Foreign Opinion & the US Constitution

[SnowyTater 0]

I don't think you're frittering or 'whining' or any of that stuff.

I think actually asserting an opinion on things, any opinion, is a heck of a sight better than being complacent and passive, which is what I think causes tons more problems and maybe puts the most strain on the social system to start with. Heck, to be honest, it's bad for us/me if some Mexicans or dudes from other countries are coming back and forth across the border to make money, and exploiting the system, but I can't really blame them. I can see that from multiple POVs people are gonna justify all sorts of behavior: they'll run on self-interest just like we would. The US exploits tons of other countries, and people within the US exploit each other. I think that's natural.

But complacency and passiveness and this feeling of "I want but don't want to work for it" I think is a lot worse, and isn't an illegal immigration issue. My sister's currently pulling that ####### and decided it'd be a great idea to have a baby without any responsible consideration of the repercussions or planning or saving or anything, and now YOUR tax dollars are paying for her! Yaaaay And I have NO idea where she gets it from We were not raised like that and our entire family is very much against that sort of mentality...But I think there's tons of really, to put it bluntly, stupid and spoiled born-and-raised Americans that feel like they're ENTITLED to a house and a brand new car and government support and cheetohs and going out to eat and vacations and whatever else, and that 'the government' is this beneficent abstract endless pool of money. To be honest I kind of have a lot more respect for the exploitive or coercive illegal immigrants than for these people, because while the illegal immigrants are technically 'enemy' in that they're bringing down our system, at least they have a personal drive and will and energy to WORK.

I think I got off topic I'm sorry

[GabiandVi 34]

If the two country's system of government was a game of chess I would say the Parliamentary system would have said checkmate after the first move. Every time I travel to Aus and then come back I notice the huge difference in which system works and which does not. People there are having the best year ever whereas all I see here is frowns, attitude and generally how miserable people are. This is not a pissing contest but in my opinion after having lived here for over 2 years, the parliamentary system wins hands down.

Again, you are talking about the people, not the constitution, or even the system of government, and this is just your observation after two years. I'm sorry, I don't put much weight on one person's anecdotal argument about the happiness of an entire country. We can argue that point, and you may be right. I don't know. Nothing you have said so far is convincing.

And if the parlimentary system of Australia is so much better, why when the majority of people wanted to "lose the Queen" you are still under her? According to my Australian friends, the system was used against you.

The queen is hardly a reflection of the parliamentary system. If you think the status quo style of government and laws work then you need to travel more. As I have said earlier I am willing to bet cash that if we went to other international forums and asked them what they thought of the US constitution, it would not be positive. Clearly there is no quantifiable way of proving this apart from looking at the constitution of other nations; if they have any.

The queen is directly related to your parlimentary system, but that was not my point. According to your countrymates, the reason you still have the queen is because your system was manipulated to achieve exactly the opposite result that the populace wanted. You were stating that your parlimentary system ensured greater happiness among your populace than the US system does. I was pointing out that your argument doesn't hold water, according to your own countrymates.

The system of government and the constitution are not the same thing, anyway. If we were to compare constitutions, you would find that the Australian constitution is VERY similar to the US constitution. In fact, just about every constitution created since the US constitution was created is relatively similar to the US constitution. That's why I asked my initial question in the first place.

I'm sure if we went to an international forum you would find a lot of emotional arguments about why the US is such a terrible country. I SERIOUSLY doubt you would find any of those people citing the constitution as the reason they hate America. I'm not defending the country. I could defend the great things about the US if this were what this were about. I could also concede to many, many faults in the country. The constitution would not be one of them. That has been my point all along.

I think you misspoke when you mentioned the constitution. I think you meant other aspects of the country. I can accept that, though I don't think that was what the OT was about. I sincerely wanted to know what you found wrong with the constitution, and I still haven't gotten an answer. But I'm happy to agree to disagree. I don't have a problem with you having a problem with my country. You would be far from alone abroad or within the borders of the US. I do question why you are so vehemently disgusted by the country and yet are on a site like visajourney where people are going through all sorts of pains to make a new life in the country. But that is your right. A right that would be defended in both my country and your country of birth, Australia, which I think is a great country that is facing or will be facing many of the same issues America faces now.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Your posts make kittens cry

They would definitely cry if they knew that I would not use the misinterpreted US constitution, as it stands, to wipe my ###.

There's showing respect for your adopted home!

For your next trick perhaps you'd also like to $hit bomb an army recruiting station or take a wizz on the Alamo.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Your posts make kittens cry

They would definitely cry if they knew that I would not use the US constitution, as it stands, to wipe my ###.

Why not start an island nation with your own form of isolated goverment? Unless of course, there is an existing goverment that suits you.

http://www.nationstates.net/

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The system of government and the constitution are not the same thing, anyway. If we were to compare constitutions, you would find that the Australian constitution is VERY similar to the US constitution. In fact, just about every constitution created since the US constitution was created is relatively similar to the US constitution. That's why I asked my initial question in the first place.

Exactly.

[metta 0]

Your posts make kittens cry

They would definitely cry if they knew that I would not use the misinterpreted US constitution, as it stands, to wipe my ###.

You might want to read the federalist papers

before trashing the US constitution.

[Heracles 417]

You might want to read the <a href="http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedindex.htm" target="_blank">federalist papers

</a>

before trashing the US constitution.

I thought the style of government the federalist proposed, back then, was not implemented. I would support that 100% and think it is the way to go to survive in the 21st century. Most successful countries in the world have a strong federalist style government; which I believe the parliamentary system is similar too.

