Medical Exam in Moscow

[eekee 182]

11 other strangers and their luggage? I would like to see this cab!

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not you have the ability to haggle.

I addressed this already in a previous post. I (and nobody else here to my knowledge) am not saying that at all. I appreciate the "cheapest way to..." posts. I do not appreciate the "you are a moron because you didn't just share a cab with 11 other strangers" answers.

[mox 298]

11 other strangers and their luggage? I would like to see this cab!

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not you have the ability to haggle.

In Russian.

Which is exactly my point. I think it's great that Sat and a few others around here know enough Russian to find the cheapest way around the country, and that's very cool and I'm all ears when it comes to sharing that information. But (channeling Otto from A Fish Called Wanda now) "don't call me stupid." SVO is the most foreigner-unfriendly airport I've ever flown through, and I've flown through some doozies. If you speak the language you may not realize just how hard it is to navigate from the moment you step off the plane. The "customer service" people are rude, most don't speak English, and the English translations on the signs are few and far between, and often inaccurate. The cab drivers are a well orchestrated mob of muggers, and there's little in place to control them. To the hapless traveler who speaks little to no Russian, it's a no-win situation.

[Satellite 1]

Then you have a poor memory, perhaps because your body is too cheap to allocate the proper number of neurons to this information. Nobody to my recollection paid $150 for a cab between SVO2 and SVO1. It might have been as high as $60.

My poor memory:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...341&hl=taxi [Turboguy is offered $100 taxi each way]

"Wife says that if you do NOT do this, if you are fool enough to just show up at the airport and look for a taxi, you will pay at least $100 in Kazan, and $200+ in Moscow. They know you are stuck and simply will not take you for less. Pay heed!!!"

[Ak's Wife warning of $200 cab Moscow prices].

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry371374

Both Mox and Seanconneryii admit to paying $60.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...l=cab&st=30

Russ says minimum $50 to SVO.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...2203&hl=cab

It's unfortunate the forum got restarted in early 2006, otherwise I could have found more cases of excessive cab paying.

[mox 298]

Then you have a poor memory, perhaps because your body is too cheap to allocate the proper number of neurons to this information. Nobody to my recollection paid $150 for a cab between SVO2 and SVO1. It might have been as high as $60.

My poor memory:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...341&hl=taxi [Turboguy is offered $100 taxi each way]

This was a quote from SVO to the hotel, not SVO2 to SVO1, and it doesn't appear that turboguy actually paid it.

"Wife says that if you do NOT do this, if you are fool enough to just show up at the airport and look for a taxi, you will pay at least $100 in Kazan, and $200+ in Moscow. They know you are stuck and simply will not take you for less. Pay heed!!!"

[Ak's Wife warning of $200 cab Moscow prices].

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry371374

A warning, not actually a payment, and the Moscow quote is from SVO to downtown, not to the other terminal.

Both Mox and Seanconneryii admit to paying $60.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...l=cab&st=30

As I said.

Russ says minimum $50 to SVO.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...2203&hl=cab

It's unfortunate the forum got restarted in early 2006, otherwise I could have found more cases of excessive cab paying.

Well under $100.

Read my quote again. I said nobody reported paying $100+ between SVO1 and SVO2. And it appears, based on your searches, that nobody has reported paying more than $60.

<snark>

Reading comprehension must be a little too expensive to run up there too, huh?

</snark>

Edited April 9, 2008 by mox

[Bobalouie 0]

Then you have a poor memory, perhaps because your body is too cheap to allocate the proper number of neurons to this information. Nobody to my recollection paid $150 for a cab between SVO2 and SVO1. It might have been as high as $60.

My poor memory:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...341&hl=taxi [Turboguy is offered $100 taxi each way]

This was a quote from SVO to the hotel, not SVO2 to SVO1, and it doesn't appear that turboguy actually paid it.

