11 Students Plotted To Kill Third-Grade Teacher

[Traviesa 0]

I think it's a lot less likely that all 11 students in this situation had terrible abusive parents, and more likely that they watch the same tv/movies, listen to the same music, etc. Bad parenting can definitely be a cause for mental illness and bad behavior but many times it's not.

[Traviesa 0]

You don't have to look far outside your own personal circle to see examples of how kids and their behavior and the family in general have changed. Things I see my friends' toddlers getting away with would have not been acceptable behaviors for me and I would have been punished. I also was not thought to be cute or laughed at if I said a swear word. To say kids today are no different or no worse than kids used to be is just denial imo.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Without more information, we really have no idea what went on. All we know is some kids had some kind of plot to 'kill' a teacher. However, it's not at all clear that they would have carried out this plot, despite the presence of a knife and handcuffs. It's one thing to think you hate someone enough to kill them (at 9 years old, these manifestations of 'hatred' are quite common) and quite another to start cutting one up.

If one pretends that kids have never had these fantasies in the past then of course there is going to be some 'shock horror' at the 'state of kids today' However, while I don't remember having any plans to kill anyone, I can certainly remember those feelings of rage and hatred that one feels as a kid as one learns to deal with strong emotions and one starts to understand that there are things one is obliged to do apart from play all day.

I guess no one today reads books like 'The Lord of the Flies'. Maybe they're all banned?

Good point.

The last line of the article mentions "criminal charges"... I wonder about that. Its problematic enough as it is to try kids as adults, given that, if anything, its their maturity that is most in question.

[Peikko 1,575]

So, bad parenting is a new thing then? I guess Oliver Twist didn't get that memo.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So, bad parenting is a new thing then? I guess Oliver Twist didn't get that memo.

If a parent is allow young children to watch inappropriate movies and TV - that's hardly "responsible".

[Traviesa 0]

Bad parenting is not new, but it's more prevalent.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bad parenting is not new, but it's more prevalent.

Well...Is it?

That might be the impression conveyed by the news - but that's not quite the same thing.

[Heracles 417]

Without more information, we really have no idea what went on. All we know is some kids had some kind of plot to 'kill' a teacher. However, it's not at all clear that they would have carried out this plot, despite the presence of a knife and handcuffs. It's one thing to think you hate someone enough to kill them (at 9 years old, these manifestations of 'hatred' are quite common) and quite another to start cutting one up.

If one pretends that kids have never had these fantasies in the past then of course there is going to be some 'shock horror' at the 'state of kids today' However, while I don't remember having any plans to kill anyone, I can certainly remember those feelings of rage and hatred that one feels as a kid as one learns to deal with strong emotions and one starts to understand that there are things one is obliged to do apart from play all day.

I guess no one today reads books like 'The Lord of the Flies'. Maybe they're all banned?

The human species have never had such easy access to on-demand violence and horror. There are also a number of studies linking the exposure to violence affecting a child perception of it.

I don't know of any kids that have had fantasies of killing their teacher in the 3rd grade. Especially not in my generation.

Also if exposure to horror and violence is not an issue then why is it that these films are restricted to 18+, if not banned, in lots of other nations; such as the UK, Canada and Australia.

Bad parenting is not new, but it's more prevalent.

Well...Is it?

That might be the impression conveyed by the news - but that's not quite the same thing.

Which news station is that. Maybe they all get together and collaborate on the news stories they are going to show. Maybe they made this story up.

You and PH needs to get you head out of your ###..

[Peikko 1,575]

My point is, that there have always been a percentage of bad parents, and in fact the percentage of bad parents has probably reduced over the last 200 years or so because of increased wealth and education. The examples of what constitutes bad parenting have of course changed but that doesn't make it a new thing.

Again, we don't know how serious this 'plot to kill' was. We don't know what instigated it beyond some suggestion that it might have to do with a previous punishment, but that really doesn't give enough information to evaluate that these are psychopathic kids who need to be locked up and their parents flogged. You can speculate all day long that it's down to the evils of tv and video games but you'll be no nearer to knowing the truth.

[Heracles 417]

So, bad parenting is a new thing then? I guess Oliver Twist didn't get that memo.

Not a new thing but irresponsible parenting is definitely more widespread in todays society. Oh wait I better not bring any anecdotal evidence up. After all, for example, what would someone who has been teaching for over 38 years know.

[Heracles 417]

My point is, that there have always been a percentage of bad parents, and in fact the percentage of bad parents has probably reduced over the last 200 years or so because of increased wealth and education. The examples of what constitutes bad parenting have of course changed but that doesn't make it a new thing.

Again, we don't know how serious this 'plot to kill' was. We don't know what instigated it beyond some suggestion that it might have to do with a previous punishment, but that really doesn't give enough information to evaluate that these are psychopathic kids who need to be locked up and their parents flogged. You can speculate all day long that it's down to the evils of tv and video games but you'll be no nearer to knowing the truth.

I agree. I just personally think that irresponsible parenting is much more rampant in 2008 than lets say 40 years ago.

The reason these sort of cases raise an eyebrow is that they are much more common than in the past. And that is not the media's fault.

[Peikko 1,575]

Here's the thing BY, plotting to kill a teacher is not a common phenomena so trying to estimate whether this has ever happened in the past based on your own personal experience is rather futile.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Which news station is that. Maybe they all get together and collaborate on the news stories they are going to show. Maybe they made this story up.

You and PH needs to get you head out of your ###..

Hold your horse's there Boyo.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

We should label them enemy combatants and send them to Gitmo...they'll make 'em talk.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The human species have never had such easy access to on-demand violence and horror. There are also a number of studies linking the exposure to violence affecting a child perception of it.

I don't know of any kids that have had fantasies of killing their teacher in the 3rd grade. Especially not in my generation.

Also if exposure to horror and violence is not an issue then why is it that these films are restricted to 18+, if not banned, in lots of other nations; such as the UK, Canada and Australia.

Film ratings provide a guide to the content included in a film - not much else. When you're looking at say, the BBFC cutting out headbutt shots out of movies like The Matrix and Spiderman 2, that's hardly a scientific standard. Cuts are arbitrary for all we know.

As it stands we know nothing about the kids involved in the article - beyond what was reported, we know nothing about their family backgrounds and we know nothing about their media consumption preferences.

So what can be drawn from this? Not a lot. IMO.

Edited April 1, 2008 by Number 6