they are not expected to rule on the case until June or July. I just did a quick google and couldnt find anything that said that they upheld the DC circuit court's decision yet. Although I hope they will.

OK. I just caught a snippet of it on the radio and didn't hear any outcome of the rulings. (Probably because they haven't been ruled on yet.) Either way, at least the DC Circuit Court of Appeals is pulling their heads out of their @$$es and leaning in the right direction, finally! The part that I heard said they ruled the ban on the right to own a handgun in a private residence violated the 2A right to keep and bear arms as an individual right. The Supreme Court had previously not used 2A in terms of individual rights, moreover a collective right to keep arms by all individuals. The reason they (on the radio) were touting this ruling as so important was that this was the first time the Supreme Court was actually recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms as being protected under 2A. We'll see what happens. Could make for a very interesting election and post-election.

"Sorry Hillary, you can't take 'em away now, they're covered under the 2nd Amendment."

I'm not as confident we'll always have the right to bear arms. England and Australia (countries very much like us) have total gun bans including confiscation. Of course, crime has soared in both countries but they're disarmed. Must be reassuring to a burglar or home invader that he (she?) can enter any home and be certain he (she?) won't be shot.

America has had a somewhat different relationship with firearms than England and Australia. We were also founded by a group of Riflemen who's main mission, once establishing freedom for everyone, was to secure and protect it. They didn't really have that there.

As for gun control/crime statistics even being related, there are pros and cons on each side. Always a conflicting figure. Always evidence to back up this side or that side. But, when it comes down to it, and the cons are outside, as in outside your front door, would you rather have a gun or no gun. And of course, the main selling point for anti-gunners has always been "less guns = less crime" with the counterpoint being "only law-abiding citizens comply with gun laws." Criminals don't turn in their guns.

It starts out slowly...like the total gun bans in San Francisco and DC. Maryland is also very anti-gun as is New Jersey and NY. The more modern soft males get away from handling guns, the more they fear them and want to ban them. The men in this country who know how to handle a handgun or rifle is certainly in the minority i would think.

Although I don't think it's a minority yet... I agree that it's getting there. As is the amount of males that can change their own flat tires, throw a baseball, run a mile, and defend themselves from someone attempting to cause death or serious bodily harm to them or their families.

But they sure can play a fake guitar!

The one good thing going for gun ownership is the 2nd Amendment is federal. Sure, they can ban guns in NYC or DC, or wherever. But, as long as there are places like Texas and Wyoming, guns will never completely go away. Elected officials from those places get a lot of money to ensure they don't just disappear. (See above about where that $25 NRA "contribution" goes.)

I think the clock is ticking on the 2nd amendment. I hope I'm wrong. As someone said, citizens without guns become "subjects."

I think the clock is ticking on America. As you said, the more modern soft males we get, the more fear we get. The more fear we get, the more we want to pretend bad things do not exist. Sometimes bad things need to be done and once they stop being done, there's no longer an environment for the modern soft male to exist in. Good luck with the hair gel, buddy. Oh, and you forgot your purse.

[shikarnov 7]

Speaking as a "soft" male whose only experience with a gun was noting that a US police officer was prepared to draw his at the first flinch during a routine traffic stop, it seems clear to me that these weapons should not be banned. The founders of the country drew up the second amendment, not to ensure that we can pick off home invaders (although that's not a bad ability to have), but to form a militia if there's ever a need to mount a serious resistance movement to an oppressive government or foreign invasion.

Given the current state of American politics and power, I'd say all the fire under which the Second Amendment is coming is yet another symptom of our Nanny State gaining more and more power. We've already sacrificed too many rights in the name of "security." Some day people are going to wake up and realize what we've lost, but by that point protests and marches may not help. Some day a real revolution may become necessary. And what will those people fight with?

Z

[mox 298]

Some day a real revolution may become necessary. And what will those people fight with?