"Wife says that if you do NOT do this, if you are fool enough to just show up at the airport and look for a taxi, you will pay at least $100 in Kazan, and $200+ in Moscow. They know you are stuck and simply will not take you for less. Pay heed!!!"

[Ak's Wife warning of $200 cab Moscow prices].

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry371374

A warning, not actually a payment, and the Moscow quote is from SVO to downtown, not to the other terminal.

Both Mox and Seanconneryii admit to paying $60.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...l=cab&st=30

As I said.

Russ says minimum $50 to SVO.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...2203&hl=cab

It's unfortunate the forum got restarted in early 2006, otherwise I could have found more cases of excessive cab paying.

Well under $100.

Read my quote again. I said nobody reported paying $100+ between SVO1 and SVO2. And it appears, based on your searches, that nobody has reported paying more than $60.

They usually start at 2500-3000 rub, I tell them I will only pay a 1000. They balk and come down to 2000, I repeat 1000, they say, 1500 is best I can do, I turn around and start talking to a competitor cabbie and the original cabbie grabs my bag and says 1000 OK. So, what ever that works out to with the exchange, 40-45 bucks is what I pay. This negotiating tactic has worked every time.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Bobalouie

[slim 1,530]

I use coupons when I go grocery shopping. But I don't go on and on about it on the immigration message boards.

I'm bored at work and trying to was trying to liven things up a bit, its getting so PC in here... and Mox's message gave me a good laugh, I had to follow up on it.

Your follow up gave me a good laugh.

but if it costs me an extra $100 bucks not to worry, so be it. There are too many confirmed reports of bad things happening to women in Russia. The chances of something happening to one of the ladies on this forum, very slim indeed, but why take the chance?

If there's no $100, then that chance must be taken.

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to protect a woman you love. But the attitude sometimes veers toward protecting them from the place they've obviously managed to survive in all these years just fine. The Russian women I know are far more street smart than their American equivalents on average.

I get harassed by men just as much in America as I do in Russia. The men in america also tend to be more sober when they do it, which isn't really an advantage.

Again, not trying to say that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to ensure the safety of a woman you love...

I 100% agree with this. If there's money there and you can afford to pay for her to take cabs everywhere and stay in nice hotels and not have to deal with some of the unpleasant parts of a big unknown city, then sure, pay the extra money and rest assured that shel'll be well. However, she's in her country, and regardless of the city's size the things that you guys are talking about paying extra money to protect her from are not things that should be new just because she's in an unknown city.

To take this back to the OP, there's nothing in Russia that says women have to put up with being harassed at a medical place, even if it is to get a U.S. visa. The fact that it's in Moscow should be even more of a reason to not put up with unethical treatment. When I told my wife this story, she basically said that since it's a big city it would be more easy to report the violation and get the people arrested right on the spot. She related that women should never put up with this stuff at a clinic, they must just contact the police immediately and make a report.

One thing I think you need to realize Ekee (and maybe you do) is that men have a primal need to "protect" their women. We know they've lived on those streets all their life, but once they fall under our umbrella we feel the responsibility falls to us to shield them from harm. It's not anything I can explain, and it is sometimes manifested irrationally, but it is what it is.

I feel no need to "protect" my wife from things she's perfectly capable of protecting herself from. I'll even go one further to say if she's not protecting herself from things she knows she should be protecting herself from then maybe she deserves to get whatever comes to her.

The direction this thread was going in was if you didn't pay for your wife to have a driver to/from the airport and interview, the nice hotel, etc., then you really didn't care about her safety because you were a cheap ####### and would rather save $100 than "ensure" she was safe. The way I see it, if you pay for her to have a driver, a nice hotel, etc. the only thing you're really ensuring is that she's going to assume you're willing to pay for her to have the nicest things whenever she's associated with you. And that has nothing to do with security at all.

(And once again, thanks for sharing the story Mr. "kind eyes!")

