MENA-One Visa Journey For the Book

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

I read nana's post. No one here is saying that there isn't something such as green card fraud -- but there are quite a few countries known for it that aren't in MENA -- in fact, most of them aren't.

And it isn't part of the "MENA culture" at all -- it's about the fact that there are desperate people in the world who willing to do desperate things, even heartlessly deceive others, to obtain what they want.

It's not nana's fault if her family took part in something like this. She was 9 years old !!! I think she's being very brave and very honest to tell the story here -- but there's no need to snipe at her for it. She's saying it *does* happen, but it's not *the rule* -- just like most American men don't beat their wives or try to steal their money.

I think it would be quite unfair for someone who had an unhappy relationship with an American man to come on this site and make similar warnings to all foreign women who are marrying American men, trying to characterize this type of behavior as being common.

Let go of your anger and resentment at the past. It's over now -- he can't hurt you any more unless you let him be that thorn in your heart. You have a husband that you love and a beautiful daughter and a baby on the way -- you have a family who needs you to be concentrating on them, not the past. All the anger over spilt milk is just a waste of your energy. Embrace your family and your future -- this is what will bring you true happiness.

-MK

[doodlebugg 10]

my mom's mom was my nana. I miss her.

[brnidokiegurl 1]

I also belive this is true, the anger from the past can ruin a future. Things that happen are done, they made us who we are today, if we go into a new relationship looking for these signs, or similarities undoubtly we will not only find them but prob be the cause of them .

[nana_356 0]

  wife_of_mahmoud said:

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

I read nana's post. No one here is saying that there isn't something such as green card fraud -- but there are quite a few countries known for it that aren't in MENA -- in fact, most of them aren't.

And it isn't part of the "MENA culture" at all -- it's about the fact that there are desperate people in the world who willing to do desperate things, even heartlessly deceive others, to obtain what they want.

It's not nana's fault if her family took part in something like this. She was 9 years old !!! I think she's being very brave and very honest to tell the story here -- but there's no need to snipe at her for it. She's saying it *does* happen, but it's not *the rule* -- just like most American men don't beat their wives or try to steal their money.

I think it would be quite unfair for someone who had an unhappy relationship with an American man to come on this site and make similar warnings to all foreign women who are marrying American men, trying to characterize this type of behavior as being common.

Let go of your anger and resentment at the past. It's over now -- he can't hurt you any more unless you let him be that thorn in your heart. You have a husband that you love and a beautiful daughter and a baby on the way -- you have a family who needs you to be concentrating on them, not the past. All the anger over spilt milk is just a waste of your energy. Embrace your family and your future -- this is what will bring you true happiness.

-MK

Wahrania,I did not know of your past experience, as you do not know of mine, all that we both see is a conmputer screen.

But all bull #### aside. I do believe that you are a brave woman to leave the bad situation that you were in, many woman dont, and many woman die of this.

But, you should use that experience as something that has made you stronger, not angrier. I understand your anger, I am angry too, thats why I have no spoken or seen my family since October of 2003. But you have a daughter that may (god forbid) go through the same, or maybe a similar circumstance you will be an example of bravery to her, Please be an example of forgiveness also. I pray that allah brings peace to your heart--Nancy

Edited March 25, 2008 by nana_356

[morocco4ever 63]

I know a large, and I mean LARGE group of men here from Iraq. They are refugees from the Desert Storm. Although they are here and not looking for a visa, I could tell you horror stories about how these men use women to get anything and everything. Trust me, I have seen a lot of SHI#. In fact it was enough ####### that I almost didn't give my husband a chance. I based him on these men I know. SHAME ON ME! I was judging not just my sweet husband, but many men on the few I know. When I met my husband's ex brother in law I was shocked and amazed in the differences between him and the men I know. This is the reason I gave my husband a chance. Now I know how wrong I was to judge all MENA men on the actions of the few. This is the reason I defend them, because I was one that judged.

WOM you are a wise woman, I respect you more than I can say.

Wahrania, you have some experience here, you just need to let go of your anger so you can also see through clear eyes.

Nana, I am sure that it hurts you to know what your family did, and thank you for sharing that with us. I hope you never blame yourself, you were a child.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

  wife_of_mahmoud said:

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

I read nana's post. No one here is saying that there isn't something such as green card fraud -- but there are quite a few countries known for it that aren't in MENA -- in fact, most of them aren't.

And it isn't part of the "MENA culture" at all -- it's about the fact that there are desperate people in the world who willing to do desperate things, even heartlessly deceive others, to obtain what they want.

