A would-be Palestinian suicide bomber explains why she has changed her mind about violence against Israelis

[mawilson 2,133]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

[Amby 490]

suicide bombers are all idiots in my opinion. they can't think of anything better to do to try and make peace so they just blow sh*t up.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Let's just say Eelam is still just a dream

[Peikko 1,575]

Blowing yourself up to attract attention to your difficulties would seem to be one of those cut of your nose to spite your face actions.

However, I will say that unless you live through an intractable conflict, it's very difficult to put yourself into the mindset of those who do. The logic one applies during times of peace are not those that one applies during periods of conflict. This is not a justification for violence, but it is an explanation of how it isn't possible to really understand what appears to be inexplicable without this kind of experience.

I think I just tied myself up in a convoluted sentence! Ahhhhhhhhh.

[sandinista! 1,816]

haha...first it's "how many people". then it turns into number of attacks, including some secret, source-less number of foiled attacks that's a direct contradiction of how many are listed on wikipedia's entry, that includes the idf's website and the israel ministry of of foreign affairs website as their sources. and we're expected to believe all of this at face value, with not a single source listed to back up this contradiction. yeah, sure you betcha.

keep reaching...

[mawilson 2,133]

haha...first it's "how many people". then it turns into number of attacks, including some secret, source-less number of foiled attacks that's a direct contradiction of how many are listed on wikipedia's entry, that includes the idf's website and the israel ministry of of foreign affairs website as their sources.

How are my numbers in direct contradiction to the official numbers?

I claimed from day one (you can dig up my posts from a couple of years ago where I quoted

the same stats) that the number of successful suicide attacks in Israel is much smaller than

the number of unsuccessful attempts. Why is it so hard to believe that the police and the

intelligence services have actually thwarted many attacks?

Suicide terrorism is hard but not impossible to fight. There are many strategic and tactical

preventive countermeasures that can be used against suicide operations. The IDF may

not be the "epitome of integrity and honesty", but we're not just talking about the IDF - the

police and intelligence services are involved as well.

[simple_male 1]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

Edited March 26, 2008 by simple_male

[mawilson 2,133]

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I'm not twisting anything. I may be stubborn but I can admit when I'm wrong, ok?

Would you rather I keep trying to convince you that 200 was the right number?

I claimed attempted attacks right from the start - you can go back and check.

Look, the Israelis are very good at preventing attacks, ok? I f###### hate their

airport security. Hate it with a passion. But as much as I hate it, I have to

admit that it works really well. How many planes have been hijacked from

Tel-Aviv's Ben-Gurion Airport in the past 20 years? None.

[Risto 0]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

[GabiandVi 34]

Obviously there is a lot of history between the people posting about which I am unaware, but as an impartial observer, someone who does not sympathize with Isreal's actions toward the Palestinians, I must say that the article sounded like good news to me. I can only imagine how a people oppressed for so long would find nuances to statements and questions that seem straightforward to people on the outside, but I think we have to remember that the intended audience is for people like me. I think people like me need to read more and more of these types of articles showing that there are large numbers of Palestinians who do not condone violence. I always read that these people exist but they are not given a voice or that the articles are written but are not given the attention they should be. I'm glad to read any article like this I can, on both sides of this issue and other issues like this.

If you will read my post again, you will see that my problem with the article was not that it showed that there are many Palestinians who don't condone violence against civilians (of COURSE there are -- only an ignoramus or a bigot wouldn't realize that.)

I am saying that the "reporter" gave no context at all -- she portrayed the issue of "suicide bombings" as the sum of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

And what I was trying diplomatically to say is that this sort of information is usually lost to the reports of suicide bombers and when it does slip through and the reaction to it is that the reporter is bigoted and trying to slant the message against the Palestinians, we are distracted again by the hatred. It makes those of us who are not Isreali, not Jewish, not Palestinian, not Muslim want to throw our arms up. We were happy to embrace the woman and now we are being labeled stupid because we don't pick up on that slant. All we pick up on is the message of hope that one person at least on one side of the conflict has rethought her violent leanings despite the oppression she has suffered. We admire her for her ability to rise above the treatment that motivated her to want to act violently in the first place.

And I think only an ignoramous would not know the context of the Palestinian-Isreali conflict. But perhaps you count everyone but yourself as an ingnoramous.

[wishbone 0]

Hope her changes of minds and new advocacy reach other rebels' mind. I may not understand what's something in return of all those suicide bombers involving innocent public, but talking must be takes place first and hear their side and who they are against.

[simple_male 1]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

I had a feeling that you would come back with links or copy and paste, which you are so good at. You are special, aren't you? How is your previous incarnation "Hristo" doing?

[Risto 0]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

I had a feeling that you would come back with links or copy and paste, which you are so good at. You are special, aren't you? How is your previous incarnation "Hristo" doing?

You can not find baby-suicide bomber in any other culture!

It must be very embarrassing to you.

[simple_male 1]

Actually, you don't know this for a fact.

I can't tell you how I know, but I'm sure you can guess.

I have no idea how many unsuccessful operations the Tamil Tigers had. Probably not that many.

Israel is a very small country where people tend to keep an eye out for suspicious activity.

Most buildings (malls, supermarkets, bus stations, clubs, restaurants) have security guards

checking bags at the entrances to their premises. The intelligence services are quite

good at tracking this sort of activity and have broad authority to monitor telephone and

Internet communications.

Don't dismiss their activities as inconsequential.

I am saying that the IDF makes a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated. They fire missiles at wedding parties, they drop bombs on families picnicking on the beach, they shoot schoolgirls in the head, and they always claim they were aiming at "militants." This is a country that doesn't even HAVE a death penalty (not even for the man who assassinated their prime minister) -- yet they conduct hundreds of extrajudicial assassinations of alleged "suspects" whom they don't even have to convict in a court of law. They routinely excuse, pardon, or even promote their soldiers for committing war crimes.

So I just don't buy your assertion that they are the epitome of integrity and honesty.

And as for your absurd "I can't tell you how I know" -- this does not qualify as a convincing reference for your (now vastly reduced) claim of 100 "attempted" suicide attacks in 2001 (which you have now revised to 2001-2002, as well as revised to include *all" groups, not just Hamas.)

As usual, you try to shift the goalposts when you can't manage to score.

mawilson is good at twisting numbers, first he said, there were much more than 200 attacks by hamas in 2001, then he wanted to include other groups with hamas, and again, finally he claimed 100 "attempted" suicide attacks. Good Job. I can feel that soon Risto (current incarnation of Hristo) will come and copy and paste something.

I agree with amber that the suicide bombers are idiots no matter what religious label they put on.

How abot this?

BEWARE: Baby at the corner!, Al-Qaida is using kids. Palestinians: every child is qualified.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...y+at+the+corner

I had a feeling that you would come back with links or copy and paste, which you are so good at. You are special, aren't you? How is your previous incarnation "Hristo" doing?

You can not find baby-suicide bomber in any other culture!

It must be very embarrassing to you.

Of course, it is not my culture. What are you talking about? Have you been reading my posts? Or do you need a reading lesson? You should be ashamed of yourself, since many think you are a troll and your previous incarnation "Hristo" got kicked out from VJ.

Edited March 27, 2008 by simple_male