The U.S. Is Poised to Hit a New Oil Gusher

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

I take it your project didn't quite meet your expectations. What was it, pray tell?

I want you to tell me why, and how, solar power is so feasible. To power LA for example. Should we ruin 5000 acres of land with solar cells and wind farms. In comparison to a few nuclear plants.

There is plenty of unfarmable land that cound be used for wind farms.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I take it your project didn't quite meet your expectations. What was it, pray tell?

I want you to tell me why, and how, solar power is so feasible. To power LA for example. Should we ruin 5000 acres of land with solar cells and wind farms. In comparison to a few nuclear plants.

I will once you tell me about your solar project and why it made you come to the conclusion that solar power is gimmicky. Why do you have so much trouble with answering direct questions?

Edited April 3, 2008 by Mister Fancypants

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I take it your project didn't quite meet your expectations. What was it, pray tell?

I want you to tell me why, and how, solar power is so feasible. To power LA for example. Should we ruin 5000 acres of land with solar cells and wind farms. In comparison to a few nuclear plants.

There are already loads of wind farms in the San Gorgonio pass which provides enough electricity to power Palm Springs and the entire Coachella Valley - next!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I take it your project didn't quite meet your expectations. What was it, pray tell?

I want you to tell me why, and how, solar power is so feasible. To power LA for example. Should we ruin 5000 acres of land with solar cells and wind farms. In comparison to a few nuclear plants.

There are already loads of wind farms in the San Gorgonio pass which provides enough electricity to power Palm Springs and the entire Coachella Valley - next!

His school project results say otherwise.

[kaydee457 13]

Well, I as an engineer would like you to name some of these "existing technologies"......I suspect that you, and others that aren't technically inclined, are ignorant of the fact that these technologies that you're referring to simply displace energy and aren't viable alternatives at all.

Many of your ilk tout Hybrid cars (feel good cars as they are sometimes referred to) but the simple fact is that for every one produced, a lot of smoke goes out the factory stack........Batteries are not yet as efficient as they need to be. Again, more energy is expended in their manufacter than you will ever recover at the gas pump. Lastly, they have a disposal problem yet to be resolved......

Windpower- ask ted kennedy about that, he's the expert.

Solar power- prohibitively expensive to manufacture without govt. subsidies- requires lots of real estate- can cause Global "cooling" if used en masse. It absorbes energy from the sun. This is not without consequence.

These are the cold facts about "alternative energy"......... It just isn't there yet! If there were a viable alternative we'd be putting in our freek'n tanks!

(LOL to you expertise claim)

How much did it cost to lay down a pipeline in Alaska, or to drill oil deep under the ocean? Keep in mind when you factor in costs, there are intangible costs that come with relying heavily on foreign oil, not to mention the environmental costs burning fossil fuels. Dismissing solar power as costing too much is ridiculous, particularly in light of how much it costs to build and maintain a nuclear power plant or how much the federal government helps out current energy providers.

Top 100 Technologies

A New Energy Congress prioritized listing of the very best energy technologies according to ten criteria, including: renewable, environmentally safe, affordable, credible, reliable, developed, and safe (among others). The New Energy Congress is an association for the purpose of reviewing the most promising claims to up-and-coming clean, renewable, affordable, reliable energy technologies, in order to come up with a weighted list of recommendations of the best technologies.

The Full List

Here's the first 20:

1. Stirling Energy Systems utility solar - 20-year purchase agreement between Southern California Edison and Stirling Energy Systems, Inc. will result in 20,000+ dish array covering 4,500 acres capable of generating 500 MW, at a cost competitive to grid power. (http://stirlingenergy.com)
2. [/size]

   ENECO Chip Converts Heat to Electricity - Utah company claims to have invented and patented a "solid state energy conversion/generation chip" that will convert heat directly into electricity or alternatively refrigerate down to -200 degrees Celsius when electricity is applied. (http://eneco.com) (NEC Specialist: Richard P. George)

