Pat Buchanan: Black Americans should be grateful we brought them over on slave ships!

[HAL 9000 96]

Ok so what do you say in 2008? Black people are just generally inferior? Or are they genetically predisposed to violence and having children out of wedlock?

Don't give me that are they inferior #######. Black Americans are what they make themselves to be. They have the same opportunities as everyone else, if not more considering they are a "minority". It is their choice whether they become involved in crime or pursue a legitimate career. It is their choice as a community to allow their neighborhood, in ghettos, to be trashed rather than get together and spend a day cleaning it up. It is their choice to abandon free education and basically piss on the progress made by Brown vs Board of Education.

Try being born again as an African American and then come back to gripe all you want from the same illogical perspective, please.

[Alex+R 0]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Yes because the African continent was so peaceful prior to slavery. Last time I checked the news, today, Africans are still butchering each other in various nations there. So let me see what is worse, slavery or genocide...

People have to right to go back home. If I was a slave in somebody else's country I would have left the first chance I got. What do you want white Americans to do in 2008? Should they all take a flogging for the past actions of 1.5% of Americans who owned slaves. Should I look up your ancestor heritage and hold you responsible for their actions?

Again - that isn't the point either. Noone is holding people of today directly responsible for their cultural history or the actions of their ancestors - but like it or not we have inherited that history. For better or worse.

I don't really see the point in harboring so much resentment or hanging on to the past like this. It's good to remember it, but to constantly use it as a "reason" for whatever action or dilemma your group performs or faces is a bit much.

I'm Jewish and I don't blame today's Germans for what their fathers and grandfathers (or in some cases, I suppose great-grandfathers) did to my people. These Germans weren't responsible for it and the Holocaust ended a little over 60 years ago. Compare that to slavery, which is much further removed from those of us living today (either as slave or slave-owner) since it occurred more than 200 years ago! Yet for some reason, African Americans are still clinging to this event and demanding that each successive generation of non-black Americans pay for the damage done to "African Americans as a whole."

As far as I can see, something is amiss there. Besides, if I really wanted to get picky and start claiming "reperations" from countries or people whose ancestors had somehow "wronged the Jews" in the past, I'd had to stake a claim in practically every country across the globe -- especially in Europe and the Middle East.

Am I doing that? No, of course not. It'd be stupid. Do you know why? None of that stuff happened to me! For the most part, I have been fortunate enough to live a very comfortable existance here in the United States. I have never known slavery, pogroms, discrimination or genocide (among other things, all of which have been levied upon the Jews in previous years), so I have no right to ask for anything from any country.

"Colored-only" water fountains, not being able to sit at the lunch counter, and having to sit at the back of the bus are all more recent than some would like to think. Certainly my parents are old enough to remember when this was the norm in some parts of the country.

Many people would like to forget about these events in relatively recent history and adopt a "get over it" mentality as if church burnings stopped 150 years ago.

I admit that I don't know enough about the actual reparations demands that some groups are making. I think that the right likes to point to this as if it's part of the mainstream African American movement, and it isn't. There are some compelling stories, mainly from the South, about black families in the early 1900s and 1910s who were driven out of certain towns under threat of death. Their houses and property were stolen from them. Some of their descendants, in seeking some type of compensation, are being told, "Well, there's not a whole lot we can do about this now!" even though local records clearly show that the land was essentially stolen. One of the (white) lawyers representing the county admitted that his family's wealth largely came from landholdings. That is, the same person whose argument is basically, "Sorry, this was a long time ago" will inherit a house and land that have been in his family since the 1880s. Long time ago indeed.

The fact is, racism is still rampant in this country. Fortunately, black people aren't being run off their land anymore, but come on. The joke about being pulled over for "driving while Black" (was that Chris Rock?) has its basis in reality. I'm sure that every black person in this country has stories about being on the receiving end of shabby treatment, or suspicious looks, or even verbal of physical assault because of what they look like. To compare the experiences of black people with those of, say, Jews in America or the Irish in Boston in the late 1800s is ludicrous. If you're white, your experience is going to be different. That's just the way it is right now.

It's easy to say, "Well, if they'd just get it together and remove the negative associations, there wouldn't be racism!" as if it's going to happen overnight. A lot of people would just as soon forget that the civil rights movement happened only a couple of generations ago. Of course there's going to be simmering hostility. How would you feel if you knew your grandmother or mother had been spit on because of what she looked like, or your dad beaten with a baton for "walking while black"? I know I'd be pissed off.

I was in Holland about 10 years ago in a bar (would you believe), and two drunk American guys were talking with a couple of German girls about the Holocaust. The American guys were being sort of abusive, asking how it was possible that such a thing could happen in modern times, what is it about the German mentality that allowed this to happen. I couldn't help but think of a couple of documentaries I'd seen not long before, one about the Montgomery bus boycott in the 1950s and, perhaps even more disturbing because of its recency, footage of the busing riots in Boston in the 1970s. Kids' parents were throwing rocks at buses full of black kids because they didn't want the schools integrated! This happened in my lifetime in one of the most progressive cities in the country. !!! Yeah, get over it, it's ancient history.

Just some thoughts...

