Interesting Article

[iceyspots 0]

Algeria: AI writes to Algerian President about torture concerns

AI Index: MDE 28/009/2006

News Service No: 102

Embargo Date: 24 April 2006 00:01 GMT

Amnesty International is calling on Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika to take effective measures to end secret detention and torture of alleged terrorist suspects.

In a memorandum sent to the president, Amnesty International provides detailed information on the outcomes of its research into arrests and detentions of terrorist suspects over the past four years. It invites the Algerian authorities to provide information on any investigations that have been carried out into 12 specific cases of alleged secret detention and torture reported to it since 2002.

Amnesty International's research has revealed that there continues to be a real risk of torture for anyone suspected of involvement in terrorist activities. A key role in the arrest and detention of terrorist suspects is played by Algeria's military intelligence service, the Department for Information and Security (Département du renseignement et de la sécurité, DRS).

Wherever suspects are arrested or detained by the DRS, safeguards under Algerian and international law for the protection of detainees are routinely disregarded. Uncharged suspects are systematically held in secret places of detention, without any contact to the outside world, and there are persistent reports of torture and other ill-treatment. While detainees are held by the DRS, their families are not informed of their place of detention.

In some cases detainees are held in secret detention by the DRS for months before being brought before a judge. When brought before a judge for the first time, they are generally not assisted by a lawyer. Where detainees complain to the judicial authorities that they have been tortured while detained by the DRS, such complaints appear to be routinely dismissed without investigation.

Officers of the DRS are military personnel, but should operate under the authority of the general prosecutor if they arrest and detain suspects, according to Algerian law. In practice, however, no civilian institution exercises effective oversight over the practices of the DRS. Prosecutors do not enforce safeguards under Algerian law and are apparently not routinely informed of arrests carried out by the DRS.

Suspects detained by the DRS are held in military barracks, which are not officially recognized places of detention. Prosecutors appear not to use their prerogative to visit these barracks to ensure that detainees are being treated in accordance with the standards set out under Algerian law.

Amnesty International is urging the Algerian president to restrict the powers of the DRS and to ensure effective civilian oversight of all detentions in order to bring an end to the pattern of secret detentions and torture for which the DRS has been responsible. The DRS should not retain powers of arrest and detention; these should be limited to other law enforcement officers.

Amnesty International further calls on the Algerian president to:

enforce safeguards for detainees from secret detention and torture in Algerian and international law and to end the detention of suspects in unofficial places of detention;

ensure that all allegations of torture or other ill-treatment are investigated, in accordance with its international obligations, and the perpetrators brought to justice;

extend and invitation to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture to visit Algeria in the near future.

Hmmmmm... Torturing terrorist suspects?! What a concept.... Is anyone drawing the parallels I'm drawing?? Gitmo ring any bells?

I have to admit, I am a human rights enthusiast...tree hugger if you will... pacificst... but I have no remorse for chopfcuk terroists!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Also its interestin to note that while Amnesty International reports are used as ammunition to condemn human rights abusers in 3rd world countries, that same organisation is condemned when they criticise the US government for similar human rights violations in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

Last year, some folks in the senate tried to have funding withdrawn from (if memory serves) the International Committee of the Red Cross because that organisation comments were 'incompatible' with their political agenda.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Fishdude

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Hmmmmm... Torturing terrorist suspects?! What a concept.... Is anyone drawing the parallels I'm drawing?? Gitmo ring any bells?

I have to admit, I am a human rights enthusiast...tree hugger if you will... pacificst... but I have no remorse for chopfcuk terroists!!

Well the fact that we have human rights legislation is what sets us apart from the totalitarian dictatorships. That used to mean something. These days, unfortunately, it seems our values have become more amorphous and backward thinking.

Terrorism is not a new phenomenon. I don't really understand why one event (9/11) should change how we view and treat the rest of humanity.

[GaryC 7]

I am biting my tounge here. I think if I really expressed my views here all we will have is another flame thread. So in the interest of brevity I will only say this. Nothing that happens to a terrorist will invoke any guilty feelings about it.