For ###### sakes, you have convicts suing a state because they do not like they food they are being feed and claim it "breachers the 8th and 14th amendment".

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[almaty 19]

in America, convicts have rights....it is in the constitution...i assume they should get bread and water .....

[Heracles 417]

in America, convicts have rights....it is in the constitution...i assume they should get bread and water .....

What about the victims do they have rights? Or do they have to simply suck it up.

[Heracles 417]

in America, convicts have rights....it is in the constitution...i assume they should get bread and water .....

I was thinking about context. Do you think that at the time the constitution was written they ever imagined that America would have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world? Or that there would be so many gangs running the show in prisons and on the streets. Context is something many, especially the ACLU, need to learn. The ACLU is first in line to speak about somebody's 'rights being violated' but nowhere to be seen when somebody is a victim of crime. A crime which would have probably been avoided if the police had less red tape and greater flexibility to do their job. Somebody is pretty much shot every few days in DC, the nations capitol, yet the ACLU is more concerned about protecting people's homes for being searched for illegal weapons.

I guess that is the difference between the two nations. If the police, for example, anonymously monitoring the net means one less person's life is not destroyed due to being a victim of crime, then sign me up. Rights in my opinion should be earned and most certainly revocable by anyone who breaks the law. Effectively ensuring good honest citizens have it rather than the other way around.

Criminals here need go to Singapore and learn a thing or two about rights and behaving. They will come back a new person.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't think anyone would claim that the US is perfect in every respect. However, to put forth the proposition that the problems that exist in the US are the fault of the US constitution is fanciful to say the least. There is no cause-effect link in any way shape or form.

As for the idea that it would be fun to deprive people of human rights to get them to tow the line...well, is there anything sensible one can say to someone who thinks like that? I don't agree with the 'if you don't like it get out' people, quite honestly you can think whatever you like, it isn't going to effect anyone but yourself. However as usual your line of reasoning leaves me wondering how educated people manage to get themselves into a position where they think that a solution that is worse than the problem is acceptable.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Criminals here need go to Singapore and learn a thing or two about rights and behaving. They will come back a new person.

Like that's going to happen.

"I'm going to go on a trip to Singapore to see if the experience can help with my aberrent behaviour".

It might be a wild guess on my part but I don't think the prison service or the government is about to fund educational expeditions to the far east any time soon.

"Here former inmate with a history of violent crime - have an all-expenses paid trip to Thailand".

Edited March 25, 2008 by Number 6

[almaty 19]

in America, convicts have rights....it is in the constitution...i assume they should get bread and water .....

What about the victims do they have rights? Or do they have to simply suck it up.

no victims have rights too..and in msot states a victims right coordinator in most juriddictions...

but until, the constitution changes convicts have certain legal rights...

the issue is not of rights for me ..but one of control and staffing aptterns, that is, almost all prisons has access to tvs in their cell and cable..as a means of control not of leisure for the criminals...

no state, wants the cost, damage, and possible loss of lives in a riot...

[sj5 4]

Which country legalized ####### sex? USA or Australia?

Edited March 25, 2008 by SJ

[sj5 4]

"Most of the US citizens have enough self-esteem to be indifferent about the judgment of people from other nations. We have our culture, and a very affluent lifestyle. We have freedom and wealth. I don't know which of these other countries are completely free from a road with potholes, ghetto's, or run down areas...but if you think it's going to offer you a better opportunity than you have here, you can give up your visa and leave. That's another benefit of this free society, we don't keep people here against their will...to the contrary, the world fights for a chance to experience this great place."

The biggest employer in southwest Queensland has shut down because of its inability to import foreign workers, prompting calls for urgent reforms to 457 visa requirements.

An export industry worth $30million a year has been lost with the closure of the Western Exporters goat abattoir in Charleville. Ninety staff were laid off on Thursday, including 15 Vietnamese workers who had entered Australia on 457 visas.

Western Exporter proprietor Neil Duncan said the abattoir needed another 60 staff to make it viable, but none could be found.

``We've been throwing away millions of dollars worth of products because we haven't had the people to put them into boxes,'' he said. ``We just can't sustain these losses any longer.''

Mr Duncan said the Immigration Department rejected repeated applications to import more meatworkers from Vietnam.

``The workers in Vietnam are ready and able to come out here,'' he said. ``We've been struggling for 2 1/2 years to get them here but it's come to nothing. We're not alone. Nobody can get workers. It's happening right across regional Australia.''

Murweh Shire Mayor Mark O'Brien said the abattoir failed to meet 457 visa rules requiring Australians to be trained for jobs held by the foreign workers during the four-year span of their visas.

Mr O'Brien said no locals were available. ``There is a chronic shortage of not just skilled labour but unskilled workers,'' he said.

Tam Dinh left his job at a meatworks near Ho Chi Minh City in Vietnam to work at the Charleville abattoir. ``It is very good for us to be working here,'' Mr Dinh said. ``The money is much better in Australia.''

Queensland Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce said the closure was a ``disastrous'' blow to the economy of western Queensland.

He demanded an overhaul of the 457 visa approval process. ``When we start to see Australian businesses shutting down, clearly we have to get moving on this.''

Immigration Minister Chris Evans said he expected to soon receive an interim report on the 457 visa process.

The Australasian Meat Employees Union said the closure was designed to pressure Canberra to allow the abattoir to employ migrants on low wages.

``The minimum wage under the labour agreement, about which Western Exporters seems to be complaining, is around $803,'' said AMIEU secretary Russell Carr. ``I do not think there isanything excessive about paying a skilled tradesperson $803 a week.''

Edited March 25, 2008 by SJ