[Satellite 1]

The direction this thread was going in was if you didn't pay for your wife to have a driver to/from the airport and interview, the nice hotel, etc., then you really didn't care about her safety because you were a cheap ####### and would rather save $100 than "ensure" she was safe. The way I see it, if you pay for her to have a driver, a nice hotel, etc. the only thing you're really ensuring is that she's going to assume you're willing to pay for her to have the nicest things whenever she's associated with you. And that has nothing to do with security at all.

Agreed. And you know when it shows best; when we go out once a month to some little cafe to eat for under $15 my wife is appreciative and excited about it; and when you pay through the roof, then all you get is, why did you take me to this lousy place, the food is nasty, and why only $30 a plate?!

[visaveteran1 33]

I use coupons when I go grocery shopping. But I don't go on and on about it on the immigration message boards.

I'm bored at work and trying to was trying to liven things up a bit, its getting so PC in here... and Mox's message gave me a good laugh, I had to follow up on it.

Your follow up gave me a good laugh.

but if it costs me an extra $100 bucks not to worry, so be it. There are too many confirmed reports of bad things happening to women in Russia. The chances of something happening to one of the ladies on this forum, very slim indeed, but why take the chance?

If there's no $100, then that chance must be taken.

I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to protect a woman you love. But the attitude sometimes veers toward protecting them from the place they've obviously managed to survive in all these years just fine. The Russian women I know are far more street smart than their American equivalents on average.

I get harassed by men just as much in America as I do in Russia. The men in america also tend to be more sober when they do it, which isn't really an advantage.

Again, not trying to say that there's anything inherently wrong with wanting to ensure the safety of a woman you love...

I 100% agree with this. If there's money there and you can afford to pay for her to take cabs everywhere and stay in nice hotels and not have to deal with some of the unpleasant parts of a big unknown city, then sure, pay the extra money and rest assured that shel'll be well. However, she's in her country, and regardless of the city's size the things that you guys are talking about paying extra money to protect her from are not things that should be new just because she's in an unknown city.

To take this back to the OP, there's nothing in Russia that says women have to put up with being harassed at a medical place, even if it is to get a U.S. visa. The fact that it's in Moscow should be even more of a reason to not put up with unethical treatment. When I told my wife this story, she basically said that since it's a big city it would be more easy to report the violation and get the people arrested right on the spot. She related that women should never put up with this stuff at a clinic, they must just contact the police immediately and make a report.

One thing I think you need to realize Ekee (and maybe you do) is that men have a primal need to "protect" their women. We know they've lived on those streets all their life, but once they fall under our umbrella we feel the responsibility falls to us to shield them from harm. It's not anything I can explain, and it is sometimes manifested irrationally, but it is what it is.

I feel no need to "protect" my wife from things she's perfectly capable of protecting herself from. I'll even go one further to say if she's not protecting herself from things she knows she should be protecting herself from then maybe she deserves to get whatever comes to her.

The direction this thread was going in was if you didn't pay for your wife to have a driver to/from the airport and interview, the nice hotel, etc., then you really didn't care about her safety because you were a cheap ####### and would rather save $100 than "ensure" she was safe. The way I see it, if you pay for her to have a driver, a nice hotel, etc. the only thing you're really ensuring is that she's going to assume you're willing to pay for her to have the nicest things whenever she's associated with you. And that has nothing to do with security at all.

(And once again, thanks for sharing the story Mr. "kind eyes!")

No...the direction of the thread was the hazards of going to MOM. The follow on was using MOM and getting same day results versus staying an extra day to avoid the possibility of abuse. Then we debated the "risks" versus spending money issue.

