Tell me its not me

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

well im going to dive into this one no matter what happens ........and yup it is not the same as a married person going thru it but here goes..........

when we moved to pakistan the first two or three months was great.....it was fun to see and do different things but when it got past six months

all of us became sort of with drawn and crabby........why?

every time someone in our family would have a birthday that was not with us it made us sad..........we missed our friends back home.....we missed some of the life we had back home........its hard to adjust to a new life.......after four years when we came back to the USA we went thru the same thing because we had family there that we missed........there was also part of our family there that we would miss the holidays ......different things that we would do that were special.......friends we had made in pakistan as well........its difficult to adjust to a life away from people that have been ur friends and family.....and u do get with drawn and u do get angry........and sometimes ur depressed.........yes yes i know its not the same but in away it is because its still going thru some of the same feelings he is probably going thru......it does not mean its right for him to be rude or with drawn but we know it happens cuz we went thru it our selfs ........anyway thats what i think about it and i would not be fast to jump to the conclusion that he was doing something that was not right.......

In light of the lunacy going on in the next thread DIVORCE IN ORDER.. I am rethinking about 20 of my responses

[sara..... 371]

omg I just checked it to see what u were talking about mmmm i have absolutely nothing to say lol sorry that one is way over my head .......and if it wasn't i still would stay silent lol

[allousa 1]

Your situation is NOT the situation of many of the people on the boards. You have a relationship born in the USA with someone who was already familiar with american culture , traditions and all and all was truly in love with you. He got stuck back home and in between, he created a baby with you. You have a real love story, karma or not, your love was bigger than the seperation.

As hard as it is for any of us to fathom or deal with, there is a high level of fraud going through several mena countries which is why there is such a horrific level of visa fraud and ridiculous APs. The consulates know something that maybe none of us want to deal with and admit. People will feign love and affection to get into this country, take advantage of vulnerable lonely people, entire families have been in on it ( read some of last weeks posts) In light of the high level of marriage fraud perpetrated on Americans and many westerners, the importance of posts like this and forums like this is to have dialog and talk through things. Does this mean that everyone experiences this? No. Is this subject constantly surpressed? Yes. To admit that it takes place somehow demeans people from these countries. You have to look at statistics and the behavior or certain consulates. Without a high preponderance of fraud, the consulates would not be taking the action that they are.

The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster. To tell them that its all "stress" or adjustment issues on the part of the sponsored person is pure bunk to. This is placing blame on the petitioner that somehow if she made her home more welcoming or was helping him adjust better, that he would behave himself better. There is a level of what we should expect of them to. We should expect them to help us around the house. To help us with bills. For them to get a job when they get their work permit. To help with cooking and household things... No one would cut an American woman slack if we moved over there. We would be cooking cous cous and cooking lamb. Yet somehow everyone is advocating the sponsor to put up with ludricrous behavior. The men coming over here are adults and depressed or not, when you are married you need to be nice to your spouse and kind. Depression is NOT AN EXCUSE for not being loving , helpful and supportive. Thats a bunch of bunk. There are people drowning every trying to go to spain washing up with bloated bodies alll across the shores of North Africa , dying to be in a free market economy . These women that sponsored these men went through hell to get them here , some of them.... and thousands in phone bills and plane tickets etc... At least depressed or not , the guy can be kind to Terrie. This depression stuff is a bunch of bunk.

I just don't even know where to start.....

First of all, while my situation may be somewhat unique on these boards, the setting of boundaries in a relationship is NOT unique and should be applied to ALL relationships. I would think women establishing relationships online should be even MORE wary.

I don't in ANY WAY deny that there are men/women out there (not just in MENA either) that pray on people willing enough to help them. But lets be honest here....who is ultimately responsible for entering into a relationship. I don't mean to be cruel in any way, but when a person chooses to develop a relationship with someone ONLINE of a completely different culture in a far away place, it's a roll of the dice. Hell, it was a roll of the dice starting a relationship with my husband and we met in person IN THE STATES! I just know the tears and the fights that we went through trying to build a relationship on our cultural differences. I cannot imagine doing that with a person that I can't see or touch. As much as one can be in love with another person, if you continue to supress feelings of resentment or feelings of being treated unfairly, that WILL rear it's ugly head one way or another. Based on my OWN experience of previous relationships, the signs of potential problems ARE there...you just have to be honest enough with yourself to see them.

