Double Standards

[Jenn! 918]

To hit on a girl is unacceptable? Ok, a married woman, yes. But....I mean, how did everyone meet their SO's?

Probably doing something unacceptable it just depends on the culture and the religion though. Techincally Muslims (if we're discussing Muslims) should be "lowering their gaze." Obviously, that is harder than it sounds But mostly I was talking about that guy hitting on her and especially in front of her husband. There comes a point where I think that crosses most cultural and religious bounds.

Right, I mean I understand and all, but how many Muslims follow every single thing they're supposed to do? Look at the results of that Religious? poll here in MENA. This is not directed towards you, but I'm having trouble understanding why there seems to be this expectation that every man who lives in a Muslim country is a very strict Muslim who follows every rule to the T.

Who said anything about ogling men? And do you know what metrosexual means because I don't understand how it's the opposite of being strict and closed-minded.

The only thing I can think is that it would clash with the idea of modesty? I'm not sure either. But if you were pretty strict and sticking to Sunnah and whatnot I don't know that you'd make the metrosexual cut with highwaters and a beard...

LOL, yes I'd agree that someone very strict is most definitely NOT a metrosexual. But the other way around doesn't really work.

[Nasturtium 500]

Right, I mean I understand and all, but how many Muslims follow every single thing they're supposed to do? Look at the results of that Religious? poll here in MENA. This is not directed towards you, but I'm having trouble understanding why there seems to be this expectation that every man who lives in a Muslim country is a very strict Muslim who follows every rule to the T.

I'm not taking it personally I don't know WHY people assume that. i'm not, I was pointing out the difference in the two behaviors she had noted from the older "averting eyes" men to the younger "flirty" guy. I seriously doubt most of our SOs are following things to a T. I think it's a general western misconception about them, same as the "permissive/extremely naughty" (hey, trying to be nice here) image they have of us.

LOL, yes I'd agree that someone very strict is most definitely NOT a metrosexual. But the other way around doesn't really work.

I agree 100%. I checked yes for my husband being religious because he fit the description there but he's definately far more metro than our above-mentioned high-watered/ long-bearded guy. (the siggy pics are from an excavation, probably shouldn't judge his metro-ness on excavation clothes )

Edited March 28, 2008 by julianna

[jpaula 20]

He is somewhat backwards,jealous and sometimes makes me crazy, but I didnt fall in love with a metrosexual open minded man....

seriously....I have never met an arabic man who was truly in love with his wife that would be cool with her hanging out with men all the time.Maybe long term friends...but come on....Im in love with a muslim...How many husbands here would be ok with their wives ogling men and hanging out with them all the time...Oh hell no...Not if its a real marriage

I have many male friends and would not have married someone who was threatened by that. To me, jealousy is not a sign of love but of control and lack of trust. Everyone knows what they themselves are comfortable with and what compromises they are willing to make for the comfort of another. My line is very clear and I never would have entered into a marriage where I thought I could not be my true self. We are all dealing with cultural issues, but this is not a reason to feel like you have to accept things with which you really disagree.

I feel a little silly trying to give advice or guess at what will happen when your husband gets here because my husband had been in the US for a while by the time we met so you could say we both knew what we were getting. But, I just really worry when I hear anyone hope that things will be different in the future. None of us can know that. There is no innate mellowing agent in the US air. And frankly, having you cover head to toe in Oran is worrying to me as well as it is not at all the norm there.

Babbling away here as I want to give you some sort of reassurance or advice but have none to give. I do hope that you find a way to address these things and that you not use "culture" as a way to excuse things that cross the line (whatever your own line may be).

