A would-be Palestinian suicide bomber explains why she has changed her mind about violence against Israelis

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

How are my numbers in direct contradiction to the official numbers?

I claimed from day one (you can dig up my posts from a couple of years ago where I quoted

the same stats) that the number of successful suicide attacks in Israel is much smaller than

the number of unsuccessful attempts. Why is it so hard to believe that the police and the

intelligence services have actually thwarted many attacks?

Suicide terrorism is hard but not impossible to fight. There are many strategic and tactical

preventive countermeasures that can be used against suicide operations. The IDF may

not be the "epitome of integrity and honesty", but we're not just talking about the IDF - the

police and intelligence services are involved as well.

"Your" numbers obviously *are* in direct contradiction to the official numbers, which are listed in the Wikipedia link I posted in this very thread (information which comes *directly* from official Israeli government sources -- so how can they not be "official" ????)

You claimed (without giving any source) that somehow multiplying the number of successful attacks by 6 equals the "real" number of "attempts." Well I am no math genius, but even I can figure out that 13 successful attempts multiplied by 6 doesn't equal 200, or even 100.

So when are you going to admit that your "math" doesn't add up ?

I don't doubt that some attacks are thwarted -- certainly some by the IDF, and some by Palestinians (sometimes by their own security forces, sometimes by the would-be bomber's own families, or due to other factors.)

But *you* are the one who made the erroneous claim that *Hamas* carried out more than *200* suicide bombing *attacks* in *2001*... which you then revised to 100, then revised to include all Palestinian groups, then revised to include 2001-2002, then revised to include "attempted" attacks, then capped it all off by attributing the whole claim to mysterious "sources" that you won't even name.

And you expect anyone to take you seriously ?

Your debate might get a little more respect if you could at least stick to your premise without constantly switching boats in mid-stream, and if you provided actual sources for your facts and figures instead of making claims with no backative.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm not twisting anything. I may be stubborn but I can admit when I'm wrong, ok?

Would you rather I keep trying to convince you that 200 was the right number?

I claimed attempted attacks right from the start - you can go back and check.

Now you can't even remember what you wrote. Here are your words again:

200 suicide bombings since 1980's?

That's even less than the number of Hamas attacks in 2001.

Remember that Israel's security forces prevent close to 85-90% of suicide missions.

To get the number of actual suicide bomber missions, multiply the number of successful attacks by 6, then compare.

You didn't say "'attempted attacks' right from the start" -- you said "attacks."

Look, the Israelis are very good at preventing attacks, ok? I f###### hate their

airport security. Hate it with a passion. But as much as I hate it, I have to

admit that it works really well. How many planes have been hijacked from

Tel-Aviv's Ben-Gurion Airport in the past 20 years? None.

Are we talking about hijacked planes now, or suicide bombers ? You keep shifting back and forth.

[mawilson 2,133]

You claimed (without giving any source) that somehow multiplying the number of successful attacks by 6 equals the "real" number of "attempts." Well I am no math genius, but even I can figure out that 13 successful attempts multiplied by 6 doesn't equal 200, or even 100.

Well, 13 multiplied by 6 is 78, which is pretty close to 100. If you added Islamic Jihad

and other groups, you would easily get 200 (attempted attacks).

Unfortunately, 85% prevention rate is as good as it gets. There were months in

2001 and 2002 when the ratio of successful to failed attempts was much higher

than 1/6.

The average is actually closer to 1/3-1/4 than 1/6 -- there were over 100 failed

missions in 2001-2002, and I'm sure you know how many "successful" terrorist

attacks had taken place over the same period (about 40+, if memory serves me

right.)

[mawilson 2,133]

200 suicide bombings since 1980's?

That's even less than the number of Hamas attacks in 2001.

Remember that Israel's security forces prevent close to 85-90% of suicide missions.

To get the number of actual suicide bomber missions, multiply the number of successful attacks by 6, then compare.

You didn't say "'attempted attacks' right from the start" -- you said "attacks."