3. W2 Energy Birthing Affordable, Renewable Petrol - Imagine a gasoline and diesel source that is CO2 neutral, sulfur-free, derived from renewable sources, superior in its power performance to fossil-based fuels, and costs less than 1/7 of fossil-based fuels. The company has also built an engine to optimize use of the syngas portion of the product. (http://www.w2energy.com)

4. SolarCube™ by Green and Gold Energy - Award-winning solar technology uses Fresnel lenses to focus sun's energy onto photovoltaic cells. 5.8 cents per kWh. (http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au) (NEC Specialist: Richard P. George)

5. <a href="http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Spain_wind_95x95.jpg" target="_blank">

   </a>Validated | Available for Commercial Purchase | Directory:Wind >

   Wind Farms - Wind farms present an economy of scale, enabling them to produce electricity in the price range of grid power.

6. Cool Earth Solar - Company has developed an inflatable solar concentrator technology that slashes materials costs, making solar farms competitive with commercial electricity generation systems within three years. (http://www.coolearthsolar.com) (NEC Specialist: Jon Bonanno, investor, board member)

7. EEStor Ceramic "Battery" - Texas company is working on an "energy storage" ultra-capacitor device made from ceramics. It's not technically a battery because it doesn't use chemicals. It can allegedly charge within 5 minutes (from a substation) with enough energy to move a car 500 miles on about $9 worth of electricity -- about 45 cents a gallon.

8. Nanotube Super Capacitor Battery - MIT researchers are developing a battery based on capacitors that utilize nanotubes for high surface area, enabling near instantaneous charging and no degradation. Estimating ~5 years to commercialization.

9. DayStar Technologies' Silicon-Free Solar Cells - Daystar's unique metal foil design is not vulnerable to silicon shortages. Striving to "make free energy affordable", production of this thin film design is being ramped up to 20 MW per year. (http://www.daystartech.com/)

10. Sines Reluctance Generator (Potomac Energy Projects) - Electrical generator involves thin film superconductivity, vortices and magnetic flux gates. (http://www.potomacenergyprojects.com - NEC Specialist: Eddie Sines, Inventor)

11. <a href="http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Nielson_Scientific_95x95.jpg" target="_blank">

    </a>Nelson Scientific's Electron Capture - Developing commercial method for capturing electrons for electricity. Device catches free electrons in a vacuum, where they are redirected to conductors, yielding electricity. (http://nelsonscientific.com)

12. Solar Hydrogen Energy Corporation (SHEC) - Has developed a process that will convert landfill and other waste methane into clean hydrogen, using the power of the Sun for the reformation, at a price comparable to traditional hydrogen production methods. (http://www.shec-labs.com/) (NEC Specialist: Tai Robinson)

13. Enviromission Solar Tower - Enviromission Solar Towers are like an inverted funnel, with a wide skirt to collect air to then turn a turbine in the tower. (http://www.enviromission.com.au/) (http://www.solarmissiontechnologies.com)

14. Colliding Plasma Toroid Fusion. - Electron Power Systems Ltd. is developing a process that remains stable without magnetic confinement, by using background gas pressure for confinement instead, could provide clean, non-polluting energy technology at one-tenth the cost of present energy generation. (http://electronpowersystems.com)

15. International Automated Systems - Utility scale solar presently in process of being commercially installed for first time; alleged to produce electricity at 3-5 cents per kilowatt-hour. Highly-efficient bladeless turbine has wide range of waste-heat-harnessing applications. Methanol production technique will draw CO2 out of the environment, reversing global warming. (http://IAUS.com)

16. AVA Solar to Mass Produce Low Cost Solar Panels - AVA Solar will start production next year on cadmium telluride thin film solar PV modules developed at Colorado State University. Produced at less than $1 per watt, the panels will reduce the cost of generating solar electricity to roughly the same as the conventional grid.

17. Energy/Matter Conversion Corporation - Dr. Bussard and his team at Energy/Matter Conversion Corporation, after close to 20 years of hard work, have developed a revolutionary radiation-free fusion process that takes boron-11 and fuses a proton to it, producing, in its excited state, a carbon-12 atom. This excited carbon-12 atom decays to beryllium-8 and helium-4. It was developed under a DOD contract and has recently been made public.