It's not nana's fault if her family took part in something like this. She was 9 years old !!! I think she's being very brave and very honest to tell the story here -- but there's no need to snipe at her for it. She's saying it *does* happen, but it's not *the rule* -- just like most American men don't beat their wives or try to steal their money.

I think it would be quite unfair for someone who had an unhappy relationship with an American man to come on this site and make similar warnings to all foreign women who are marrying American men, trying to characterize this type of behavior as being common.

Let go of your anger and resentment at the past. It's over now -- he can't hurt you any more unless you let him be that thorn in your heart. You have a husband that you love and a beautiful daughter and a baby on the way -- you have a family who needs you to be concentrating on them, not the past. All the anger over spilt milk is just a waste of your energy. Embrace your family and your future -- this is what will bring you true happiness.

-MK

My husband just got mad at me cause I hadn t called him since the morning...i was cheating on him with WOM and VJ lolololol

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

  wahrania said:

My husband just got mad at me cause I hadn t called him since the morning...i was cheating on him with WOM and VJ lolololol

Go give him some attention, girl -- he misses his wife !

-MK

[Ban Hammer 13,710]

  wahrania said:

actually Lorena was south american and her husband was american LOL

from peru.

[allousa 1]

Olivia,

My heart honestly breaks for you because I remember the times over the last four years that days were very, very dark for me. When my father passed away and my husband couldn't be with me to help me through it, it honestly was a challenge to just keep breathing. There were days that I sought comfort on VJ or message boards because it's hard to talk to family or friends who do not understand the sheer devastating loneliness that you go through during this whole process. I would read many negative comments about MENA men and who they use women and I will admit there were times that I let some of it creep into my mind.

Now our situation is a little different in that I met my husband here in the States and we were married before he ever got stuck in Morocco. But that didn't stop the bad thoughts seeping into my love for him. When you have friends and family questioning your relationship and saying all of the sterotypical stuff about Arabs, while you might deflect it, it still creeps into your thoughts. Perhaps it's a self-protective mode...I don't know.

After all that my husband and I have been through, we've been married for 7 years now, I believe with my whole heart that we went through these times to make our relationship strong and mature us. Had I given up early or listened to all that I read or heard, I wouldn't have my precious, beautiful little boy. I have traveled to places in this world that I never would have and I have learned about a culture and peoples that I might not have. All the knowledge that I have gained would be lost.

I read a quote once (not sure who said it) that "everything you want is on the other side of fear". If the two of you have stood by each other through so much already...keep hanging Olivia.

I would NEVER, EVER want to relive the last four years because it's been the most difficult and rugged journey of my life. I look at it as the biggest, toughest mountain that I've ever had to climb. But when I got to the top a few weeks ago and saw my husband at the airport and knew in that moment, that we would never have to be apart again....all the times that I stumbled and thought it was too high to climb, but I kept going...it made that moment more joyous than I can describe. When I see my husband reading bedtime stories to our son at night or in the kitchen making a meal or even something so small and insignificant as replacing the toilet paper on the holder, I feel wrapped in this man's love for me and my son and cherish every moment.

My hope and prayer for you is that you will find your way through this tough journey and that when you come out the other side and you and your husband are finally together, it will be more wonderful than you can imagine.

[nana_356 0]

  allousa said:

Olivia,

My heart honestly breaks for you because I remember the times over the last four years that days were very, very dark for me. When my father passed away and my husband couldn't be with me to help me through it, it honestly was a challenge to just keep breathing. There were days that I sought comfort on VJ or message boards because it's hard to talk to family or friends who do not understand the sheer devastating loneliness that you go through during this whole process. I would read many negative comments about MENA men and who they use women and I will admit there were times that I let some of it creep into my mind.

Now our situation is a little different in that I met my husband here in the States and we were married before he ever got stuck in Morocco. But that didn't stop the bad thoughts seeping into my love for him. When you have friends and family questioning your relationship and saying all of the sterotypical stuff about Arabs, while you might deflect it, it still creeps into your thoughts. Perhaps it's a self-protective mode...I don't know.

After all that my husband and I have been through, we've been married for 7 years now, I believe with my whole heart that we went through these times to make our relationship strong and mature us. Had I given up early or listened to all that I read or heard, I wouldn't have my precious, beautiful little boy. I have traveled to places in this world that I never would have and I have learned about a culture and peoples that I might not have. All the knowledge that I have gained would be lost.

I read a quote once (not sure who said it) that "everything you want is on the other side of fear". If the two of you have stood by each other through so much already...keep hanging Olivia.