The Army has tanks and cruise missiles and rocket launchers and, if it really came to it, tactical nukes. Your hunting rifle, or even assault rifle, isn't going to make a spit of difference if it really came down to it. (and for what it's worth, it's ridiculous to think that it would ever come down to that.)

But I find the whole thing laughable. It's not our government we need to worry about, at least not directly. It's corporate America. They have bought and paid for you, and me, and everyone else in this country. We'll never rise up against the machine while we have our iPods and our iced coffees and our cell phones that we can play games on and upload photos to Myspace with. While we're screaming about our rights to bear arms, corporate America is taking you out with cheap plastic goods from China. And they'll take your 50 gallon drum of fudge ripple you got from Wal Mart from your cold, chubby hands.

[eekee 182]

But I find the whole thing laughable. It's not our government we need to worry about, at least not directly. It's corporate America. They have bought and paid for you, and me, and everyone else in this country. We'll never rise up against the machine while we have our iPods and our iced coffees and our cell phones that we can play games on and upload photos to Myspace with. While we're screaming about our rights to bear arms, corporate America is taking you out with cheap plastic goods from China. And they'll take your 50 gallon drum of fudge ripple you got from Wal Mart from your cold, chubby hands.

[shikarnov 7]

Some day a real revolution may become necessary. And what will those people fight with?

The Army has tanks and cruise missiles and rocket launchers and, if it really came to it, tactical nukes. Your hunting rifle, or even assault rifle, isn't going to make a spit of difference if it really came down to it. (and for what it's worth, it's ridiculous to think that it would ever come down to that.)

But I find the whole thing laughable. It's not our government we need to worry about, at least not directly. It's corporate America. They have bought and paid for you, and me, and everyone else in this country. We'll never rise up against the machine while we have our iPods and our iced coffees and our cell phones that we can play games on and upload photos to Myspace with. While we're screaming about our rights to bear arms, corporate America is taking you out with cheap plastic goods from China. And they'll take your 50 gallon drum of fudge ripple you got from Wal Mart from your cold, chubby hands.

Let's not forget that corporations that operate in the United States, although your concerns about them are valid, are still beholden to US laws. That they've been able to buy our politicians so easily speaks volumes about the state of our government. The solution to the corporate problem is with a government run by and for people.

That the wealthy and powerful people who run corporations and have bought our government might not want to willingly and peacefully relinquish the power they've amassed over time seems ridiculous to you? The Constitution was formed after a violent and bloody revolution. It was left incomplete and changeable because the founders understood that the future cannot be easily predicted.

A tyrannical US government was a possibility they feared, and that's they included provisions that made it difficult for any single part of the government to gain such strength. Over the years of my lifetime, the government has been slowly erasing the barriers to creating power. More privileges are being concentrated with the Executive. Oversight powers are being ceded by the Legislative. Within the Executive, we've concentrated agencies that were rightly separated to protect against the unrestricted sharing of information.

The only thing ridiculous here is the total faith that you seem to have, that a corrupt government will always yield to the screaming of pundits and talking heads on TV, or chanting around the Reflection Pool.

Z

[mox 298]

The only thing ridiculous here is the total faith that you seem to have, that a corrupt government will always yield to the screaming of pundits and talking heads on TV, or chanting around the Reflection Pool.

I actually agree with everything you said, except this quote. Remember, I'm the resident granola hippy. I trust our government about as far as I can throw the statue of liberty.

My point was exactly the point you're making. I don't believe our government will ever *have* to use guns and tanks and rocket launchers on the populace, because we will all be too engrossed in our mass consumerism. When the government started wiretapping our phones, where was the outrage? There was none. But we all got bent way to shiт when Microsoft decided to make eleventy billion versions of Vista, because that was bad for the consumer. President Bush vetoed legislation that would make torture illegal, but the news we were all really interested in was that every Starbucks in the nation was shutting down for 2 hours so the employees could be trained to make a better cup of coffee. (damn, I really have Starbucks on the brain. I have no idea why.)