[sarahaziz 0]

wow thank God I didn't marry american or americanized arab....I wouldn't be able to last with one. we don't look we don't talk or talk about others from the opposite sex it's just disrespectful b/t a man and wife in our opinion. Hey if you talk to the opposite sex and your spouse is ok with it who cares then. Until today i realized my spouse acting like an imam isn't annoying at all I should thank god after reading couple of men's posts. Jealousy in a way is acceptable from my spouse where your spouse is smiling and asks like a little kid why are you looking at him you think hes more sexy than me or what? or If I really was looking at a hot guy back home and smiling at him and my husband gets so pissed and asks why im doing that. That actually happened once ... he made me sit in the back so he could see my eyes in the front view mirror i love when he's jealous. And about the american women thing Arab girls are just evil man. Seriously their good girls but some love to steal other womens men and you know....show off. My spouses cousin always takes her hijab off when my spouse is talking with her dad and tries to talk with him and jump in the converstation and her dad looks at her like ####### are you doing...My spouse walks away and says "your ###### bestfriend is here"

[sereia 0]

my husband's sister had a friend over one time...she and her friend had just come back from the hammam and were in the sister's bedroom changing. my husband and i were in the kitchen with my back to the wall... the wall which has a window into his sister's bedroom (but had a curtain so you can't see inside) apparently the girl opened the curtains and showed my husband her naked breasts right above my back!!! suddenly his face turned red and he looked down at the table...when he told me why i seriously wanted to get up and smack her but i didn't want to cause drama in the house so we both ignored it.

[Nasturtium 500]

my husband's sister had a friend over one time...she and her friend had just come back from the hammam and were in the sister's bedroom changing. my husband and i were in the kitchen with my back to the wall... the wall which has a window into his sister's bedroom (but had a curtain so you can't see inside) apparently the girl opened the curtains and showed my husband her naked breasts right above my back!!! suddenly his face turned red and he looked down at the table...when he told me why i seriously wanted to get up and smack her but i didn't want to cause drama in the house so we both ignored it.

Yeah Dh had this first cousin that kept accusing him of making her pregnant (even though they had done nothing together, she claimed it was out of LOVE (she needs a biology lesson)), and one time she burst into our apartment and made a huge scene, crying, screaming, etc. He said ti was a good thing I was there because she could have done anything. She wanted him to marry her. Anyway, she called the whole family and told them we were sleeping together and generally being "bad." Of course we were married but she didn't know a thing. The family backed us and ostracized her... but it has caused a huge familial rift. She is NOT someone on my favorite list.

ETA-- and the pure hate she has for me is palpable. She's nothing but "nice" to my face, but i caught her trying to spit in my shoes. Who knows? He said he never liked her, she has always just been like this.

Edited March 28, 2008 by julianna

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

He is somewhat backwards,jealous and sometimes makes me crazy, but I didnt fall in love with a metrosexual open minded man....

seriously....I have never met an arabic man who was truly in love with his wife that would be cool with her hanging out with men all the time.Maybe long term friends...but come on....Im in love with a muslim...How many husbands here would be ok with their wives ogling men and hanging out with them all the time...Oh hell no...Not if its a real marriage

I have many male friends and would not have married someone who was threatened by that. To me, jealousy is not a sign of love but of control and lack of trust. Everyone knows what they themselves are comfortable with and what compromises they are willing to make for the comfort of another. My line is very clear and I never would have entered into a marriage where I thought I could not be my true self. We are all dealing with cultural issues, but this is not a reason to feel like you have to accept things with which you really disagree.

I feel a little silly trying to give advice or guess at what will happen when your husband gets here because my husband had been in the US for a while by the time we met so you could say we both knew what we were getting. But, I just really worry when I hear anyone hope that things will be different in the future. None of us can know that. There is no innate mellowing agent in the US air. And frankly, having you cover head to toe in Oran is worrying to me as well as it is not at all the norm there.

Babbling away here as I want to give you some sort of reassurance or advice but have none to give. I do hope that you find a way to address these things and that you not use "culture" as a way to excuse things that cross the line (whatever your own line may be).

Thanks JP,

My husband is very traditional. He is expecting me to be exactly like the women in his family and never left Algeria till he went with me to Tunisia.He never really went out of the west...so he hasnt been exposed to much...Also many women in Oran cover...especially in his neighborhood.Wealthy and academics dont but the average husband wants his wife to start wearing hijab after marriage and to follow a certain way of acting...I love him and I am trying to adjust to what he wants...and to raise our baby traditionally albeit I want our child to go to university,something no one in his family has ever done

my husband's sister had a friend over one time...she and her friend had just come back from the hammam and were in the sister's bedroom changing. my husband and i were in the kitchen with my back to the wall... the wall which has a window into his sister's bedroom (but had a curtain so you can't see inside) apparently the girl opened the curtains and showed my husband her naked breasts right above my back!!! suddenly his face turned red and he looked down at the table...when he told me why i seriously wanted to get up and smack her but i didn't want to cause drama in the house so we both ignored it.