18. SA thin film solar eclipses others - South African solar panels consist of a thin layer approximately five microns thick (a human hair is 20 microns thick) of a unique metal alloy that converts light into energy at a fraction of the cost. The photo-responsive alloy can operate on virtually all flexible surfaces. Expected in market in 2007.

19. O'Conner Hush Energy Turbine - Arthur O'Conner of Australia has international patents on a wind turbine design that is very quiet, can operate a low speeds while tolerating high wind speeds, with a price tag that makes energy generation comparable to grid energy cost for residential and commercial applications. (http://www.hushenergy.com)

LOL to your ignorance, and you didn't answer my question. You haven't shown me any alternative sources of energy that can compete, viably, with oil. The technologies you cite are heavily subsidized by government and cannot compete with oil.

Most of them displace energy, a concept that appears lost on you due to your non-technical expertise.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

LOL to your ignorance, and you didn't answer my question. You haven't shown me any alternative sources of energy that can compete, viably, with oil. The technologies you cite are heavily subsidized by government and cannot compete with oil.

Most of them displace energy, a concept that appears lost on you due to your non-technical expertise.

"My superior expertise and experience will crush you, puny LIBERAL!"

Of course...what was I thinking, your lordship. I'll go back to rummaging through sludge.

Kaydee, there's no point in trying to convince you of anything because you've made up your mind long ago...that you are right and everyone else is wrong. What a fantastical world you must envision yourself in.

[kaydee457 13]

LOL to your ignorance, and you didn't answer my question. You haven't shown me any alternative sources of energy that can compete, viably, with oil. The technologies you cite are heavily subsidized by government and cannot compete with oil.

Most of them displace energy, a concept that appears lost on you due to your non-technical expertise.

"My superior expertise and experience will crush you, puny LIBERAL!"

Of course...what was I thinking, your lordship. I'll go back to rummaging through sludge.

Kaydee, there's no point in trying to convince you of anything because you've made up your mind long ago...that you are right and everyone else is wrong. What a fantastical world you must envision yourself in.

Here's the populist ignorant technologies you buy into.........Any first year engineering student can tell you what's wrong with this device. Let's hear your rationale as to why we're not all using the energy from this "magic" device?

BTW, this is the same old loony ####### you argued in this thread. It didn't go over there either, so why keep trying?

Mr. Fancypant's delusional energy conspiracy

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Solarbuzz Reports World Solar Photovoltaic Market Growth of 62% in 2007

2007 WORLD PV INDUSTRY REPORT HIGHLIGHTS:

World solar photovoltaic (PV) market installations reached a record high of 2,826 megawatts (MW) in 2007, representing growth of 62% over the previous year.

Germany's PV market reached 1,328 MW in 2007 and now accounts for 47% of the world market. Spain soared by over 480% to 640 MW, while the United States increased by 57% to 220 MW. It became the world's fourth largest market behind Japan, once the world leader, which declined 23% to 230 MW.

World solar cell production reached a consolidated figure of 3,436 MW in 2007, up from 2,204 MW a year earlier. Japanese producers continue to lose ground, only accounting 26% of global production. Chinese manufacturers raised their share from 20% in 2006 to 35% in 2007.

Despite polysilicon production for both solar and semiconductor use rising 30% in 2007, it remained the most capacity constrained part of the PV chain. 21 new entrants started manufacturing polysilicon during the year.

Meanwhile, thin film production more than doubled from 181 MW in 2006 to 400 MW in 2007, accounting for 12% of total PV production.

The PV industry raised nearly $10 billion in 2007. 84 identified financial transactions accounted for $7.5 billion in 2007, Of this amount, $5.3 billion came in the form of equity financing, while $2.2 billion came from debt financing.

The PV industry generated $17.2 billion in global revenues in 2007.

The 320 page report concludes with three forecast scenarios, "Balanced Energy", "Green World" and "Production Led".

The scenarios address the key issues of market growth, supply capacity expansion, pricing through the PV chain, manufacturing costs and gross margins, together with the key commercial and policy challenges that will define the pathway of this industry over the next five years.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/Marketbuzz2008-intro.htm

...