You are exactly right. Our government is being bought and sold to the highest bidder. But we...the people...are allowing it to happen. And as long as we have our iPhones and 80-pack tube socks for $10, the government has absolutely nothing to fear from us.

Edited April 8, 2008 by mox

[slim 1,525]

Speaking as a "soft" male whose only experience with a gun was noting that a US police officer was prepared to draw his at the first flinch during a routine traffic stop, it seems clear to me that these weapons should not be banned. The founders of the country drew up the second amendment, not to ensure that we can pick off home invaders (although that's not a bad ability to have), but to form a militia if there's ever a need to mount a serious resistance movement to an oppressive government or foreign invasion.

Given the current state of American politics and power, I'd say all the fire under which the Second Amendment is coming is yet another symptom of our Nanny State gaining more and more power. We've already sacrificed too many rights in the name of "security." Some day people are going to wake up and realize what we've lost, but by that point protests and marches may not help. Some day a real revolution may become necessary. And what will those people fight with?

Z

Excellent post, Z. And by the way, not having gun experience is not what makes you "soft", it's the hair gel and purse coupled with the lack of knowledge and experience doing "manly things" such as changing a tire or playing catch. Even if that's not your forte, the fact that you can identify with the need to do "manly things" if necessary could, in fact, make you not "soft." (I have a feeling you're probably not a "soft" guy. Russia is not a place for "soft" guys to thrive.)

Some day a real revolution may become necessary. And what will those people fight with?

The Army has tanks and cruise missiles and rocket launchers and, if it really came to it, tactical nukes. Your hunting rifle, or even assault rifle, isn't going to make a spit of difference if it really came down to it. (and for what it's worth, it's ridiculous to think that it would ever come down to that.)

But I find the whole thing laughable. It's not our government we need to worry about, at least not directly. It's corporate America. They have bought and paid for you, and me, and everyone else in this country. We'll never rise up against the machine while we have our iPods and our iced coffees and our cell phones that we can play games on and upload photos to Myspace with. While we're screaming about our rights to bear arms, corporate America is taking you out with cheap plastic goods from China. And they'll take your 50 gallon drum of fudge ripple you got from Wal Mart from your cold, chubby hands.

Agreed also, but once again, technology only takes you so far! What good are tanks without fuel and preventative maintenance? What good are cruise missiles without software? And in true 2A spirit, a "militia" with hunting and assault rifles would never have to fight the Army because the government would never be powerful enough to send the Army against it's own people making up the militia. Just having the bomb is enough to never have to use it (again.) Having enough of the population with hunting and assault rifles to comprise a "militia" is also enough to never have to use them.

But, I'm in full agreement with you, as long as we're fat, dumb, and happy, that's the furthest thing from our minds. But, also once again, what happens when we're no longer able to be fat, dumb, and happy?

[shikarnov 7]

Excellent post, Z. And by the way, not having gun experience is not what makes you "soft", it's the hair gel and purse coupled with the lack of knowledge and experience doing "manly things" such as changing a tire or playing catch. Even if that's not your forte, the fact that you can identify with the need to do "manly things" if necessary could, in fact, make you not "soft." (I have a feeling you're probably not a "soft" guy. Russia is not a place for "soft" guys to thrive.)

You're absolutely right about Russia not being a place for soft guys to thrive. If I was soft before going, spending two years there certainly would have done me in.

And, for the record (and because I feel the manly need to campaign for myself a bit), I can change tires just fine, play catch, wire a house from top to bottom, etc. I can't shoot hoops for beans, however.

Z

[mox 298]

But, I'm in full agreement with you, as long as we're fat, dumb, and happy, that's the furthest thing from our minds. But, also once again, what happens when we're no longer able to be fat, dumb, and happy?

