Being a liberal on VJ!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

If your a Liberal on this forum you definately have an advantage. The more your party fights amoungst each other the more pissssst you get. Want some change? The love affair between Hillary and Barrack pretty much says it all. Sooooo much LOVE between them. Fckin preachin "LOVE" all the while Hatin

HYPOCRISY!

And as a bonus Political Correctness prevents liberals from being honest. I love it!!!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Far right on the other hand... That's rather more noticeable. For a European.

On the other head we don't really have politicians like Le Pen or Haider taken that seriously in this country

[Peikko 1,575]

If your a Liberal on this forum you definately have an advantage. The more your party fights amoungst each other the more pissssst you get. Want some change? The love affair between Hillary and Barrack pretty much says it all. Sooooo much LOVE between them. Fckin preachin "LOVE" all the while Hatin

HYPOCRISY!

And as a bonus Political Correctness prevents liberals from being honest. I love it!!!

I see this is an example of critical thinking and logical reasoning that those on the right of the political spectrum claim to have a monopoly on.

[HAL 9000 96]

Well, can someone explain American Political Liberalism to me then? Quite honestly, I have no idea what it is meant to be other than a mish mash of ideas that seem to have no context and an object of hate by some people who seem to hate anyone who doesn't think like they do.

Ooops, an unnecessary don't there.

It doesn't really exist other than being a label for not so conservative conservatives.

The day a true liberal government is elected in the US will be the day the top 5% of the population will continue being the top 5%, just that the rest of us will begin to live a little closer to them in terms of wealth. Pretty much it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes, i can quite see why being labeled liberal is something to be ashamed of.

Marc is on a holy crusade to expose all liberals for their hypocritic ways...because hypocrisy only happens when you are liberal. He hasn't reached his own Enlightenment to the reality that hypocrisy exists among even the holiest of holy Republicans.

hy·poc·ri·sy

1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

...

Mark Foley

U.S. Representative

(September 28, 2006)

The Crime: Sending sexually laced, gramatically challenged instant messages and e-mails to teenaged boys in the Congressional page program for more than 10 years.

The Hypocrisy: Chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. One of the foremost opponents of child pornography in the Senate.

The Quote: “get a ruler and measure it for me”

....

Ted Haggard

Leader of the National Association of Evangelicals

(November 2006)

The Crime: Paying male prostitutes for sex and snorting crystal meth.

The Hypocrisy: A powerful force in the evangelical movement, Haggard participated in weekly meetings with President George Bush and top advisors where he gave spiritual advice. He taught that homosexuality was an abomination and actively lobbied against gay rights.

The Quote: “I did not have a homosexual relationship with a man in Denver.”

....

Larry Craig

U.S. Senator

Senate Liason for Mitt Romney’s Presidential Campaign

(June 11, 2007)

The Crime: Soliciting sex from an undercover cop in an airport bathroom

The Hypocrisy: Craig twice voted against adding the words “sexual orientation” to the federal hate crimes law. Craig also voted to give states the right to refuse to recognize gay marriage–a right they already had, but the Senator wanted to really, really prove he didn’t like gay people.

The Quote: “I am not gay, I don’t do these kinds of things.”

....

Bob Allen

Member of the Florida House of Representatives

Florida Chairman of John McCain’s Presidential Campaign

(July 11, 2007)

The Crime: Offering an undercover cop $20 to allow Allen to blow him in a men’s room in a public park. After being arrested, Allen tried to explain that he only offered to blow the cop because the cop was a “burly black man” and he “didn’t want to become a statistic.”

The Hypocrisy: Allen was one of 21 Florida legislators to sign Gov. Jeb Bush’s friend-of-the-court brief supporting the state’s ban on gays adopting children, and he co-sponsored an unsuccessful bill that would have enhanced penalties for “offenses involving unnatural and lascivious acts” such as indecent exposure.

The Quote: “I certainly wasn’t there to have sex with anybody and certainly wasn’t there to exchange money for it.”

.....

Glenn Murphy Jr.

National Chairman of the Young Republicans

Chairman of the Clark County Republican Party

(July 28, 2007)

The Crime: Murphy got a fellow Young Republican drunk and then spent the night at his house. The other young man woke up in the middle of the night to find Murphy giving him mouth-to-####### resuscitation. After this incident, a 1998 sexual battery report came to light in which Murphy was alleged to have done the exact same thing.

The Hypocrisy: Murphy was a well-paid political consultant for Republican candidates and often advised them to use gay marriage as a wedge issue to paint their opponents as out of touch with traditional values.

The Quote: “I was in the Sound of Music in High School…don’t ask” (from his now-defunct Myspace page.)

http://www.badmouth.net/top-five-republica...y-sex-scandals/

You forgot the conservative hypocrite kingpin: Rush Limbaugh.