[iceyspots 0]

Hmmmmm... Torturing terrorist suspects?! What a concept.... Is anyone drawing the parallels I'm drawing?? Gitmo ring any bells?

I have to admit, I am a human rights enthusiast...tree hugger if you will... pacificst... but I have no remorse for chopfcuk terroists!!

Well the fact that we have human rights legislation is what sets us apart from the totalitarian dictatorships. That used to mean something. These days, unfortunately, it seems our values have become more amorphous and backward thinking.

Terrorism is not a new phenomenon. I don't really understand why one event (9/11) should change how we view and treat the rest of humanity.

BTW - Algeria is not a totalitarian regime. They are the "Al Jumhuriyah al Jaza'iriyah ad Dimuqratiyah ash Sha'biyah" = The Peoples Democratic Republic of Algeria...

I am biting my tounge here. I think if I really expressed my views here all we will have is another flame thread. So in the interest of brevity I will only say this. Nothing that happens to a terrorist will invoke any guilty feelings about it.

Unless you personally attack someone, you are more than welcome to fling as much poo as you want on terrorists.

Edited May 3, 2006 by iceyspots

[GaryC 7]

Ok, you asked for it. If we catch someone that we KNOW is a terrorist (ie. caught in the act or have positive proof) I have no problems torturing him to death to get any info we can out of him if it means saving inocent lives. They are willing to bomb women and kids that have nothing to do with any military action just to get noticed. As far as I am concerned we should do whatever we need to do to stop these bastards. See? I warned you!

[iceyspots 0]

Ok, you asked for it. If we catch someone that we KNOW is a terrorist (ie. caught in the act or have positive proof) I have no problems torturing him to death to get any info we can out of him if it means saving inocent lives. They are willing to bomb women and kids that have nothing to do with any military action just to get noticed. As far as I am concerned we should do whatever we need to do to stop these bastards. See? I warned you!

I see no problem with that...agreed... ZERO tolerance for that filth!!

[GaryC 7]

Ok, you asked for it. If we catch someone that we KNOW is a terrorist (ie. caught in the act or have positive proof) I have no problems torturing him to death to get any info we can out of him if it means saving inocent lives. They are willing to bomb women and kids that have nothing to do with any military action just to get noticed. As far as I am concerned we should do whatever we need to do to stop these bastards. See? I warned you!

I see no problem with that...agreed... ZERO tolerance for that filth!!

Good!! I wish there were more like us. We could end this war on terror with a victory in a short amount of time if we just had the balls to do it. But the lilly livered left in this country want to give these bastards the same rights as us!! It boggles the mind!

[tom&tata 2]

Also its interestin to note that while Amnesty International reports are used as ammunition to condemn human rights abusers in 3rd world countries, that same organisation is condemned when they criticise the US government for similar human rights violations in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

Last year, some folks in the senate tried to have funding withdrawn from (if memory serves) the International Committee of the Red Cross because that organisation comments were 'incompatible' with their political agenda.

Double standard. It is terorism if your enemy is doing it, it is war on terror if you are doing it to your enemy. At the end, both are wrong

[GaryC 7]

Also its interestin to note that while Amnesty International reports are used as ammunition to condemn human rights abusers in 3rd world countries, that same organisation is condemned when they criticise the US government for similar human rights violations in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

Last year, some folks in the senate tried to have funding withdrawn from (if memory serves) the International Committee of the Red Cross because that organisation comments were 'incompatible' with their political agenda.

Double standard. It is terorism if your enemy is doing it, it is war on terror if you are doing it to your enemy. At the end, both are wrong

No it isn't a double standard. THEY are doing to inocent women and children. WE are doing it the the terrorists.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ok, you asked for it. If we catch someone that we KNOW is a terrorist (ie. caught in the act or have positive proof) I have no problems torturing him to death to get any info we can out of him if it means saving inocent lives. They are willing to bomb women and kids that have nothing to do with any military action just to get noticed. As far as I am concerned we should do whatever we need to do to stop these bastards. See? I warned you!