"The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster"....

The majority of the suggestions you have made could not be further from "positive". In fact, they border on malicious. I get that you have been burned terribly by previous relationships. But suggesting that someone take malicious actions against their SO can potentially be putting them in a very dangerous situation. For example, say one of the posters decides to use "spyware" against their SO. How do you know that he won't become so angry that he retalitates in someway. This is what I mean by saying that you NEED to be responsible about what you are suggesting.

Lastly, I NEVER suggested that any of these SOs get a "free ride" because of depression. Certainly SOs have a responsiblity to contribute to a relationship. But expecting life to be a honeymoon when they first get here is raising the bar to near impossiblity. It has been a tough adjustment for my husband and I since he got here. And yes, he's had some difficulty because he is missing his family. I take that into consideration when we have disagreements. Just as he did when I lost my father and was very depressed and moody. AGAIN, unless you have PERSONAL knowledge of someone's situation, you cannot make sweeping generalizations about what YOU think is right or wrong.

In no way do I mean for my comments to be malicious towards you or anyone else reading them. Just giving my more than 2 cents about the situation.

[morocco4ever 63]

I hope things get figured out Terrie.

Just like others here, my husband did have some depression at about 6 months. He did get distant and it was not easy for either of us. I am lucky in the fact that my husband was open and honest with me about how he was feeling. He still felt it, but I understood. I can't even begin to tell you how many times he searched for tickets to go back home. Just yesterday my husband talked to his mom on the phone and I could see the sad come back for awhile. Keep in mind however, some men are not so open with their feelings.

No one knows you and your husbands situation better than you do, so you will be the best judge on if this is depression or something more. I hope that is all it is, and that he shares his feelings with you. I don't want to give you Polly Anna advice as some here worries about, but just don't rule that out either. Sometimes it is actually easier to blame things on fraud since it is such a real concern for anyone that marries someone from another country.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Your situation is NOT the situation of many of the people on the boards. You have a relationship born in the USA with someone who was already familiar with american culture , traditions and all and all was truly in love with you. He got stuck back home and in between, he created a baby with you. You have a real love story, karma or not, your love was bigger than the seperation.

As hard as it is for any of us to fathom or deal with, there is a high level of fraud going through several mena countries which is why there is such a horrific level of visa fraud and ridiculous APs. The consulates know something that maybe none of us want to deal with and admit. People will feign love and affection to get into this country, take advantage of vulnerable lonely people, entire families have been in on it ( read some of last weeks posts) In light of the high level of marriage fraud perpetrated on Americans and many westerners, the importance of posts like this and forums like this is to have dialog and talk through things. Does this mean that everyone experiences this? No. Is this subject constantly surpressed? Yes. To admit that it takes place somehow demeans people from these countries. You have to look at statistics and the behavior or certain consulates. Without a high preponderance of fraud, the consulates would not be taking the action that they are.

The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster. To tell them that its all "stress" or adjustment issues on the part of the sponsored person is pure bunk to. This is placing blame on the petitioner that somehow if she made her home more welcoming or was helping him adjust better, that he would behave himself better. There is a level of what we should expect of them to. We should expect them to help us around the house. To help us with bills. For them to get a job when they get their work permit. To help with cooking and household things... No one would cut an American woman slack if we moved over there. We would be cooking cous cous and cooking lamb. Yet somehow everyone is advocating the sponsor to put up with ludricrous behavior. The men coming over here are adults and depressed or not, when you are married you need to be nice to your spouse and kind. Depression is NOT AN EXCUSE for not being loving , helpful and supportive. Thats a bunch of bunk. There are people drowning every trying to go to spain washing up with bloated bodies alll across the shores of North Africa , dying to be in a free market economy . These women that sponsored these men went through hell to get them here , some of them.... and thousands in phone bills and plane tickets etc... At least depressed or not , the guy can be kind to Terrie. This depression stuff is a bunch of bunk.

I just don't even know where to start.....

First of all, while my situation may be somewhat unique on these boards, the setting of boundaries in a relationship is NOT unique and should be applied to ALL relationships. I would think women establishing relationships online should be even MORE wary.