I would NEVER, EVER want to relive the last four years because it's been the most difficult and rugged journey of my life. I look at it as the biggest, toughest mountain that I've ever had to climb. But when I got to the top a few weeks ago and saw my husband at the airport and knew in that moment, that we would never have to be apart again....all the times that I stumbled and thought it was too high to climb, but I kept going...it made that moment more joyous than I can describe. When I see my husband reading bedtime stories to our son at night or in the kitchen making a meal or even something so small and insignificant as replacing the toilet paper on the holder, I feel wrapped in this man's love for me and my son and cherish every moment.

My hope and prayer for you is that you will find your way through this tough journey and that when you come out the other side and you and your husband are finally together, it will be more wonderful than you can imagine.

Very beautifully writen!!

[aisha kandisha 0]

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

Wahrania - Being that your experience with the Palestinian was so horrific, why did you then enter a relationship with a Moroccan and now an Algerian and perhaps others? Is it because you realize they are not all the same?

[allousa 1]

I would like to add my two cents about men of different regions.....

In my life, I have dated a man from Ecuador, one from Cuba, one from Syria, one from Spain, one from Morocco, two good 'ole boys from the South (one that I married to make my family happy) and one from Palestine.

Each one of these men were different in the way that they treated me, some bad and some good and each with their taught customs and heritage. Each man was his own person and in no way was a general representative of his country. They were responsible for their actions and I have learned from each and every one of those relationships.

The man who is now my husband is from Gaza. I have a love with this man like nothing else I have ever experienced. I don't attribute the qualities of our relationship because of the country he is from, but simply from the man he is.

I don't deny that growing up surrounded by a certain culture doesn't affect a person, but I believe each person is responsible for their own actions and how they treat other people. What comes around....goes around!!!! Just say'in!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

  aisha kandisha said:

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

Wahrania - Being that your experience with the Palestinian was so horrific, why did you then enter a relationship with a Moroccan and now an Algerian and perhaps others? Is it because you realize they are not all the same?

Aisha, I spent the majority of my younger life overseas and basically finished my high school years in Sweden. I attended a school in Stockholm , Sweden and lived with a member of the highest socialist party in Sweden. I never in my life knew how Americans were perceived by Europeans and foreigners until I lived there. I actually witnessed the American flag being torn down and our anthem bood and saw first hand european television accounts of 1983 and 1984 and the events in Lebanon with our soldiers.I think that my view are perhaps not delivered correctly but they are tempered with alot of experience, albeit traumatic. I see things perhaps from a different looking glass... a different window.

My experience with Moroccans and Algerians has actually been quite pleasant. The palestinian, well , to say the least was the most awful experience of my life. I actually felt as if all the people around him were complicit in his horrible abuse of me.. Ironically it was one of his friends from Berzeit University who tipped me off to what he was doing by calling me at 3 in the morning.. the brother of the one who tipped me off became furious with his brother for "tipping me off" Together with 5000 dollars in credit card fraud done against me, stacks of fake social security cards in his closet and several palestinians using my address for their mail without my knowledge or permission and visits from the FBI, department of the airforce, the call from his girlfriend offering to come over and confront him together was the one thing I really couldnt handle ( the orange country sherrifs department with ICE looking for him with guns drawn at my front door seemed more explainable... or understandable). I loved him. I became furious at how complicit his friends were for covering for him, lying, calling me telling me he was with me, always it felt like a whole gang was in on his every move, if it wasnt cousins, it was friends, lying, covering, trying to convince me that the punch would be the last, that he loved me, that I was imagining things.. ( the criminal suits arrving in my mailbox for people I didnt know were enough to push me over the edge. ) I loved him. I loved him as much as I was alive and even the day I went into court with a restraining order, he was trying to get around it, telling other people he loved me and that he was mad at everyone else for destroying our marriage...

The relationships that I have had with Moroccan and Algerians have been very postitive. Some of them honestly have been very open about using Americans for papers and basically have told me, girl, you know the deal , what are you doing? I have an opinion on why they blend so easy in the USA. I think its the proximity to Europe and the relationship with France .....language has a great deal to do with it.

I will say it and I will say it again. No one wants to feel not wanted or desired.... As much as I loved the palestinian I married and loved from Ramallah, for the life of me I would never never never ever do it again. The Algerian I am married to was NOT supposed to be a relation for me. I met him in Algeria doing work on a book.