Of course there will be people like you who bury their heads in the sand rather than jump on the economic opportunities that are growing in renewable energy.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Energy Facts

For the Fiscal Year 2002, the Japanese solar roof top program received applications from 42,838 households.

Japan has taken over from the United States as the largest net exporter of PV cells and modules.

Japan accounted for around 39% of total global cell production in 2006.

Solar Energy (photovoltaic) prices have declined on average 4% per annum over the past 15 years. Progressive increase in conversion efficiencies and manufacturing economies of scale are the underlying drivers.

A residential solar energy system typically costs about $8-10 per Watt. Where government incentive programs exist, together with lower prices secured through volume purchases, installed costs as low as $3-4 watt - or some 10-12 cents per kilowatt hour can be achieved. Without incentive programs, solar energy costs (in an average sunny climate) range between 22-40 cents/kWh for very large PV systems.

Two billion people in the world have no access to electricity. For most of them, solar photovoltaics would be their cheapest electricity source, but they cannot afford it.

Approximately 45% of the cost of a silicon cell solar module is driven by the cost of the silicon wafer, a further 35% is driven by the materials required to assemble the solar module.

The United States, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and Canada were the world's five largest producers of energy in 1999, supplying 47.9 percent of the world's total energy. Worldwide oil consumption rose by slightly less than 1 million barrels per day in 2000 (vs 1999).

World energy consumption is projected to increase by 59% from 1999 to 2020. Much of the growth in worldwide energy use is expected in the developing world

http://www.solarbuzz.com/FastFactsIndustry.htm

[kaydee457 13]

Solarbuzz Reports World Solar Photovoltaic Market Growth of 62% in 2007

2007 WORLD PV INDUSTRY REPORT HIGHLIGHTS:

World solar photovoltaic (PV) market installations reached a record high of 2,826 megawatts (MW) in 2007, representing growth of 62% over the previous year.

Germany's PV market reached 1,328 MW in 2007 and now accounts for 47% of the world market. Spain soared by over 480% to 640 MW, while the United States increased by 57% to 220 MW. It became the world's fourth largest market behind Japan, once the world leader, which declined 23% to 230 MW.

World solar cell production reached a consolidated figure of 3,436 MW in 2007, up from 2,204 MW a year earlier. Japanese producers continue to lose ground, only accounting 26% of global production. Chinese manufacturers raised their share from 20% in 2006 to 35% in 2007.

Despite polysilicon production for both solar and semiconductor use rising 30% in 2007, it remained the most capacity constrained part of the PV chain. 21 new entrants started manufacturing polysilicon during the year.

Meanwhile, thin film production more than doubled from 181 MW in 2006 to 400 MW in 2007, accounting for 12% of total PV production.

The PV industry raised nearly $10 billion in 2007. 84 identified financial transactions accounted for $7.5 billion in 2007, Of this amount, $5.3 billion came in the form of equity financing, while $2.2 billion came from debt financing.

The PV industry generated $17.2 billion in global revenues in 2007.

The 320 page report concludes with three forecast scenarios, "Balanced Energy", "Green World" and "Production Led".

The scenarios address the key issues of market growth, supply capacity expansion, pricing through the PV chain, manufacturing costs and gross margins, together with the key commercial and policy challenges that will define the pathway of this industry over the next five years.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/Marketbuzz2008-intro.htm

...

Of course there will be people like you who bury their heads in the sand rather than jump on the economic opportunities that are growing in renewable energy.

Ignoring the facts again, Mr? The fact is that solar cells are not a viable energy source, and won't be anytime in our life time.

Here, I'm tired of typing the same stuff. This is not a war of attrition, MrFancypants.......

refer to my posts in this thread-

MrFancypants delusional energy conspiracy

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

nuclear is the most viable of all including oil. We just have tree huggers that don't like it. 2007 was the first approved nuclear plant approval since the 70's. It looks like they are realizing that nuclear is the only future.

