Russian computer for USA?

[mox 298]

And now that Macs use Intel chips they run Vista faster than any PCs. Beating them at their own game.

This is true. The Mac Book Pro was just rated as the fastest Windows notebook by a major publication. PC Magazine or something like that.

You sound like a certified mac hater so I recommend you go and find yourself a PC and maybe consider running Linux. I have owned a Mac since 1989 and love them.

I don't get the impression that she hates Macs, just that she's had a bad experience with the one she has. I think she's also getting some incorrect info that could be important in making a decision. I believe PC's have their place, but I also believe the Mac, as it stands today, is the best end-user platform out there. If Ekee were a heavy gamer, I'd tell her to ditch the Mac and get a Dell. And if Ekee were a Real Estate agent I'd also tell her to get a PC because all of the MLS software only runs on PC's.

I am a rabid Linux enthusiast, but I would still not recommend Linux to and end-user. In fact, I would hate myself in the morning, but I would recommend Vista over Linux to an end-user. There is not a Linux distro out there that is easy enough for your average end-user to run and manage. That day is coming, and quite frankly should have been here by now, but it's not here yet.

No added windows layer to rob power.

Not quite true, actually. The Mac OS X kernel runs BSD Unix. The graphical interface you're used to seeing is called Aqua. It runs on top of Unix in the same fashion that the Windows interface runs over DOS, although Microsoft have blurred these lines heavily, resulting in bloaty code and no end of problems. So the additional layer of a GUI on top of the actual OS does cost some overhead, but it's quite a bit less than Windows.

No cheesy feeling mouse. No chronic crashes. No long delayed updates. No 3-hour set-ups for new hardware add-ons.

This is the number one reason I gave my mom a Mac. She goes out and buys a printer and it just works.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

But us Mac guys see nothing awesome about any PC Bobalouie! And many of us despise Windows. Price does not motivate us, it's the way Macs work!

I disagree with you mox on the competitivness of the Mac vs the PC. I can pick up an awsome Dell or HP on ebay with all the bells and whistles (integral web cam w/mic, fingerprint id, 2.0ghz processor, 250 gig HD, DVD R/W, and 3 gig ram, 17" monitor) for $1250. A similar Macbook Pro with 2.16ghz processor, 17" screen, 120gig HD, DVD R/W, 2 gig ram, is $1600. If I dump some features off the HP like HD size and a gig of RAM I can easily get that same computer for $1000. That is a difference of 60%. They just dont seem competitve to me, I looked at them after reading yours and Kazans conversation a while back about them, but I couldnt justify the price. New prices are similar.

[mox 298]

I disagree with you mox on the competitivness of the Mac vs the PC. I can pick up an awsome Dell or HP on ebay with all the bells and whistles (integral web cam w/mic, fingerprint id, 2.0ghz processor, 250 gig HD, DVD R/W, and 3 gig ram, 17" monitor) for $1250. A similar Macbook Pro with 2.16ghz processor, 17" screen, 120gig HD, DVD R/W, 2 gig ram, is $1600. If I dump some features off the HP like HD size and a gig of RAM I can easily get that same computer for $1000. That is a difference of 60%. They just dont seem competitve to me, I looked at them after reading yours and Kazans conversation a while back about them, but I couldnt justify the price. New prices are similar.

I'm talking retail price comparisons, not second-hand. I haven't priced Ebay, but I think your experience speaks more to the Mac's ability to hold its value than anything else.

[eekee 182]

My brother. But i know he's definitely in trouble at the moment for backdating stock options. It was all over the news a little while back.

As i said, i was too disappointed with pc laptops (shiny screens! Gross!) to switch. If i were able to use a desktop, i'd switch. But i can't. I do think the macbook pro IS the best laptop right now for what i need to use a computer for. But i HAVE had a lot of issues with my mac laptops.

The ipod? Not so innovative, really. External harddrive with an interface.

Plus who would ever WANT to run vista? i run xp in parallels because my russian version mysteriously did not pass boot camp's verification tests.

I did just get adobe cs3 for pc though, so that might indeed be the final nai in my mac coffin. However, the only thing that has truly made me be a "mac hater" is my own frustrations in using one.

No...Steve Jobs was betrayed by the man he brought into the company in the first place and forced out. His name was John Sculley and he's infamous in the history of Apple. Nothing to do with stock options. Where'd you get that one? If Steve gets in trouble, and that remains to be seen, he's still a genius and a founding father of personal computers. He's always two steps ahead of the PC guys and they end of copycatting Apple innovations. Multi-colors for computers, the IPOD, the IPHONE, etc. etc. etc.

And now that Macs use Intel chips they run Vista faster than any PCs. Beating them at their own game.

You sound like a certified mac hater so I recommend you go and find yourself a PC and maybe consider running Linux. I have owned a Mac since 1989 and love them. No added windows layer to rob power. No cheesy feeling mouse. No chronic crashes. No long delayed updates. No 3-hour set-ups for new hardware add-ons.

