Condoleeza Rice says "black Americans loved this country even when this country didn't love them"

[Heracles 417]

Institutional racism

This sounds like wealth distribution. That one should hand over their cash to make up for the past. Stereotypical. In terms of crime they are either committing the crime or they are not. There is no gray area there. The second paragraph is just a bunch of BS considering this is an English speaking nation.

Immigration

Not relevant to black Americans and slavery. Apart from illegal immigrants stealing jobs that should be available to every other American.

Wealth creation

I agree with the obvious about differences in wealth. Are whites taxed differently to African Americans. Sounds like it when reading that paragraph.

Impact on health & Health care inequality

The US does not have UHS so of course there is going to be gaps. Not a racial issue but a class issue here.

Affirmative action

There can never ever be equality when one group is given preferential treatment. Quite the contrary actually since it makes people feel they are inferior. Makes them feel they are unable to do something without a handout.

Current hate groups

Won't change unless the constitution is amended and all racism is outlawed.

[GabiandVi 34]

I am most surprised that the current administration permitted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice the levity to discuss such a divisive topic and to label it as our great nation's "birth defect" is a very strong (but true) statement. No wonder so many American's see a psychiatrist. I believe the term is “Bilateralracialitisâ€. Okay! I made that up! However, America is still obviously suffering from the polarization of race that is evident when discussions amongst folks of the same and different ethnicities arise. As I have mentioned before, African-Americans are now living in the first post oppression, post slavery, post segregation, and post everything that held them back era. There are a lot basic family, social, and economic elements that African-Americans have to iron out for themselves. Just think about it! After natural disasters, the earth does not automatically flourish as if nothing ever happened. There is a period of adapting, re-growth, and development that must take place and the same holds true for the African-American communities. People tend to look at the present day opportunities allotted to African-Americans (as if the past discretions of this great nation never existed) and judge them based on that seemingly overlooking the devastation and that forged the foundation of African-Americans experience, which leads me back to the basic family, social, and economic changes that African-Americans must acknowledge, adjust, and correct for themselves in order to bring about the change that many Americans actually wish for in the African American communities. This current generation may not have caused or took part in the racial disasters of our great nation, but it will be this generation moving forward that has to work within the pain and challenges caused by those same racial disasters. I still have hope in the future generations to come.

I certainly agree with you here. Unfortunately its seems that there are some within our society with lowered expectations who don't believe the African American experience (or indeed the African experience) can be anything more than it currently is.

Those people, as much as anyone are holding us back from an open, honest dialog.

I know the black experience can be as great as everyone else's. We are America! We are the land of Opportunity! I agree that they got a bad start, but that does not mean it is always going to be that way.

The policies of the left have destroyed the black family by taking the fathers away with the welfare state, by telling them that they are not as good as the rest of us, so we are going lower the bar with affirmative action. By telling them that they are owed something from everyone else. This only has crippled them. This is the wreckage of good intentions of socialist policies.

I agree that their ancestors were wronged by slavery. But the current generation is wronged by the government that told them that they didn't have to try anymore, we will do it all for you. Now these same policies that destroyed the American black family and culture are being promoted for all of us by the Democrat party. Why? So we all will be equal in our misery.

I know that any human being that wants to succeed in America can do so, black or otherwise. People only hold themselves back. Out of a sense of entitlement. Maybe their pastor told them that.

The policies of the right were what caused the problem in the first place - establishing the idea that one human being is biologically superior to another. How could anyone begin to clean up that mess - well many people are trying both within the black community and from outside.

The fantasy is that anyone one person or group is to blame for our society being the way it is - convenient it is to have a straw man to pin it on.

I'd be interested in who is the "right" and who is the "left" in this argument. There is certainly a well-meaning attitude among many from the "politically correct" set who have lower expectations for people from lower socio-economic backgrounds. This, on some level, has been the case throughout history. I'm all for acknowledging the inequalities and harmful policies and practices of our past and our present when we address the issues facing, in this case, the African American population. However, I think it is essential that we communicate high expectations of personal responsibility in the same breath. Otherwise, we are guilty of a patronizing attitude that harms rather than helps the worst hit of those policies/practices, no matter how good it may make us feel to pat ourselves on the back.

It's like I used to tell my students. If you are waiting for things to be fair, you are going to die waiting. Unfair as it is, you need to work much harder than I did to get even as far as I have, but I don't see you working half as hard as I did, and I was a bit of a lazy student.

I'm not suggesting that the people on this site arguing their points are guilty of being patronizing. I don't know any of you outside of a few posts here and there, and words on a forum have very little context outside of that forum. I just want to add my two cents which is that there is more than just our unfair policies/practices keeping our children down. We've created a generation of children who believe they can be basketball stars when they can't even play on the high school team because they aren't making the grade. (Who is going to discover them and if they can't speak properly, what kind of endorsement deals are they going to get?) They believe they are going to become engineers and doctors, but they can't write a sentence.

The Sherrif is absolutely right. It is in the interest of our society that we educate our children well. But in order to do that, we need to hold everyone to the same expectations and we have to leave our baggage at the door.