I think it's pretty clear that I was talking about attempted attacks. If I meant

actual, I wouldn't have qualified my statement further by saying you had to

multiply the number by 6.

Not that it matters now, because 6 is the wrong factor - which is why I had to

revise my original number from 200 to 100+.

Edited March 27, 2008 by mawilson

[mawilson 2,133]

Look, the Israelis are very good at preventing attacks, ok? I f###### hate their

airport security. Hate it with a passion. But as much as I hate it, I have to

admit that it works really well. How many planes have been hijacked from

Tel-Aviv's Ben-Gurion Airport in the past 20 years? None.

Are we talking about hijacked planes now, or suicide bombers ? You keep shifting back and forth.

We are talking about all terrorist attacks, including suicide bombers attempting to board a plane.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

You claimed (without giving any source) that somehow multiplying the number of successful attacks by 6 equals the "real" number of "attempts." Well I am no math genius, but even I can figure out that 13 successful attempts multiplied by 6 doesn't equal 200, or even 100.

Well, 13 multiplied by 6 is 78, which is pretty close to 100. If you added Islamic Jihad

and other groups, you would easily get 200 (attempted attacks).

Unfortunately, 85% prevention rate is as good as it gets. There were months in

2001 and 2002 when the ratio of successful to failed attempts was much higher

than 1/6.

The average is actually closer to 1/3-1/4 than 1/6 -- there were over 100 failed

missions in 2001-2002, and I'm sure you know how many "successful" terrorist

attacks had taken place over the same period (about 40+, if memory serves me

right.)

You still haven't given any source at all for your "85% prevention rate" claim. Yet now you want to revise that, too.

Can you just write up all your revisions into a single post to state whatever it is you're claiming now, and stick to it ? We can start all over with that.

200 suicide bombings since 1980's?

That's even less than the number of Hamas attacks in 2001.

Remember that Israel's security forces prevent close to 85-90% of suicide missions.

To get the number of actual suicide bomber missions, multiply the number of successful attacks by 6, then compare.

You didn't say "'attempted attacks' right from the start" -- you said "attacks."

I think it's pretty clear that I was talking about attempted attacks. If I meant

actual, I wouldn't have qualified my statement further by saying you had to

multiply the number by 6.

Not that it matters now, because 6 is the wrong factor - which is why I had to

revise my original number from 200 to 100+.

[mawilson 2,133]

You still haven't given any source at all for your "85% prevention rate" claim. Yet now you want to revise that, too.

Can you just write up all your revisions into a single post to state whatever it is you're claiming now, and stick to it ? We can start all over with that.

Hahaha. Carry on acting like an idiot, WoM.

The 85% prevention rate and the 200 attacks are directly proportional.

If one is wrong, the other one is wrong too.

You can continue to think of it as two separate revisions, you math genius, you

[Risto 0]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

I had a feeling that you would come back with links or copy and paste, which you are so good at. You are special, aren't you? How is your previous incarnation "Hristo" doing?

You can not find baby-suicide bomber in any other culture!

It must be very embarrassing to you.

Of course, it is not my culture. What are you talking about? Have you been reading my posts? Or do you need a reading lesson? You should be ashamed of yourself, since many think you are a troll and your previous incarnation "Hristo" got kicked out from VJ.

Baby-suicide bomber culture is the one you are supporting. Either because of your poisoned by hate narrow mind or stupidity. Indeed this is very embarrassing.

[simple_male 1]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

I had a feeling that you would come back with links or copy and paste, which you are so good at. You are special, aren't you? How is your previous incarnation "Hristo" doing?

You can not find baby-suicide bomber in any other culture!

It must be very embarrassing to you.

Of course, it is not my culture. What are you talking about? Have you been reading my posts? Or do you need a reading lesson? You should be ashamed of yourself, since many think you are a troll and your previous incarnation "Hristo" got kicked out from VJ.

Baby-suicide bomber culture is the one you are supporting. Either because of your poisoned by hate narrow mind or stupidity. Indeed this is very embarrassing.

Definitely, you need a reading lesson. Then come and read my posts again. Who cares what you think?