I don't in ANY WAY deny that there are men/women out there (not just in MENA either) that pray on people willing enough to help them. But lets be honest here....who is ultimately responsible for entering into a relationship. I don't mean to be cruel in any way, but when a person chooses to develop a relationship with someone ONLINE of a completely different culture in a far away place, it's a roll of the dice. Hell, it was a roll of the dice starting a relationship with my husband and we met in person IN THE STATES! I just know the tears and the fights that we went through trying to build a relationship on our cultural differences. I cannot imagine doing that with a person that I can't see or touch. As much as one can be in love with another person, if you continue to supress feelings of resentment or feelings of being treated unfairly, that WILL rear it's ugly head one way or another. Based on my OWN experience of previous relationships, the signs of potential problems ARE there...you just have to be honest enough with yourself to see them.

"The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster"....

The majority of the suggestions you have made could not be further from "positive". In fact, they border on malicious. I get that you have been burned terribly by previous relationships. But suggesting that someone take malicious actions against their SO can potentially be putting them in a very dangerous situation. For example, say one of the posters decides to use "spyware" against their SO. How do you know that he won't become so angry that he retalitates in someway. This is what I mean by saying that you NEED to be responsible about what you are suggesting.

Lastly, I NEVER suggested that any of these SOs get a "free ride" because of depression. Certainly SOs have a responsiblity to contribute to a relationship. But expecting life to be a honeymoon when they first get here is raising the bar to near impossiblity. It has been a tough adjustment for my husband and I since he got here. And yes, he's had some difficulty because he is missing his family. I take that into consideration when we have disagreements. Just as he did when I lost my father and was very depressed and moody. AGAIN, unless you have PERSONAL knowledge of someone's situation, you cannot make sweeping generalizations about what YOU think is right or wrong.

In no way do I mean for my comments to be malicious towards you or anyone else reading them. Just giving my more than 2 cents about the situation.

I think you are right about so much. I think also the men brought over here may have bit off more than they could chew not knowing exactly who or what they married over here and the baggage she was carrying before he got here. Its a two way street. I think the spyware solution is a bit much but at least its a tool if someone is really not happy with the internet usage of their spouse and feels like they are getting taken. Seeing stuff on the computer several years ago shocked me into reality and helped me make decisions. I do stand by what I say that these guys do need to buck up and deal with things. We give them alot of leeway and the reality is we are the sponsors are carrying some massive loads financially and emotionally... many of us paid for the attorneys , the tickets, the planes and tons of other thing and have to keep our jobs and our lives together here and going. I am going to be honest with, I am pregnant and have a small child. I need to be loved and looked after. I really will not be able to tolerate too much cojoling of him and his feelings. He is going to have to be a man in the house and help me and be there for me cause frankly after over a year and a half of shouldering everything in this process alone and then asthmatic in a high risk pregnancy, if my husband sat online and chatted or sat around sulking and not helping and doing things with me or being at least cordial ( not screaming hello from the other room) I will not be able to deal with it. I have to do too much to keep my life going from day to day. While I appreciate you so much Allousa, there comes a time when people have to buck up and suck it up and be MEN. We are not their moms. Depression is one thing. Ungratefulness and sulleness and making everyones life hell is another ( not really this poster but several others over the last 2 months.) I need help at this point. My patience for sulking is NILL and you would understand this if you saw how much I have had to endure medically these last 3 months. I am a really patient person in real life with friends and my children and my family but there comes a times when people have to grow up and be men..

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Terrie,

I just saw that your husband has been here about 4 months. This is about the time when the homesickness and everything really sets in hard. I think that as a lot of it might have to do with this. Is he working? Is he in the house all day? Does he have friends or anyone other than you to socialize with? Is he withdrawing? He may be suffering some big time depression, that really has little to do with his feelings towards you but more just with himself and the feelings he is dealing with. A lot of times I believe that once people get here they realize that life is not what it was pumped up at home to be. The streets aren't paved in gold. People work long and hard hours to get what they have. Couple in a cold Wisconsin winter full of snow - and well you know Cabin fever doesn't help either! My husband moved here in January to WI, it was cold, dark and snowy and boy did that reflect in his mood after a few months. My advice:

1) Have a talk with him about how he is feeling, leave you out of this to begin with and just focus on him. Give him the chance to tell you. Men in their culture aren't very good with feelings (at least from my experience) so it will take time for him to be able to tell you how he is feeling.