The Sherrif is also right that the change in the suffering community, in this case the African American community, has to come from within for the same reasons stated above. Unfortunately, some of the most popular leaders focus on the wrongness of the status quo rather than pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps. (And I'm not referring to Wright because I don't consider him a popular leader, and I'm not referring to Obama because, honestly, living outside the US since he has been around, I don't know enough about him.)

[HAL 9000 96]

Yes, the beer was good and nourishing. Me and my liberal communist friends at one of the largest feeder universities for the CIA and the State Department had nothing more to do that talk about VJ all the time, and we agreed that, just like I wrote as a starting gist in post #13:

Common sense, investing in the communities via the creation of (a learning curve) self-sustaining, well-educated, well-funded, incentive-driven programs that drive power into poverty-ridden places.

Fortunately for me, I have a wife to spend time with and that means no futile attempts to talk reasonably with wannabe analysts that joke themselves out of the very arguments they try to start (and not finish... on purpose?) with reason and end with an A$$ as has been the pattern evidenced by our previous posters.

For those that utilize reason, nog nog, continue on.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am most surprised that the current administration permitted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice the levity to discuss such a divisive topic and to label it as our great nation's "birth defect" is a very strong (but true) statement. No wonder so many American's see a psychiatrist. I believe the term is “Bilateralracialitisâ€. Okay! I made that up! However, America is still obviously suffering from the polarization of race that is evident when discussions amongst folks of the same and different ethnicities arise. As I have mentioned before, African-Americans are now living in the first post oppression, post slavery, post segregation, and post everything that held them back era. There are a lot basic family, social, and economic elements that African-Americans have to iron out for themselves. Just think about it! After natural disasters, the earth does not automatically flourish as if nothing ever happened. There is a period of adapting, re-growth, and development that must take place and the same holds true for the African-American communities. People tend to look at the present day opportunities allotted to African-Americans (as if the past discretions of this great nation never existed) and judge them based on that seemingly overlooking the devastation and that forged the foundation of African-Americans experience, which leads me back to the basic family, social, and economic changes that African-Americans must acknowledge, adjust, and correct for themselves in order to bring about the change that many Americans actually wish for in the African American communities. This current generation may not have caused or took part in the racial disasters of our great nation, but it will be this generation moving forward that has to work within the pain and challenges caused by those same racial disasters. I still have hope in the future generations to come.

I certainly agree with you here. Unfortunately its seems that there are some within our society with lowered expectations who don't believe the African American experience (or indeed the African experience) can be anything more than it currently is.

Those people, as much as anyone are holding us back from an open, honest dialog.

I know the black experience can be as great as everyone else's. We are America! We are the land of Opportunity! I agree that they got a bad start, but that does not mean it is always going to be that way.

The policies of the left have destroyed the black family by taking the fathers away with the welfare state, by telling them that they are not as good as the rest of us, so we are going lower the bar with affirmative action. By telling them that they are owed something from everyone else. This only has crippled them. This is the wreckage of good intentions of socialist policies.

I agree that their ancestors were wronged by slavery. But the current generation is wronged by the government that told them that they didn't have to try anymore, we will do it all for you. Now these same policies that destroyed the American black family and culture are being promoted for all of us by the Democrat party. Why? So we all will be equal in our misery.

I know that any human being that wants to succeed in America can do so, black or otherwise. People only hold themselves back. Out of a sense of entitlement. Maybe their pastor told them that.

The policies of the right were what caused the problem in the first place - establishing the idea that one human being is biologically superior to another. How could anyone begin to clean up that mess - well many people are trying both within the black community and from outside.

The fantasy is that anyone one person or group is to blame for our society being the way it is - convenient it is to have a straw man to pin it on.

I'd be interested in who is the "right" and who is the "left" in this argument. There is certainly a well-meaning attitude among many from the "politically correct" set who have lower expectations for people from lower socio-economic backgrounds. This, on some level, has been the case throughout history. I'm all for acknowledging the inequalities and harmful policies and practices of our past and our present when we address the issues facing, in this case, the African American population. However, I think it is essential that we communicate high expectations of personal responsibility in the same breath. Otherwise, we are guilty of a patronizing attitude that harms rather than helps the worst hit of those policies/practices, no matter how good it may make us feel to pat ourselves on the back.

It's like I used to tell my students. If you are waiting for things to be fair, you are going to die waiting. Unfair as it is, you need to work much harder than I did to get even as far as I have, but I don't see you working half as hard as I did, and I was a bit of a lazy student.

I'm not suggesting that the people on this site arguing their points are guilty of being patronizing. I don't know any of you outside of a few posts here and there, and words on a forum have very little context outside of that forum. I just want to add my two cents which is that there is more than just our unfair policies/practices keeping our children down. We've created a generation of children who believe they can be basketball stars when they can't even play on the high school team because they aren't making the grade. (Who is going to discover them and if they can't speak properly, what kind of endorsement deals are they going to get?) They believe they are going to become engineers and doctors, but they can't write a sentence.

The Sherrif is absolutely right. It is in the interest of our society that we educate our children well. But in order to do that, we need to hold everyone to the same expectations and we have to leave our baggage at the door.