You only need look back a few years for the answer to that. When Germany was defeated after WW1, they were poverty stricken and on the verge of starvation and collapse. The West saw fit to keep them that way. So what "saved" Germany? The rise of National Socialism. Germans needed an enemy and Hitler gave them Jews and homosexuals. It will happen the same way here if it happens. Americans will need an enemy that is the cause of our oppression, and whoever is in charge will give them the Chinese and the Arabs. It'll make the whole "Support the Troops" bullshiт that the GOP used to make thinking too much about the war unpopular look like amateur theater. Amateur theater in a Starbucks. (to continue the theme.)

[shikarnov 7]

I actually agree with everything you said, except this quote. Remember, I'm the resident granola hippy. I trust our government about as far as I can throw the statue of liberty.

My point was exactly the point you're making. I don't believe our government will ever *have* to use guns and tanks and rocket launchers on the populace, because we will all be too engrossed in our mass consumerism. When the government started wiretapping our phones, where was the outrage? There was none. But we all got bent way to shiт when Microsoft decided to make eleventy billion versions of Vista, because that was bad for the consumer. President Bush vetoed legislation that would make torture illegal, but the news we were all really interested in was that every Starbucks in the nation was shutting down for 2 hours so the employees could be trained to make a better cup of coffee. (damn, I really have Starbucks on the brain. I have no idea why.)

You are exactly right. Our government is being bought and sold to the highest bidder. But we...the people...are allowing it to happen. And as long as we have our iPhones and 80-pack tube socks for $10, the government has absolutely nothing to fear from us.

I get that, Kirk, I really do. But do you really think it's ridiculous to assume that, someday, something's going to happen that causes people to take notice? Economic collapse? War? Something? Like you, I don't have a lot of faith in government or people. But I've got to believe that something's gonna change around here eventually. It's getting to a point where I don't see much difference (technology and general cleanliness aside) between the US and Russia, and I can't believe -- don't want to believe -- that decline will continue on forever unnoticed.

Z

PS: Maybe Marx had it wrong when he said that "religion is the opium of the people." Maybe the simple need for more cool stuff is the real societal drug.

[slim 1,525]

Gotta go guys. It's been fun playing. Going to go spend some money on my wife. Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a cheapskate! HONK!!! HONK!!! HONK!!!

And the real societal drug is in Starbucks cups!

[visaveteran1 33]

I've been to an NRA firing range and it was very enlightening. Broke down all the stereotypes. The shooters were almost entirely professional, white collar people; many professional women and girls shooting; and the people that worked there were very middle class and professional.

Didn't see any overalls or camo clothing. The parking lot was full of BMVs and Audis and Porches and very few pick-ups.

There are a lot of closet gun advocates who resist coming out into the light for fear of labeling and attacks. It's still "cool" to be anti-gun. I saw it as my duty to teach my son about guns, so I starting taking him to the range. Of course he loved it and it's still a great father-son activity and carries on the traditional of teaching our sons (and now daughters) how to take care of themselves and understand gun safety. My wife at the time freaked-out and fought me on it, but I would not be turned back from what I saw as my fatherly duty.

The NRA was critical in fighting the fierce battle over gun rights during the Clinton administration's full bore attempt to scale back the 2nd Amend rights. The NRA won...and so did we in my view. I don't think that would have happened without the efforts of Charleton Heston.

[visaveteran1 33]

Gotta go guys. It's been fun playing. Going to go spend some money on my wife. Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a cheapskate! HONK!!! HONK!!! HONK!!!

And the real societal drug is in Starbucks cups!

Agreed! I'll have an iced Americano with 3 raw sugars please!

[Bobalouie 0]

Gotta go guys. It's been fun playing. Going to go spend some money on my wife. Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm a cheapskate! HONK!!! HONK!!! HONK!!!

And the real societal drug is in Starbucks cups!

Agreed! I'll have an iced Americano with 3 raw sugars please!

Can I just get a coffee? Or maybe a nice hot cup of tea?

[mox 298]

Can I just get a coffee? Or maybe a nice hot cup of tea?

n00b!