2) I'm pretty sure he's missing home. Start talking about planning a visit. Discuss how you want to start putting money aside. Perhaps you can start buying gifts here and there when you find them on sale. I found that planning for the future, even if you can't set an exact date really helped my husband deal with his homesickness.

3) Plan and find things in the area to do. Maybe it's a weekend trip to the zoo in Milwaukee, or a Brewers game, see if there are things at the University for free or cheap (plays, music performances etc.)

4) Classes - is he enrolled in ESL? Does he have interests that he could take a class in like art or photography? There are continuing ed courses in these things that are a good excuse to get out of the house and participate.

5)Access - Can he drive? If not does he have a bus pass or another way to get around? Limited mobility is a big mood dampener!

Those are 5 things I can think of. Try not to argue too much, ignore him instead. If he's in a foul mood just let it be even if it makes you want to scream until the cows come home. He'll realize what he's doing! Give it some time (a few months at least) and see if his mood is changing at all.

Very intelligent,rational advise!

Every relationship has ups and downs and everyone deals with stress differently.. it doesnt always make it ok, but getting to the bottom of it will certainly be a starting point towards a solution

Lisa

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Your situation is NOT the situation of many of the people on the boards. You have a relationship born in the USA with someone who was already familiar with american culture , traditions and all and all was truly in love with you. He got stuck back home and in between, he created a baby with you. You have a real love story, karma or not, your love was bigger than the seperation.

As hard as it is for any of us to fathom or deal with, there is a high level of fraud going through several mena countries which is why there is such a horrific level of visa fraud and ridiculous APs. The consulates know something that maybe none of us want to deal with and admit. People will feign love and affection to get into this country, take advantage of vulnerable lonely people, entire families have been in on it ( read some of last weeks posts) In light of the high level of marriage fraud perpetrated on Americans and many westerners, the importance of posts like this and forums like this is to have dialog and talk through things. Does this mean that everyone experiences this? No. Is this subject constantly surpressed? Yes. To admit that it takes place somehow demeans people from these countries. You have to look at statistics and the behavior or certain consulates. Without a high preponderance of fraud, the consulates would not be taking the action that they are.

The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster. To tell them that its all "stress" or adjustment issues on the part of the sponsored person is pure bunk to. This is placing blame on the petitioner that somehow if she made her home more welcoming or was helping him adjust better, that he would behave himself better. There is a level of what we should expect of them to. We should expect them to help us around the house. To help us with bills. For them to get a job when they get their work permit. To help with cooking and household things... No one would cut an American woman slack if we moved over there. We would be cooking cous cous and cooking lamb. Yet somehow everyone is advocating the sponsor to put up with ludricrous behavior. The men coming over here are adults and depressed or not, when you are married you need to be nice to your spouse and kind. Depression is NOT AN EXCUSE for not being loving , helpful and supportive. Thats a bunch of bunk. There are people drowning every trying to go to spain washing up with bloated bodies alll across the shores of North Africa , dying to be in a free market economy . These women that sponsored these men went through hell to get them here , some of them.... and thousands in phone bills and plane tickets etc... At least depressed or not , the guy can be kind to Terrie. This depression stuff is a bunch of bunk.

I just don't even know where to start.....

First of all, while my situation may be somewhat unique on these boards, the setting of boundaries in a relationship is NOT unique and should be applied to ALL relationships. I would think women establishing relationships online should be even MORE wary.

I don't in ANY WAY deny that there are men/women out there (not just in MENA either) that pray on people willing enough to help them. But lets be honest here....who is ultimately responsible for entering into a relationship. I don't mean to be cruel in any way, but when a person chooses to develop a relationship with someone ONLINE of a completely different culture in a far away place, it's a roll of the dice. Hell, it was a roll of the dice starting a relationship with my husband and we met in person IN THE STATES! I just know the tears and the fights that we went through trying to build a relationship on our cultural differences. I cannot imagine doing that with a person that I can't see or touch. As much as one can be in love with another person, if you continue to supress feelings of resentment or feelings of being treated unfairly, that WILL rear it's ugly head one way or another. Based on my OWN experience of previous relationships, the signs of potential problems ARE there...you just have to be honest enough with yourself to see them.