Send them up the river too!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Far right on the other hand... That's rather more noticeable. For a European.

On the other head we don't really have politicians like Le Pen or Haider taken that seriously in this country

I dunno - Strom Thurmond used to do pretty well. And pretty much everyone is involved in church groups of varying degrees of fundamentalism.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If your a Liberal on this forum you definately have an advantage. The more your party fights amoungst each other the more pissssst you get. Want some change? The love affair between Hillary and Barrack pretty much says it all. Sooooo much LOVE between them. Fckin preachin "LOVE" all the while Hatin

HYPOCRISY!

And as a bonus Political Correctness prevents liberals from being honest. I love it!!!

I see this is an example of critical thinking and logical reasoning that those on the right of the political spectrum claim to have a monopoly on.

Yeah its not like Political Correctness has avowed social conservatives bemoaning the lack of a "white pride day" or anything like that .

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Far right on the other hand... That's rather more noticeable. For a European.

On the other head we don't really have politicians like Le Pen or Haider taken that seriously in this country

I dunno - Strom Thurmond used to do pretty well. And pretty much everyone is involved in church groups of varying degrees of fundamentalism.

Strom Thurmond was not the leader of his party. You have religous funadmentalist here you have scary nationalists over there. I don't buy that far right ideology is some how absent from European politics.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Far right on the other hand... That's rather more noticeable. For a European.

On the other head we don't really have politicians like Le Pen or Haider taken that seriously in this country

I dunno - Strom Thurmond used to do pretty well. And pretty much everyone is involved in church groups of varying degrees of fundamentalism.

Strom Thurmond was not the leader of his party. You have religous funadmentalist here you have scary nationalists over there. I don't buy that far right ideology is some how absent from European politics.

I didn't say it was absent - just that I notice it more in the US because the entire political spectrum here is further to the right.

[SaadBell 0]

I am curious when I see someone on this forum stating they are conservatives. You are on a forum that is about immigration, you do know that straight line conservatives don’t like you marrying outside the good old USA. I live in the Bible belt south, and the good old boys, all conservatives, would not welcome you in to their group, because you go against everything they believe. So how do you handle the immigration issue? Do you think we should tighten up the borders; are there certain countries that don’t qualify? These are the questions I wonder about?

[Fandango 1,439]

I am curious when I see someone on this forum stating they are conservatives. You are on a forum that is about immigration, you do know that straight line conservatives don’t like you marrying outside the good old USA. I live in the Bible belt south, and the good old boys, all conservatives, would not welcome you in to their group, because you go against everything they believe. So how do you handle the immigration issue? Do you think we should tighten up the borders; are there certain countries that don’t qualify? These are the questions I wonder about?

I think most are agreed any political viewpoint on a whole is not one homogeneous 'this is what you believe, welcome to the __________ party' thing.

As far as the immigration issue...as far as illegal/legal...there is a plethora of threads on here for you to read which precisely spells out many members' opinions.

You can be a conservative, mind you, without being a racist or xenophobic good ol Southern boy, btw.

[GabiandVi 34]

I am curious when I see someone on this forum stating they are conservatives. You are on a forum that is about immigration, you do know that straight line conservatives don’t like you marrying outside the good old USA. I live in the Bible belt south, and the good old boys, all conservatives, would not welcome you in to their group, because you go against everything they believe. So how do you handle the immigration issue? Do you think we should tighten up the borders; are there certain countries that don’t qualify? These are the questions I wonder about?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to step up here and point out that this is the kind of dismissive prejudiced generalizations that conservatives are accused of making - that you, by this post, are accusing them of making while in the same breath making yourself. Furthermore, it is absolutely the opposite of true. Conservatives are not against immigration. Illegal immigration? Yes, but I would think anyone on VJ would be against illegal immigration.

I'm not from the Bible Belt, but it was the Bible Belt that sponsored the most "boat people" during the 70s and 80s. I could go on, but I won't.

[SaadBell 0]

I just never met a serious conservative that believed in any kind of immigration. I served in the military and was married to a naval officer for 23 years, who is very conservative. I never heard once any open discussions on immigration, but could be that they just were talking big. Just the PATRIOT Act alone blows my mind at the moment. How do you feel about that one, all I am trying to say is that the Republican Party is not the immigration party? I am assuming you will support McCain, I know a lot of republicans that don’t care for him. I am democrat always have been, but I learned about republicans from my ex-husband, we used to have some heated discussions on politics. I also think our drug laws in this country is a joke. It is a money maker, no doubt about it, we keep putting people away, and we build bigger prisons. Compared to other first world countries, we have a whole lot of people in prisons. Personally I think someone that is arrested with any kind of violence should be locked up, not the man smoking a joint. I have seen men with murder raps, walk, and drug dealers still sitting in the pen. So the whole thing is just a mess, so many problems.