This is a topic I mentioned in previous posts...I had a cousin of his do very similar things.I have refused to talk to her ,period

[allousa 1]

So many generalizations on this board are making bile rise up in my throat. AGH!!!!

My husband is from a Muslim country...Palestinian to boot! When I first met him, here in the States, we were both going to clubs. We were BOTH drinking alcohol and smoking. However, he has never eaten pork and still during those early years he observed Muslim holidays. As we got more serious, he wanted me to quit drinking and smoking, and he stopped himself. When we started talking about getting married, we laid it all out on the line...about the things we were willing to compromise on and those that we were not. I agreed that I would raise our children as Muslims but that I would NEVER cover my head. We even discussed how we would handle religious holidays with our children (not born at the time) with my predominately Christian family yet still uphold our Muslim beliefs. YOU MUST TALK ABOUT ALL OF THESE ISSUES, IMO, PRIOR TO GETTING MARRIED!!!!

We still have issues that we sometimes argue over, but had we not dealt with these issue prior, I don't know how our relationship would have survived.

Double standards exist in a relationship WHEN YOU ALLOW THEM TO HAPPEN! This has nothing to do with culture or religion. Unless someone is physically holding a gun to your head, we are responsible for our own choices. As I have matured in my life, I make it clear what my boundaries are with ANY relationship, male or female. By this, I mean if you allow people to talk nasty to you...they will. If you allow people to take advantage of you...they will.

I also want to say that I have volunteered for YEARS with a local Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault program and I can say with surety, that jealousy in a realtionship is NEVER healthy. I have seen with my own eyes what it can evolve into. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT for a person to take it upon themselves to establish their own boundaries. Jealousy IS NOT LOVE and it is not a positive emotional trait.

[Jenn! 918]

So many generalizations on this board are making bile rise up in my throat. AGH!!!!

My husband is from a Muslim country...Palestinian to boot! When I first met him, here in the States, we were both going to clubs. We were BOTH drinking alcohol and smoking. However, he has never eaten pork and still during those early years he observed Muslim holidays. As we got more serious, he wanted me to quit drinking and smoking, and he stopped himself. When we started talking about getting married, we laid it all out on the line...about the things we were willing to compromise on and those that we were not. I agreed that I would raise our children as Muslims but that I would NEVER cover my head. We even discussed how we would handle religious holidays with our children (not born at the time) with my predominately Christian family yet still uphold our Muslim beliefs. YOU MUST TALK ABOUT ALL OF THESE ISSUES, IMO, PRIOR TO GETTING MARRIED!!!!

We still have issues that we sometimes argue over, but had we not dealt with these issue prior, I don't know how our relationship would have survived.

Double standards exist in a relationship WHEN YOU ALLOW THEM TO HAPPEN! This has nothing to do with culture or religion. Unless someone is physically holding a gun to your head, we are responsible for our own choices. As I have matured in my life, I make it clear what my boundaries are with ANY relationship, male or female. By this, I mean if you allow people to talk nasty to you...they will. If you allow people to take advantage of you...they will.

I also want to say that I have volunteered for YEARS with a local Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault program and I can say with surety, that jealousy in a realtionship is NEVER healthy. I have seen with my own eyes what it can evolve into. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT for a person to take it upon themselves to establish their own boundaries. Jealousy IS NOT LOVE and it is not a positive emotional trait.

Brava!

[hopeful... 0]

He is somewhat backwards,jealous and sometimes makes me crazy, but I didnt fall in love with a metrosexual open minded man....

seriously....I have never met an arabic man who was truly in love with his wife that would be cool with her hanging out with men all the time.Maybe long term friends...but come on....Im in love with a muslim...How many husbands here would be ok with their wives ogling men and hanging out with them all the time...Oh hell no...Not if its a real marriage

Well, personally, I fell in love with a human being, not a Muslim, not a Christian, not an Arabic man. As for me, I don't hang out with men all the time, but I do have male friends who I would NEVER give up, and thankfully my husband would never want me to give them up because, well, he trusts me and, he likes them, too. Yes, he's an Egyptian man who loves an American woman with male friends. It does happen. We met here in the States (not on the internet) so we had lots of time together before marriage, we've been together for about 5 years, he is very close with my family/friends, and I love that he's open minded. If the only thing he or I ever needs to "worry" about is that we gazed at another person of the opposite sex, I consider us VERY blessed.