[anka 1]

You're really paying for YOUR safety, not your fiancee's. Trust me. Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man. The worst thing to ever happened to a woman I know is being pickpocketed. The worst thing that ever happened to a guy I know? I can't even talk about it because it's too dangerous as the culprits are still at large. I also know guys who have had the #### kicked out of them for walking down the street. When I'm with American guys, we're followed by narcomen and drunks and harassed by police. None of this happens when I'm with Russian girls. I actually felt safer walking home alone at night in SPb than where I am now because there's so many places open 24 hours that I could go into if i felt like something was wrong. But obviously foreign men who seem like they might have some cash in their pockets? Walking target. Your women survived just fine relying on their street smarts before you ever came into the picture. Sure it's nice to treat them and all, but as far as risk aversion goes...

Sorry to bust into this thread but I just have to say I can't agree with you (Eekee) more here... The stories i have involving men (mainly foreign men, but one or two even involving Russian men) walking around, is quite horrifically extensive. The stories of girls walking around alone? Not so much. The only one I can think of is when my friend Masha was pick-pocketed while riding on the marshrutka rom Devyatkino. In my opinion, I'd be more worried about something happening to your girl while inside a club---and not as much outside of it. In Russia, looks can be very deceptive- and in every sense of the word.

[Bobalouie 0]

You're really paying for YOUR safety, not your fiancee's. Trust me. Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man. The worst thing to ever happened to a woman I know is being pickpocketed. The worst thing that ever happened to a guy I know? I can't even talk about it because it's too dangerous as the culprits are still at large. I also know guys who have had the #### kicked out of them for walking down the street. When I'm with American guys, we're followed by narcomen and drunks and harassed by police. None of this happens when I'm with Russian girls. I actually felt safer walking home alone at night in SPb than where I am now because there's so many places open 24 hours that I could go into if i felt like something was wrong. But obviously foreign men who seem like they might have some cash in their pockets? Walking target. Your women survived just fine relying on their street smarts before you ever came into the picture. Sure it's nice to treat them and all, but as far as risk aversion goes...

Sorry to bust into this thread but I just have to say I can't agree with you (Eekee) more here... The stories i have involving men (mainly foreign men, but one or two even involving Russian men) walking around, is quite horrifically extensive. The stories of girls walking around alone? Not so much. The only one I can think of is when my friend Masha was pick-pocketed while riding on the marshrutka rom Devyatkino. In my opinion, I'd be more worried about something happening to your girl while inside a club---and not as much outside of it. In Russia, looks can be very deceptive- and in every sense of the word.

Again, different strokes, different folks. Russia is not the safest place in the world, for anyone, escpessially young women who are not from big cities travelling in the big cities. If you want, I can probably dig up recent news stuff on it. But, I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

[slim 1,530]

I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

[eekee 182]

yep... you, unarmed, vs a gang of nine guys ten, fifteen years your junior with knives to slit your throat (the Russian way)--maybe if you're Chuck Norris. but otherwise, you're screwed.

I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

[Bobalouie 0]

yep... you, unarmed, vs a gang of nine guys ten, fifteen years your junior with knives to slit your throat (the Russian way)--maybe if you're Chuck Norris. but otherwise, you're screwed.

I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

So, I gotta ask, Whats the Russian way of slitting a mans throat? I know "old fashioned" and "colombian Necktie", but not Russian.

[eekee 182]

I just meant that it seems to the common Russian protocol, not that there was some special way.

So, I gotta ask, Whats the Russian way of slitting a mans throat? I know "old fashioned" and "colombian Necktie", but not Russian.

[Bobalouie 0]

I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

Slim,

I agree with what you are saying. However, if I am jumped as a foriener in Russia, it is because I have money. They want it, I give it, I might take a few shots, but unless they are wanting to kill me from the git go, I come out of the ordeal OK. If your wife is jumped in Russia, its not for money, it is for something else, because she would be viewed as a Russain, who probably doesnt have the kind of money worth their time.

So, I get beat up, and lose 500 or 1000 bucks. I am pissed for sure, but I am going to get over it. I have a feeling that forcible rape by the above mentioned nine guys is probably a little tougher to get over. So, if I have the extra jack to make sure that she is safe, then I am going to spend it.