[GabiandVi 34]

I just never met a serious conservative that believed in any kind of immigration. I served in the military and was married to a naval officer for 23 years, who is very conservative. I never heard once any open discussions on immigration, but could be that they just were talking big. Just the PATRIOT Act alone blows my mind at the moment. How do you feel about that one, all I am trying to say is that the Republican Party is not the immigration party? I am assuming you will support McCain, I know a lot of republicans that don’t care for him. I am democrat always have been, but I learned about republicans from my ex-husband, we used to have some heated discussions on politics. I also think our drug laws in this country is a joke. It is a money maker, no doubt about it, we keep putting people away, and we build bigger prisons. Compared to other first world countries, we have a whole lot of people in prisons. Personally I think someone that is arrested with any kind of violence should be locked up, not the man smoking a joint. I have seen men with murder raps, walk, and drug dealers still sitting in the pen. So the whole thing is just a mess, so many problems.

I don't know yet who I will vote for, but I would not say that the Republican party is not the immigration party. (It was Reagan's questionable policy that saw us giving amnesty to illegals.) I've lived with serious conservatives all my life, most of whom were Democrats, BTW, but many of whom, (my family) were Republicans, and they (my family) have always been open to immigration. In fact, I would say that it has always been conservative Democrats and not conservative Republicans that have been the least open to "ferriners" in my neck of the woods.

I would not class myself as Liberal or Conservative. I try to use logic and common sense to make my decisions. Sometimes that means I'm more aligned with Liberals and other times more aligned with Conservatives. I'll admit that sometimes I'm illogical and irrational in my thinking, but I don't think I ever make a decision based on party lines.

[SaadBell 0]

Differences in Party Philosophies Mold Immigration Politics

Inherent differences in ideology make immigration reform quite the sticky issue between Democrats and Republicans in the USA. Compromise is never easy between these two major parties, but why does immigration law, specifically, cause some of the widest agenda gaps and political paralysis among lawmakers?

The answer may lie in some of the defining beliefs that each party was founded on.

Founding Ideology

Democratic Party

Political science defines a "democrat" as a proponent of social equality and an advocate for the underprivileged. Known as the peaceful party, the Democrats in the States rally for personal freedoms, equal rights, civil liberties, equal opportunity and free enterprise.

In short, they root for the underdog and, ideally, would like to see everyone on earth have their chance at life, liberty and the pursuit of freedom. Although Americans do come first in terms of the legal protections and rights that Democrats fight for, their views extend to people beyond the American borders as well.

Republican Party

Republican ideology is based on upholding virtue, honoring the law, performing civic duties, and on patriotism. Republicans have a headstrong sense of pride in their country and their nationality, believing that living in this great land is not a "right" that extends to all the world, but a privilege that must be dutifully earned. They will passionately fight to protect American borders and those who live legally within them. Their pride and patriotic protectiveness make Republicans much more likely to enter war than Democrats would be. And much less sympathetic to anyone who violates any American laws, or compromises border security.

The Bottom Line: Ideals and Fears

These fundamental philosophical differences certainly explain a lot. Democrats want to give illegal immigrants a chance to prove their worth and become citizens in the land of the free. They maintain that the world and the USA will both be better places if we--as a country--do not turn our backs on foreigners.

Republicans are suspicious and less optimistic that this lovely idea will work out well. They often believe that many foreigners want to "invade" the US rather than become part of it. They argue that any leeway and forgiveness at all will cause a stampede from Latin America, and--to a lesser extent--other regions around the world. Parents will tell their children "Don't worry, just lay low until the President offers another amnesty."

An objective observer from another planet might conclude that Democrats are kinder, more generous, more trusting and more forgiving, while Republicans are wiser, more cautious and more realistic.

And they might very well be right. But one of the problems with all of the debate is that it is often based on speculation and prediction. No one can look into a magic ball and predict the future (though some are quite sure they can), so they can only argue what they believe will happen if certain immigration measures, such as allowing illegal immigrants to gain legal residency (amnesty), are passed into law.

A recent poll by Associated Press-Ipsos found that for Democrats, war is the most serious problem the US is currently facing.

Republicans were almost as likely to cite immigration as the leading problem, right up there with war, reminding us that so much of the party sees border control itself as a form of self-defense and even war. Terrorism and the economy came after immigration concerns in terms perceived gravity. Given these vastly different perceptions and passionate belief systems, a celebration will definitely be in order every time lawmakers from both parties can reach a compromise on immigration reform.

There is one thing both Democrats and Republicans agree on: The American Immigration system is broken, and it needs to be fixed.