"The important thing is to offer the most postive suggestions you can without dismissing the genuine fears and concerns of the poster"....

The majority of the suggestions you have made could not be further from "positive". In fact, they border on malicious. I get that you have been burned terribly by previous relationships. But suggesting that someone take malicious actions against their SO can potentially be putting them in a very dangerous situation. For example, say one of the posters decides to use "spyware" against their SO. How do you know that he won't become so angry that he retalitates in someway. This is what I mean by saying that you NEED to be responsible about what you are suggesting.

Lastly, I NEVER suggested that any of these SOs get a "free ride" because of depression. Certainly SOs have a responsiblity to contribute to a relationship. But expecting life to be a honeymoon when they first get here is raising the bar to near impossiblity. It has been a tough adjustment for my husband and I since he got here. And yes, he's had some difficulty because he is missing his family. I take that into consideration when we have disagreements. Just as he did when I lost my father and was very depressed and moody. AGAIN, unless you have PERSONAL knowledge of someone's situation, you cannot make sweeping generalizations about what YOU think is right or wrong.

In no way do I mean for my comments to be malicious towards you or anyone else reading them. Just giving my more than 2 cents about the situation.

I think you are right about so much. I think also the men brought over here may have bit off more than they could chew not knowing exactly who or what they married over here and the baggage she was carrying before he got here. Its a two way street. I think the spyware solution is a bit much but at least its a tool if someone is really not happy with the internet usage of their spouse and feels like they are getting taken. Seeing stuff on the computer several years ago shocked me into reality and helped me make decisions. I do stand by what I say that these guys do need to buck up and deal with things. We give them alot of leeway and the reality is we are the sponsors are carrying some massive loads financially and emotionally... many of us paid for the attorneys , the tickets, the planes and tons of other thing and have to keep our jobs and our lives together here and going. I am going to be honest with, I am pregnant and have a small child. I need to be loved and looked after. I really will not be able to tolerate too much cojoling of him and his feelings. He is going to have to be a man in the house and help me and be there for me cause frankly after over a year and a half of shouldering everything in this process alone and then asthmatic in a high risk pregnancy, if my husband sat online and chatted or sat around sulking and not helping and doing things with me or being at least cordial ( not screaming hello from the other room) I will not be able to deal with it. I have to do too much to keep my life going from day to day. While I appreciate you so much Allousa, there comes a time when people have to buck up and suck it up and be MEN. We are not their moms. Depression is one thing. Ungratefulness and sulleness and making everyones life hell is another ( not really this poster but several others over the last 2 months.) I need help at this point. My patience for sulking is NILL and you would understand this if you saw how much I have had to endure medically these last 3 months. I am a really patient person in real life with friends and my children and my family but there comes a times when people have to grow up and be men..

Not really much to do with this but.... this has been bothering me, and I think it is worth looking at:

I noticed a few women (and men I guess) take the attitude of I did this for you. If you truly feel like that, it will show... no one wants to be reminded of what you have done for them. Who wants to feel indebted for life? Especially a man. Yes, because they feel like they should take care of us.

You go through the process because you love the person, and want to be with them. So this general attitude is toxic IMO.

Now, that said.. I agree that if someone doesnt want to get in the solution.. then shut up and deal with it! "Nut up" if you will lol

I had a friend years ago that would call every other day and complain about her boyfriend, I would say.. bla bla bla... she would say "ya,but" ENOUGH! deal with the situation at hand, get help,seek counseling or shut the F up. I finally had to say just that to her.

So yes.. I get your point on that W. If solutions have been offered, then take em or get on with life.

Lisa

[allousa 1]

W - I totally agree that our SOs need to "tow" the line. I've definitely made sure my husband knows how difficult the past two years raising our son on my own has been...mentally, physically AND financially. Our approach to our relationship is an equal partnership. We are very open about our feelings and have made a promise that if either one of us feels they are being treated unfairly, we speak up!

My motto is also....PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!