Do I torment him because what has happened to me? Sadly yes. Have I seen and continue to see women affected by greencard fraud? Yes. Should I be quiet about it? Probably. When someone is getting used they usually wont listen anyway and its not till its over do people really need to tell her she is loved and wanted. Getting used for ANY reason can make a person fall apart. I sadly feel like its better if I do not say anything because I want to be happy and post on this forum. Notice everyone used and abused just drifts away and doesnt post anymore. Yes you have seen the women hurt and used. Are they still posting? Not really.. They usually just leave. With no one to talk to.. Sometimes blaming themselves. Its not their fault they were born Americans and someone wanted what they have. Its also not an excuse if you were born poor to emotionally manipulate a woman into believing she is everything to you, taking her love trust and money, and she puts her whole life out there, and boom when you get what you want, leave her. Does this happen? Yes. To deny it is lying to yourself. Is there any forum to talk about it? No. If you talk about it, it depresses people. If you do not talk about it, then when women are screwed over , they have no reference point.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

  aisha kandisha said:

  wahrania said:

wom...I know you are right.......But come on...read nana's post .Doesn't some of these peoples cavalier attitude towards greecard fraud and towards americans piss anyone else off?I just need to be quiet...Sorry....I just get so damned pissed off

Wahrania - Being that your experience with the Palestinian was so horrific, why did you then enter a relationship with a Moroccan and now an Algerian and perhaps others? Is it because you realize they are not all the same?

I absolutely agree that Palestinians do not have a lot in common with Algerians. They are ethnically and culturally very different and Algerians speak French and have a closer relationship with France and Europe than Palestine does. Algeria was successful in throwing out their occupiers. Palestinians were not. Ironically many palestinians have had a difficult time adjusting in Algeria ( there are alot of refugees in Algeria) do to the differences in culture. Even with Algerians all around, many marry within their own. They do not share the same personality or culture with Algeria.

Algeria has not lived under an occupier since 1962. They do not have a monarchy ( king) or a dicator and are truly the only country in MENA that successfully overthrew an occupying country. As corrupt as some people think their government is, its a peoples democracy and that tends to influence their personality. There is no royal family. They lost 1 million in the fight for independence and that victory kind of influences the way they perceive themselves

[aisha kandisha 0]

  wahrania said:

Have I seen and continue to see women affected by greencard fraud? Yes. Should I be quiet about it? Probably. When someone is getting used they usually wont listen anyway and its not till its over do people really need to tell her she is loved and wanted. Getting used for ANY reason can make a person fall apart. I sadly feel like its better if I do not say anything because I want to be happy and post on this forum. Notice everyone used and abused just drifts away and doesnt post anymore. Yes you have seen the women hurt and used. Are they still posting? Not really.. They usually just leave. With no one to talk to.. Sometimes blaming themselves. Its not their fault they were born Americans and someone wanted what they have. Its also not an excuse if you were born poor to emotionally manipulate a woman into believing she is everything to you, taking her love trust and money, and she puts her whole life out there, and boom when you get what you want, leave her. Does this happen? Yes. To deny it is lying to yourself. Is there any forum to talk about it? No. If you talk about it, it depresses people. If you do not talk about it, then when women are screwed over , they have no reference point.

I think the problem some people have is how black and white the green card issue is made out to me. My first husband was an American. He smoked and liked to get tipsy at times. When we got married, those things didn't bother me much. Later on his smoking started getting on my last nerve. I had no tolerance even for his occasional drunken episode. Now it wasn't the cause for our divorce but it shows regardless of nationality, we change and the our views on things change - including our views on our partner. It is the same with bi-national relationships only there can potentially be many more issues that we feel we can overlook at first, especially when we are in the early throes of love. A guy who isn't in the best situation in his country, perhaps without a job, approaching 30 may feel that to marry and have a better life with a woman who cares about him is worth the sacrifice of not having children if she is beyond child-bearing years. A few years pass. Now his life has changed, he is working, his friends my have settled down and had children of their own, and not having children may not be so easy to swallow anymore. It doesn't mean it was fraud although if he says it is over because he wants to have children, the woman may very well feel it was because he knew from the start it wasn't a possibility. It can be the woman first agreeing to him sending money home but later nagging him about it, it can be that they both thought they could be tolerant of each other's religion but as he gets more religious, that sight of the nativity and Christmas tree get on his nerves. I think far more often than outright fraud where he starts with a plan to leave, both people believe they can accept things in their foreign spouse that will later bite them in the behind - and when a person is in a bad situation like many of these men are, it is all that much easier to convince themselves that they can accept those compromises.