Sigh.... Terrorism is not new, I grew up during the Northern Ireland troubles, which over the last few decades cost the lives of several thousand people. We were faced with the threat of bombs in little bins in crowded high-streets and pedestrian areas, but at no point as far as I remember did we abandon the rule of law and the values of our society.

9/11 seems to have been the watershed for that. It was only then we decided to abandon our vaunted morality and embark on a new, more aggressive and I'll say it again 'backward thinking' agenda.

Respect the values of the morally upstanding civilisation you claim to be a part of. That civilisation preserves ALL human rights, even those of criminals. It sets us apart from them. I'm not advocating denying terrorists or criminals the appropriate punishment of law - simply respecting the values we claim to defend and that we apparently value so highly.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Fishdude

[GaryC 7]

Ok, you asked for it. If we catch someone that we KNOW is a terrorist (ie. caught in the act or have positive proof) I have no problems torturing him to death to get any info we can out of him if it means saving inocent lives. They are willing to bomb women and kids that have nothing to do with any military action just to get noticed. As far as I am concerned we should do whatever we need to do to stop these bastards. See? I warned you!

Sigh.... Terrorism is not new, I grew up during the Northern Ireland troubles, which over the last few decades cost the lives of several thousand people. We were faced with the threat of bombs in little bins in crowded high-streets and pedestrian areas, but at no point as far as I remember did we abandon the rule of law and the values of our society.

9/11 seems to have been the watershed for that. It was only then we decided to abandon our vaunted morality and embark on a new, more aggressive and I'll say it again 'backward thinking' agenda.

Respect the values of the morally upstanding civilisation you claim to be a part of. That civilisation preserves ALL human rights, even those of criminals. It sets us apart from them. I'm not advocating denying terrorists or criminals the appropriate punishment of law - simply respecting the values we claim to defend and that we apparently value so highly.

Your right, terrorism isn't new. But when we are faced with an enemy that is willing to kill THOUSANDS at a time then the rules do get changed. These slimeballs will use A-bombs on us if they could get their hands on one. They already have flown jets full of people into buildings. It's not the same as someone planting a bomb at a cafe and killing a few dozen people. The stakes have been raised. If we don't get real serious really fast we could see New York go up in a mushroom cloud soon. Then our morals and high values don't really seem all that important.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Your right, terrorism isn't new. But when we are faced with an enemy that is willing to kill THOUSANDS at a time then the rules do get changed. These slimeballs will use A-bombs on us if they could get their hands on one. They already have flown jets full of people into buildings. It's not the same as someone planting a bomb at a cafe and killing a few dozen people. The stakes have been raised. If we don't get real serious really fast we could see New York go up in a mushroom cloud soon. Then our morals and high values don't really seem all that important.

But should our values and morality be dictated by fear? Isn't that the goal of terrorism?

Some things just can't be compromised. The universal declaration of human rights and the subsequent legislation pertaining to it are what set our civilisation apart from the people we are fighting.

Quite simply, what sort of message does it send to the likes of China and North Korea, for example, when President Bush condemns their human rights record, yet at the same time the US is being condemned for violating human rights in Afghanistan, Iraq and Cuba?

Edited May 3, 2006 by Fishdude

[GaryC 7]

So we should let them blow us up and feel good we have kept our values? There is no moral values when your dead! And to compair us to N. Korea isn't at all fair. We are NOTHING like that!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So we should let them blow us up and feel good we have kept our values? There is no moral values when your dead! And to compair us to N. Korea isn't at all fair. We are NOTHING like that!!

Again, I say why should our values be dictated by fear?

I never said we should "allow them to blow us up", and I don't see how refusing to condone the torture and mal-treatment of criminals and terrorist suspects amounts to that.

Why isn't it fair to compare us to China or N. Korea? Abandoning human rights is ok if you do it a little?