:thumbs:

Best post of the day!

PS Is this what you're looking for?

[Peikko 1,575]

Yeah, get over it, it's ancient history.

I am the first of my family to step foot on this continent. Should I too have to pay / suffer for the consequences of the past. Be it the 60's or 1800.

When there was a colored-only fountain policy why didn't people just pack up and leave. Why doesn't Wright go back to where he came from since he hates the white man and Europeans so much.

What consequences are you paying/suffering exactly?

[HAL 9000 96]

Again - that isn't the point either. Noone is holding people of today directly responsible for their cultural history or the actions of their ancestors - but like it or not we have inherited that history. For better or worse.

I still do not understand what you want white America to do. You say I am missing the point and all you can do is state the obvious. Yes it happened I am not denying, now what?

I'm not sure I see the parallels with Greece, Turkey and the Ottoman empire to what we're talking about here, or indeed why you're so obsessed with it.

What exactly is your point? That you only want to look at superficial details as a pretext to slamming social and ethnic groups?

As I say, I'm not denying the problems endemic to the inner city - I'm just wondering why you don't really want to discuss them as much as point your finger and accuse.

Lol. I like your pick n choose approach. So basically it is okay for Palestinians and Black Americans to hold grudges but not anyone else.

I am not pointing the finger at anyone. What I am saying it is time to move on and stop using history as an excuse. History that anyone born after 1980 was not even part of; yet acts as if it happened yesterday to them personally.

Lets rephrase it the other way... what do you want African Americans to do? Obviously history is of little concern to you, so what do you propose?

More realistically, I think African Americans can name what they want to be able to get a more level playing field: end to racial profiling, real access to financial resources, proper political representation as equal members of American society, etc. Its not 40 acres and a mule that they're asking for probably but it sure would be nice for that 'promise' to be fulfilled too.

[Heracles 417]

Why don't you donate all your money to Bill Cosby, finger-pointing talk show hosts or right-wing fringe groups?

I see what's going on now. You fixate on "certain people" as an excuse to ignore a mainstream debate.

Nice try. You're the one who is fixated on history. Effectively finger-pointing whitey for the community's perils. Last time I checked the year it isn't the 60's, it is 2008. The solution is actually quite simple. Go get a legitimate job. Go get an education. Take care of your community. Even Alex+R should be able to figure that one out.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Alex+R 0]

Yeah, get over it, it's ancient history.

I am the first of my family to step foot on this continent. Should I too have to pay / suffer for the consequences of the past. Be it the 60's or 1800.

When there was a colored-only fountain policy why didn't people just pack up and leave. Why doesn't Wright go back to where he came from since he hates the white man and Europeans so much.

Since that's your attitude, why don't you pick up and leave since you hate it here so much? At least Wright is a citizen. All you do is complain about this country. If it's so beneath you to live here OR do anything constructive to change things (although heaven forbid things change the way you want them to), then go back to Australia. Trust me, nobody will miss you.

[HAL 9000 96]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Yes because the African continent was so peaceful prior to slavery. Last time I checked the news, today, Africans are still butchering each other in various nations there. So let me see what is worse, slavery or genocide...

People have to right to go back home. If I was a slave in somebody else's country I would have left the first chance I got. What do you want white Americans to do in 2008? Should they all take a flogging for the past actions of 1.5% of Americans who owned slaves. Should I look up your ancestor heritage and hold you responsible for their actions?

Again - that isn't the point either. Noone is holding people of today directly responsible for their cultural history or the actions of their ancestors - but like it or not we have inherited that history. For better or worse.

I don't really see the point in harboring so much resentment or hanging on to the past like this. It's good to remember it, but to constantly use it as a "reason" for whatever action or dilemma your group performs or faces is a bit much.

I'm Jewish and I don't blame today's Germans for what their fathers and grandfathers (or in some cases, I suppose great-grandfathers) did to my people. These Germans weren't responsible for it and the Holocaust ended a little over 60 years ago. Compare that to slavery, which is much further removed from those of us living today (either as slave or slave-owner) since it occurred more than 200 years ago! Yet for some reason, African Americans are still clinging to this event and demanding that each successive generation of non-black Americans pay for the damage done to "African Americans as a whole."

As far as I can see, something is amiss there. Besides, if I really wanted to get picky and start claiming "reperations" from countries or people whose ancestors had somehow "wronged the Jews" in the past, I'd had to stake a claim in practically every country across the globe -- especially in Europe and the Middle East.

Am I doing that? No, of course not. It'd be stupid. Do you know why? None of that stuff happened to me! For the most part, I have been fortunate enough to live a very comfortable existance here in the United States. I have never known slavery, pogroms, discrimination or genocide (among other things, all of which have been levied upon the Jews in previous years), so I have no right to ask for anything from any country.

Great historical sketch. Lets remember that Germany had a major cultural and economical restructuring post WWII that took some years to complete. The Reparations that followed the Abolition of slavery in the USA were very minor comparatively, independent of temporal separation between the events in question and the present time.

Plus German Jews do not live a depressed reality that is comparative to that of African Americans.