I guess I misunderstood the reason you posted in the first place. If you're happy with the kind of guy you chose, then so be it, and I wish you all the best.

[Gaby&Talbert 1]

So you are a American man and your wife is mexican? I am sure you had bad experiences with some American women, but to make a blanket statement, than I wonder what kind of man you really are. wahrania is going through some really serious stuff, and just needs a little support. You telling me you never have any doubts about your wife, EVER You watch the evening news, look at a poilce report, there is violence between husband's and wifes everyday and the majority of them are married to someone from their own country. You never really know someone, unless you know something I don't know.

I guess I am lucky because my wife is an angel. Everytime something would come up that I would expect her to be upset about she has reacted wonderfully. She doesn't hold in her feeling if something bothers her, she will calmly talk to me about it and we work out a solution together. She has the same qualities I saw in American women when I was a child. I am not saying there are not women in the US with the same qualities but with MTV and all the things people and grown to accept as normal here I feel sorry for my children. American influence does reach the rest of the world and will change the values everywhere eventually. I love my country and know it is the greatest country in the world but morality and values are slowly slipping away.

There is violence against women all over the world and it is probably the least here in the US. I hope no woman would ever have to experience it but unfortunately it happens. I just know I have never or would never do it. The one thing my father always taught me was there is NEVER a reaon the hit a woman NEVER. I have taught my son the same. Believe me my ex wife deserved the ####### beat out of her but I would never touch her just because it is wrong. She would get in my face screaming and yelling and hitting me but the last thing I would do is hit a woman. Any man that hits a woman just be beaten and then his parents for not teaching him better.

[SaadBell 0]

Jealously might be exciting in the beginning, like young teenager love, but believe me, it will wear itself out fast. It seems a little strange for a man to watch your eyes to make sure you are not looking at another man. That would totally make me stare, but I am always watching things, so thank goodness my husband doesn’t do that. I can see where it seems very sweet, he loves me so much, but really you should nip that in the bud before it gets worst.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

He is somewhat backwards,jealous and sometimes makes me crazy, but I didnt fall in love with a metrosexual open minded man....

seriously....I have never met an arabic man who was truly in love with his wife that would be cool with her hanging out with men all the time.Maybe long term friends...but come on....Im in love with a muslim...How many husbands here would be ok with their wives ogling men and hanging out with them all the time...Oh hell no...Not if its a real marriage

Well, personally, I fell in love with a human being, not a Muslim, not a Christian, not an Arabic man. As for me, I don't hang out with men all the time, but I do have male friends who I would NEVER give up, and thankfully my husband would never want me to give them up because, well, he trusts me and, he likes them, too. Yes, he's an Egyptian man who loves an American woman with male friends. It does happen. We met here in the States (not on the internet) so we had lots of time together before marriage, we've been together for about 5 years, he is very close with my family/friends, and I love that he's open minded. If the only thing he or I ever needs to "worry" about is that we gazed at another person of the opposite sex, I consider us VERY blessed.

I guess I misunderstood the reason you posted in the first place. If you're happy with the kind of guy you chose, then so be it, and I wish you all the best.

You met in the states...and had 5 years together..How in the world could my situation ever compare to yours?My husband has not been outside of his close knit community.As aggravated as I get with our differences,its not fair to compare him and contrast to either of your situations.Hes never ever seen a movie theater,an escalator,a dolphin, or any western thing other than what he has in Oran which is not much.....

[Jenn! 918]

I have to agree that now I don't even know what the problem is. I thought the double standard was an issue, but now you seem to be defending it.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have to agree that now I don't even know what the problem is. I thought the double standard was an issue, but now you seem to be defending it.

Im not ..I had alot of concerns I wanted to talk about...but my husband is being insulted and I think alot of our issues are culture and my perceptionof it...i feel bad for even bringing it up