The Sherrif is also right that the change in the suffering community, in this case the African American community, has to come from within for the same reasons stated above. Unfortunately, some of the most popular leaders focus on the wrongness of the status quo rather than pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps. (And I'm not referring to Wright because I don't consider him a popular leader, and I'm not referring to Obama because, honestly, living outside the US since he has been around, I don't know enough about him.)

Certainly. What I was objecting to there is Don's suggestion that fault for our society's problems can be set squarely on the shoulders of the Democratic party and its policies. It seems to me there is more than enough blame to go around without looking for scapegoats.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

The policies of the right were what caused the problem in the first place - establishing the idea that one human being is biologically superior to another. How could anyone begin to clean up that mess - well many people are trying both within the black community and from outside.

The fantasy is that anyone one person or group is to blame for our society being the way it is - convenient it is to have a straw man to pin it on.

Good work #6. You finally get the picture of a forum..

PS Abraham Lincoln was republican.

BTW the whole Slavery system was propped up and protected by Southern Democrat and the Republican party was founded on abolitionism.

[HAL 9000 96]

BTW Sheriff, nicely written. Thanks.

Also for the geniuses out there that remember their US History, the Republican Party of the 19th Century has more in common with the Democratic Party of the late 20th and early 21st.

[Heracles 417]

You hit the nail on the head there GabiandVi with regards to education. I also believe the problem isn't a racial issue but a general attitude amongst kids. Even the curriculum is great. I certainly don't blame the teachers. Kids don't seem to understand the immense competition they will be facing from abroad this century. I remember seeing a news segment on kids here and how they assume they will be on a 6 figure salary once they graduate. Just they other day I heard a kid say they where out of college and thought the $49K they are starting on is okay but could be better.

The following documentary is quite interesting with regards to education in America.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

No, I am saying that much of the damage that they are experiencing is from the very programs that were designed to save them.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

BTW Sheriff, nicely written. Thanks.

Also for the geniuses out there that remember their US History, the Republican Party of the 19th Century has more in common with the Democratic Party of the late 20th and early 21st.

Agreed, but the pendulum has swung far enough. Let's not start pressing the limits of socialism and communism.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

BTW the whole Slavery system was propped up and protected by Southern Democrat and the Republican party was founded on abolitionism.

the Republican Party of the 19th Century has more in common with the Democratic Party of the late 20th and early 21st.

Right. Because however you slice it "slavery" and racial "superiority" sure as hell aren't recognisable "Liberal" ideas.

They aren't ideas that would be familiar or welcome in mainstream 21st century politics.

[Heracles 417]

Yes, the beer was good and nourishing. Me and my liberal communist friends at one of the largest feeder universities for the CIA and the State Department had nothing more to do that talk about VJ all the time,

Is that supposed to intimidate me. One phone call to my friend in Aus and I can have all of your details within a few hours. He works for ASIO, Australian version of the CIA. Last time I checked they are not bound by any US domestic interception laws. Your call 'bro'. Once we go down that path there is no coming back..

Edited March 29, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Is that supposed to intimidate me. One phone call to my friend in Aus and I can have all of your details within a few hours. He works for ASIO, Australian version of the CIA. Last time I checked they are not bound by any US domestic interception laws. Your call 'bro'. Once we go down that path there is no coming back..

:rofl:

[Heracles 417]

Is that supposed to intimidate me. One phone call to my friend in Aus and I can have all of your details within a few hours. He works for ASIO, Australian version of the CIA. Last time I checked they are not bound by any US domestic interception laws. Your call 'bro'. Once we go down that path there is no coming back..

:rofl:

Dam straight..

[GabiandVi 34]

Certainly. What I was objecting to there is Don's suggestion that fault for our society's problems can be set squarely on the shoulders of the Democratic party and its policies. It seems to me there is more than enough blame to go around without looking for scapegoats.

Agreed. I wasn't exactly directing my statement to you. Understanding the history of the issue is important. It was the history of the issue that had us implement affirmative action, and we wouldn't have come as far as we have today in terms of civil rights without policies like AA. Unfortunately today when someone suggests that AA is no longer good policy, political correctness rears its intolerant head, points its fingers, and tars the speaker with the label, "racist". It's very effective technique because now the speaker is speaking from a position of defensiveness. Everything argument he makes is discounted because he is a racist. He must be, he's wearing the label. But that is off topic. My point is that while political correctness in no way created the problem, and it is impossible to fix the problem without understanding its history, political correctness is now part of the problem. It gets in the way of progress by shutting down discussion, but also by lowering expectations. With regard to this issue, there is a sort of racism in the actions of many who mean well. The "road to hell . . ." and all that.

[Heracles 417]

Is that supposed to intimidate me. One phone call to my friend in Aus and I can have all of your details within a few hours. He works for ASIO, Australian version of the CIA. Last time I checked they are not bound by any US domestic interception laws. Your call 'bro'. Once we go down that path there is no coming back..

:rofl:

Come on troll what did you expect. As I stated a while back, stupid posts will get stupid responses.

Edited March 29, 2008 by Boo-Yah!