Plus I do not think the majority of African Americans are playing the blame game all that much. They are very most likely just trying to get by on the reality that they call life, as a generalized community, I mean.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

How easy it is to be ignorant of history... or just ignore it. Either way, its not an excuse for judging what clearly you do not wish to understand.

Yes. I just look at the current reality of who, as a percentage, is committing the majority of crimes in both America and against fellow brothers in Africa. Last time I checked they where not white.

the truth hurts

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Yeah, get over it, it's ancient history.

I am the first of my family to step foot on this continent. Should I too have to pay / suffer for the consequences of the past. Be it the 60's or 1800.

When there was a colored-only fountain policy why didn't people just pack up and leave. Why doesn't Wright go back to where he came from since he hates the white man and Europeans so much.

Yes, they could have used their frequent flyer miles.

Just out of curiosity, Boo-Yah, what did you make of Rabbit Proof Fence? As a good Australian, I assume you've seen it? Do you see any parallels?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why don't you donate all your money to Bill Cosby, finger-pointing talk show hosts or right-wing fringe groups?

I see what's going on now. You fixate on "certain people" as an excuse to ignore a mainstream debate.

Nice try. You're the one who is fixated on history. Effectively finger-pointing whitey for the community's perils. Last time I checked the year isn't the 60's, it is 2008. The solution is actually quite simple. Go get a legitimate job. Go get an education. Take care of your community. Even Alex+R should be able to figure that one out.

Nice try...? Of what exactly? You keep bringing up "Wright" and "certain people" and putting them in the forefront of your argument.

I mention history because I think its relevant to understanding the past, and indeed - what is going on at the present time. You want to ignore that it has any bearing whatsoever on the present and pretend that its a black and white issue where the blame is all on one group of people.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How easy it is to be ignorant of history... or just ignore it. Either way, its not an excuse for judging what clearly you do not wish to understand.

Yes. I just look at the current reality of who, as a percentage, is committing the majority of crimes in both America and against fellow brothers in Africa. Last time I checked they where not white.

the truth hurts

Most serial killers are white males. What does that say? We could go on and on with statistics of crimes based on the physical characteristics of criminals.

[Heracles 417]

Lets rephrase it the other way... what do you want African Americans to do? Obviously history is of little concern to you, so what do you propose?

More realistically, I think African Americans can name what they want to be able to get a more level playing field: end to racial profiling, real access to financial resources, proper political representation as equal members of American society, etc. Its not 40 acres and a mule that they're asking for probably but it sure would be nice for that 'promise' to be fulfilled too.

Start by not blaming whitey for their perils. Followed by obeying the law. Then actually taking responsibility for their actions and circumstances. Did whitey turn their neighborhood into a hood and ghetto. Therefore start cleaning up and taking care of your community.

Financial Resources you say. It is called EBT as well as a free education.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How easy it is to be ignorant of history... or just ignore it. Either way, its not an excuse for judging what clearly you do not wish to understand.

Yes. I just look at the current reality of who, as a percentage, is committing the majority of crimes in both America and against fellow brothers in Africa. Last time I checked they where not white.

the truth hurts

No it doesn't - noone has denied this.

But BY demonstrates patently, that this is where his argument stops... with the finger of blame.

Lets rephrase it the other way... what do you want African Americans to do? Obviously history is of little concern to you, so what do you propose?

More realistically, I think African Americans can name what they want to be able to get a more level playing field: end to racial profiling, real access to financial resources, proper political representation as equal members of American society, etc. Its not 40 acres and a mule that they're asking for probably but it sure would be nice for that 'promise' to be fulfilled too.

Start by not blaming whitey for their perils. Followed by obeying the law. Then actually taking responsibility for their actions and circumstances. Did whitey turn their neighborhood into a hood and ghetto. Therefore start cleaning up and taking care of your community.

Financial Resources you say. It is called EBT as well as a free education.

I'm sure the mayors of Baltimore and Detroit (amongst others) will thank you for your profound statements on how to clean up their respective cities.

[HAL 9000 96]

Yeah, get over it, it's ancient history.

I am the first of my family to step foot on this continent. Should I too have to pay / suffer for the consequences of the past. Be it the 60's or 1800.

When there was a colored-only fountain policy why didn't people just pack up and leave. Why doesn't Wright go back to where he came from since he hates the white man and Europeans so much.

Slave labor built the foundations of the US economy. If ever there was entitlement to a fair piece of the pie, this would be it. Its called reparations that are as yet forthcoming.

And sadly, that will not be paid.

Again, a better understanding of history would suit you best. Perhaps starting with Aboriginal land rights and working your way back, yes? Then maybe an objective analysis of African slavery will point you to the creation of very separate realities for present day Aboriginies versus African Americans on two different continent that arose as a result of their histories.

[Heracles 417]

Yes, they could have used their frequent flyer miles.

Just out of curiosity, Boo-Yah, what did you make of Rabbit Proof Fence? As a good Australian, I assume you've seen it? Do you see any parallels?

They are called ships. Might want to read up on them sometime as thousands of immigrants used them with little or no money.

Yes and that whole situation proves that it has a lot to do with culture. Some cultures progress others sit there and blame whitey for their problems.