[Bobalouie 0]

I disagree with you mox on the competitivness of the Mac vs the PC. I can pick up an awsome Dell or HP on ebay with all the bells and whistles (integral web cam w/mic, fingerprint id, 2.0ghz processor, 250 gig HD, DVD R/W, and 3 gig ram, 17" monitor) for $1250. A similar Macbook Pro with 2.16ghz processor, 17" screen, 120gig HD, DVD R/W, 2 gig ram, is $1600. If I dump some features off the HP like HD size and a gig of RAM I can easily get that same computer for $1000. That is a difference of 60%. They just dont seem competitve to me, I looked at them after reading yours and Kazans conversation a while back about them, but I couldnt justify the price. New prices are similar.

I'm talking retail price comparisons, not second-hand. I haven't priced Ebay, but I think your experience speaks more to the Mac's ability to hold its value than anything else.

Ok mox, here ya go

This is straight from the Apple and HP websites, no extra software or printers, etc.:

Macbook Pro $3459.00

17" Hi def screen

2.6 ghz processor

4 GB memory

250 GB hard drive

Bluetooth

Wifi

ethernet

Geoforce 8600M Video card

webcam and mic

8x DVD R/W

HP DV9700t $1899.00

17" Hi def screen

2.6 ghz processor

4 GB memory

250 GB Hard drive

Bluetooth

Wifi

Ethernet

Geoforce 8600M Video card

webcam, mic, and fingerprint security

8x DVD R/W

For a grand total difference of $1560. If you are a "money is no object" person the Macbook pro is the computer for you. But for a price/value guy like me, thats a lot a dimp!

I think the price difference is less in how the mac holds its value and more of how much you paid in the first place!

Edited March 28, 2008 by Bobalouie

[mox 298]

Ok mox, here ya go

This is straight from the Apple and HP websites, no extra software or printers, etc.:

Huh. I guess I stand corrected then. Either Apple have raised the prices of their laptops, or HP has dropped theirs...or hell, maybe I was just hallucinating the last time I priced computers.

I do want to point out that Macs come with more usable software (not the demo ####### you spend hours trying to remove from a PC) than PC's, but certainly not $1,500 worth.

Dunno what to say. The last time I looked, the differences were much closer. Given my experiences with both platforms though, I'll still take the Mac over the PC. Not having to reinstall every 3-6 months or going through some arcane machinations to get a peripheral to install is worth it to me.

[Okiebollweevil 0]

My wife asked me if she should bring her laptop computer when she comes to the USA. All I know is it's a lower end Russian HP version computer. I think it's fairly new but not sure. She really does not know much about computers and relies on her son to help her with email, etc. In fact, she has a desktop computer that she has some knowledge about but little about the laptop.

And, of course, the manuals are in Russian so i won't be able to read up on it and I'm a Mac guy, so I know nothing about PCs anyway. I'm "Windows illiterate."

I have a Macintosh desktop computer, so having a laptop could be useful I suppose, like watching movies on a trip or whatever...but I wonder about it's value if it's set-up for Russians to use.

I tend to think it's not worth the trouble. What do you guys think? Is it worth her lugging the extra weight from Russia to get this laptop to the USA?

I sent my wife an old IBM thinkpad to Russia with a converter for the electrical connection. needless to say, the computer should have stayed there as I bought a much better one here. Also, you will need a power converter, and they are not very good for the electrical needs of a PC whether here or in Russia (not cheap either). Our home PC has both languages on it and my wife glued litle tabs on the keys to reflect which Russian character is beneath the English keys. Seems to be working fine. We acquired a dell laptop with state employee discount and with a wireless modem she can use the laptop anywhere in the house. Myself, I would advise not to lug the laptop over here and use the weight to carry something your wife believes she will need here or has some sentimental value.

[eekee 182]

I doubt you actually needed a power converter. I have used my computer in Russia without a power converter--just a 15 ruble thing from KEI to turn a european outlet into an american one. Most electronics like cell phones, cameras, and laptops are made to work all over the world. Only things like kitchen gadgets and hairdryers actually require a power converter.

Unless you ARE talking about an outlet switcher thing, in which case they are strangely expensive in the US and also hard to find and very cheap and easy to find in russia.

And to reiterate, if you put the laptop in your carryon it won't count as extra weight. I would never put something as important as a laptop in my checked baggage anyway. I always put electronic equipment and their respective chargers in my carryon so i'm not stranded if the airline loses my bag.

I sent my wife an old IBM thinkpad to Russia with a converter for the electrical connection. needless to say, the computer should have stayed there as I bought a much better one here. Also, you will need a power converter, and they are not very good for the electrical needs of a PC whether here or in Russia (not cheap either). Our home PC has both languages on it and my wife glued litle tabs on the keys to reflect which Russian character is beneath the English keys. Seems to be working fine. We acquired a dell laptop with state employee discount and with a wireless modem she can use the laptop anywhere in the house. Myself, I would advise not to lug the laptop over here and use the weight to carry something your wife believes she will need here or has some sentimental value.

Edited March 28, 2008 by eekee

[Bobalouie 0]

Ok mox, here ya go

This is straight from the Apple and HP websites, no extra software or printers, etc.:

Huh. I guess I stand corrected then. Either Apple have raised the prices of their laptops, or HP has dropped theirs...or hell, maybe I was just hallucinating the last time I priced computers.