[Dan J 277]

nuclear is the most viable of all including oil. We just have tree huggers that don't like it. 2007 was the first approved nuclear plant approval since the 70's. It looks like they are realizing that nuclear is the only future.

But uranium is just as finite a resource as oil. Should we be really just switching between each finite resource until we use them all up?

[GaryC 7]

nuclear is the most viable of all including oil. We just have tree huggers that don't like it. 2007 was the first approved nuclear plant approval since the 70's. It looks like they are realizing that nuclear is the only future.

But uranium is just as finite a resource as oil. Should we be really just switching between each finite resource until we use them all up?

I think we have enough to tide us over.

Availability of Usable Uranium

Uranium is present at an abundance 2 - 3 parts per million in the Earth's crust which is about 600 times greater than gold and about the same as tin. The amount of Uranium that is available is mostly a measure of the price that we're willing to pay for it. At present the cost of Natural Uranium ($165 per kg) is a small component in the price of electricity generated by Nuclear Power. At a price of $US110 per kg the known reserves amount to about 85 years supply at the current level of consumption with an expected further 500 years supply in additional or speculative reserves. The price of Uranium would have to increase by over a factor of 3 before it would have an impact of the cost of electricity generated from Nuclear Power. Such a price rise would stimulate a substantial increase in exploration activities with a consequent increase in the size of the resource (as has been the case with every other mineral of value). The price of Uranium rose to a peak of over 300/kg in 2007 but has since declined to $165 by early 2008.. The world reserves of Uranium have increased by around 50% since the end of 2003.

However advanced technologies are being developed which are far more efficient in their use of Uranium or which utilize Thorium which is 3 times more abundant than Uranium. If perfected these technologies can make use of both the spent fuel from current nuclear reactors and the depleted Uranium stocks used for enrichment. Taken together these provide enough fuel for many centuries of energy production. This will mitigate the demand for newly mined Uranium.

http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHom...OfUsableUranium

[Dan J 277]

nuclear is the most viable of all including oil. We just have tree huggers that don't like it. 2007 was the first approved nuclear plant approval since the 70's. It looks like they are realizing that nuclear is the only future.

But uranium is just as finite a resource as oil. Should we be really just switching between each finite resource until we use them all up?

I think we have enough to tide us over.

Availability of Usable Uranium

Uranium is present at an abundance 2 - 3 parts per million in the Earth's crust which is about 600 times greater than gold and about the same as tin. The amount of Uranium that is available is mostly a measure of the price that we're willing to pay for it. At present the cost of Natural Uranium ($165 per kg) is a small component in the price of electricity generated by Nuclear Power. At a price of $US110 per kg the known reserves amount to about 85 years supply at the current level of consumption with an expected further 500 years supply in additional or speculative reserves. The price of Uranium would have to increase by over a factor of 3 before it would have an impact of the cost of electricity generated from Nuclear Power. Such a price rise would stimulate a substantial increase in exploration activities with a consequent increase in the size of the resource (as has been the case with every other mineral of value). The price of Uranium rose to a peak of over 300/kg in 2007 but has since declined to $165 by early 2008.. The world reserves of Uranium have increased by around 50% since the end of 2003.

However advanced technologies are being developed which are far more efficient in their use of Uranium or which utilize Thorium which is 3 times more abundant than Uranium. If perfected these technologies can make use of both the spent fuel from current nuclear reactors and the depleted Uranium stocks used for enrichment. Taken together these provide enough fuel for many centuries of energy production. This will mitigate the demand for newly mined Uranium.

http://nuclearinfo.net/Nuclearpower/WebHom...OfUsableUranium

The key is at current consumption. But nuclear power only makes up a small portion of our energy needs at this time. But we were talking about expanding nuclear power.

[Heracles 417]

Ignoring the facts again, Mr? The fact is that solar cells are not a viable energy source, and won't be anytime in our life time.

Here, I'm tired of typing the same stuff. This is not a war of attrition, MrFancypants.......

Most solar power energy has to be stored in batteries for off-peak use. I wonder if he has seen the carbon footprint of batteries.

Plus look at how ugly this is: