if your SO's visa was denied...

[tom&tata 2]

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

[rebeccajo 14]

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Interesting. I see them as the same. Each chose something that causes physical separation. I don't see one as more noble. Both of these men could love their children very much. Why don't you argue this ship's crew member would be better to quit the sea and work three jobs in town as to see his children?

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Kazan' Tiger

[rebeccajo 14]

I want some of what you're smoking, Jeffrey.

BECAUSE.....the guy in the example was still married to their mother! The family was not already decimated.

BECAUSE as if it's not enough trauma for the kiddos already that mom and dad are divorced, one of them wants to run off half way around the world in the name of love?

Interesting. I see them as the same. Each chose something that causes physical separation. I don't see one as more noble. Both of these men could love their children very much. Why don't you argue this ship's crew member would be better to quit the sea and work three jobs in town as to see his children?

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

[tom&tata 2]

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

Would the impact be the same - children grew up without their dad?

Personally, I think both men make their personal choice (whether it is a career or personal happiness) that require them to be away from their children.

My mother choose to be stay at home mom, my sister choose to be working mom. My dad & my brother in law make enough money to pay the bills. Is my sister a worse parent than my mom because she wanted to have a career & a family?

[Alex+R 0]

I didn't ask you to compare the love, but the importance they have in your life. It seems obvious to me that you're saying your relationship with your fiancee is more important than your relationship with your children. If you're saying something different, please correct me.

Also, I think this is the source of some confusion: do you know what an "ion" is? Look it up.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'm not sure its fair that Kazan has become a target on this subject - there are far more women on this site taking their children away from their fathers in order to find love in hte US and I don't see them being asked to explain themselves.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

My problem is with the second "Because" Who said I would "want" to or to "run"? Did you read my previous post to you?

I want some of what you're smoking, Jeffrey.

BECAUSE.....the guy in the example was still married to their mother! The family was not already decimated.

BECAUSE as if it's not enough trauma for the kiddos already that mom and dad are divorced, one of them wants to run off half way around the world in the name of love?

Interesting. I see them as the same. Each chose something that causes physical separation. I don't see one as more noble. Both of these men could love their children very much. Why don't you argue this ship's crew member would be better to quit the sea and work three jobs in town as to see his children?

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

[Alex+R 0]

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

Would the impact be the same - children grew up without their dad?

Personally, I think both men make their personal choice (whether it is a career or personal happiness) that require them to be away from their children.

My mother choose to be stay at home mom, my sister choose to be working mom. My dad & my brother in law make enough money to pay the bills. Is my sister a worse parent than my mom because she wanted to have a career & a family?

No, because the kids would know the dad was doing that because that's what he knew how to do to support them. He'd be doing it out of love for them. It's not the same as the dad choosing to live far from his children because he cares about someone else more.

And a working mom is setting an example for her kids. For me, that made my mom a better mom. (Not saying stay at home moms are doing a disservice to their kids, but for me I appreciated having a working mom.)

I'm not sure its fair that Kazan has become a target on this subject - there are far more women on this site taking their children away from their fathers in order to find love in hte US and I don't see them being asked to explain themselves.

In fact that has been brought up and discussed extensively. It's just that Jeffrey is the only one here defending that particular viewpoint.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Alex, not only my moral compass but English teacher too. You knew what I was saying. No, I am not saying my relationship with Alla is more important. They are different and cannot be prioritized.

I didn't ask you to compare the love, but the importance they have in your life. It seems obvious to me that you're saying your relationship with your fiancee is more important than your relationship with your children. If you're saying something different, please correct me.

Also, I think this is the source of some confusion: do you know what an "ion" is? Look it up.

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm not sure its fair that Kazan has become a target on this subject - there are far more women on this site taking their children away from their fathers in order to find love in hte US and I don't see them being asked to explain themselves.

I think that's a fair statement.

Though many (but not all) of the women I see bringing their children here seem to have ex'es who aren't even in the picture at all. Those guys vanished a long time ago.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

For some reason I have been judged as some unloving, uncaring father ready to abandon his children to the wolves to chase some tail half-way across the world. All because I said I would eventually join my fiancée in her country should her visa be denied.

I'm not sure its fair that Kazan has become a target on this subject - there are far more women on this site taking their children away from their fathers in order to find love in hte US and I don't see them being asked to explain themselves.

[Alex+R 0]

Alex, not only my moral compass but English teacher too. You knew what I was saying. No, I am not saying my relationship with Alla is more important. They are different and cannot be prioritized.

I didn't ask you to compare the love, but the importance they have in your life. It seems obvious to me that you're saying your relationship with your fiancee is more important than your relationship with your children. If you're saying something different, please correct me.

Also, I think this is the source of some confusion: do you know what an "ion" is? Look it up.

Not teaching you English. It's just I think some people thought you were saying they were similar because of the size of an ion.

You don't have to prioritize them in your mind, but that's exactly what you do if you choose to be near someone else over your children. No way around that, no matter how you want to talk around it.

[tom&tata 2]

For us, the subject came up before we decide to get married. If for some reason, my visa is denied, then we would move to my country. It will be super difficult because he cannot get permanent residency just by being married to me or very difficult to get a job. But he will move until we can get solution for him to stay permanently in Indonesia.

With regards to the discussion about parents being separated from their kids, I know 2 families back home whose dad worked as ship crewman (one in cargo ship, the other work for cruise ship). They will be gone for 6 months at least & usually once or week or so their dad will call home. The kids grew up pretty much without their dad but their mom stay at home full time & they were around friends & families. Is their father a bad person for choosing/having a career like that? I mean, they could come up with same amount of income if he works 2 or 3 jobs (and probably would not be home much) but live at home? And being ship crewmen was pretty much all they know how to do.

Not knocking your theory, but making a choice to earn a living away from home to support the family is kind of different than making a choice to be away from the kids for a woman.

btw, it was not a theory. One couple (whose dad works for cargo ship) they stayed married until he retires. They are few years younger than my parents age (in their 60's), the children are my age. The children seem to be doing fine.

The other couple (dad works for cruise ship), they are few years older than me in their mid-late 30's. They got 1 child together, he is probably 4 yo now. The couple got divorced 1 year ago, I heard from my parents. His parents & my parents are neighbours.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I am not talking around it. I don't know what it is you want to draw from me. Tell me and I can try to respond.

Alex, not only my moral compass but English teacher too. You knew what I was saying. No, I am not saying my relationship with Alla is more important. They are different and cannot be prioritized.

I didn't ask you to compare the love, but the importance they have in your life. It seems obvious to me that you're saying your relationship with your fiancee is more important than your relationship with your children. If you're saying something different, please correct me.

Also, I think this is the source of some confusion: do you know what an "ion" is? Look it up.

Not teaching you English. It's just I think some people thought you were saying they were similar because of the size of an ion.

You don't have to prioritize them in your mind, but that's exactly what you do if you choose to be near someone else over your children. No way around that, no matter how you want to talk around it.