I do want to point out that Macs come with more usable software (not the demo ####### you spend hours trying to remove from a PC) than PC's, but certainly not $1,500 worth.

Dunno what to say. The last time I looked, the differences were much closer. Given my experiences with both platforms though, I'll still take the Mac over the PC. Not having to reinstall every 3-6 months or going through some arcane machinations to get a peripheral to install is worth it to me.

Knock on wood, I dont have the reinstall problems. The only time I have had to reinstall was when I got a virus and had to format the hard drive to clean it out. The peripherals are a different story there....Know exactly what you mean.

[slim 1,530]

. I always put electronic equipment and their respective chargers in my carryon so i'm not stranded if the airline loses my bag.

A toothbrush is nice to have in a carry-on as well. Extra undies never hurts, either. Nothing like fresh socks after traveling for 42 hours and having no luggage because it's in Bangladesh and you're in Bangalore.

[mox 298]

. I always put electronic equipment and their respective chargers in my carryon so i'm not stranded if the airline loses my bag.

A toothbrush is nice to have in a carry-on as well. Extra undies never hurts, either. Nothing like fresh socks after traveling for 42 hours and having no luggage because it's in Bangladesh and you're in Bangalore.

Ridiculous. Exactly how are you going to play Minesweeper for 14 hours straight with a toothbrush and a pair of undies?

[shikarnov 7]

Ok mox, here ya go

This is straight from the Apple and HP websites, no extra software or printers, etc.:

Macbook Pro $3459.00

HP DV9700t $1899.00

For a grand total difference of $1560.

I'm a little late to this thread, but if you're strictly comparing hardware, then you're definitely getting the better bargain buying a PC. But, as Mox pointed out, the Mac comes with more usable software. And you also have to factor in the maintenance costs of running Windows like your annual virus subscription, calling in the repair techie (me!) to clean out all the spyware that accumulates, down time doing the periodic reformats and reinstalls, etc.

Of course, if you're "in the know," you'd use AVG, remove all your spyware yourself with free utilities, and the reformats and reinstalls would eat at your weekends, and not your work day... But wouldn't you rather spending those off hours with your new wife?

Since switching to the Mac seven months ago, I haven't had many problems. I'm not saying the Mac doesn't have problems -- it does -- but, they occur with far less frequency overall, and manifest themselves far less severely, than ever happened to me on Windows (and I rarely had Windows problems on my machines).

As for the topic at hand: I'd recommend getting your wife a Mac. Putting a novice user on a Windows machine is going to have you working all the time fixing things. And OSX can operate in Russian just fine, although you might to buy some Russian keyboard stickers or a Russian keyboard cover so she can have her Cyrillic letters. Some software may not translate -- but that's not uncommon on the Russian Windows side either (although it'll be more common on the Mac side, admittedly).

Just my 2 cents

Z

[slim 1,530]

. I always put electronic equipment and their respective chargers in my carryon so i'm not stranded if the airline loses my bag.

A toothbrush is nice to have in a carry-on as well. Extra undies never hurts, either. Nothing like fresh socks after traveling for 42 hours and having no luggage because it's in Bangladesh and you're in Bangalore.

Ridiculous. Exactly how are you going to play Minesweeper for 14 hours straight with a toothbrush and a pair of undies?

When you have a toothbrush and pair of undies, you don't need to play Minesweeper anymore because you're now fresh and invigorated enough to go out and conquer the terminal!

[russ 1]

As for the topic at hand: I'd recommend getting your wife a Mac. Putting a novice user on a Windows machine is going to have you working all the time fixing things. And OSX can operate in Russian just fine, although you might to buy some Russian keyboard stickers or a Russian keyboard cover so she can have her Cyrillic letters. Some software may not translate -- but that's not uncommon on the Russian Windows side either (although it'll be more common on the Mac side, admittedly).

I'm not a big fan of the Russian typewriter layout. With a mac, you can use use a transliterated QWERTY layout (A=A, S=С, D=Д, etc) No stickers, and it reinforces qwerty in your mind, which is kind of useful to know well in the US.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

The transliterated layout, to my knowledge, does not work well if you actually make and then send a file to someone. It almost always comes out as garbage on the other end. It would also totally confuse someone that already types using the Russian standard layout (like my fiancée). When you set your Mac to Russian with the international settings in your preferences the layout is the same as found on any other Russian computer. Fortunately, I memorized the Russian keyboard layout. So I no longer require the keyboard cover, thank goodness!

As for the topic at hand: I'd recommend getting your wife a Mac. Putting a novice user on a Windows machine is going to have you working all the time fixing things. And OSX can operate in Russian just fine, although you might to buy some Russian keyboard stickers or a Russian keyboard cover so she can have her Cyrillic letters. Some software may not translate -- but that's not uncommon on the Russian Windows side either (although it'll be more common on the Mac side, admittedly).

I'm not a big fan of the Russian typewriter layout. With a mac, you can use use a transliterated QWERTY layout (A=A, S=С, D=Д, etc) No stickers, and it reinforces qwerty in your mind, which is kind of useful to know well in the US.