Pat Buchanan: Black Americans should be grateful we brought them over on slave ships!

[HAL 9000 96]

How easy it is to be ignorant of history... or just ignore it. Either way, its not an excuse for judging what clearly you do not wish to understand.

Yes. I just look at the current reality of who, as a percentage, is committing the majority of crimes in both America and against fellow brothers in Africa. Last time I checked they where not white.

Doing the white man's bidding no less .

If it were that simple to see then the problem would be all the easier to fix. See oranges on an apple tree if you like.

How easy it is to be ignorant of history... or just ignore it. Either way, its not an excuse for judging what clearly you do not wish to understand.

Yes. I just look at the current reality of who, as a percentage, is committing the majority of crimes in both America and against fellow brothers in Africa. Last time I checked they where not white.

The thing is noone disputes this. Some people do however want to have a discussion as to why that is - rather than allow surface details to speak for a reason.

Its like trying to make a symptom the root of the actual problem the cause, 6. And that is neither realistic nor accurate. Ignorance of history and its repercussions is precisely what has the current reality so dicey.

[HAL 9000 96]

For the 2000th time - I do not "blame" slavery for today's specific inner city problems of crime and truancy. I do however think a historical context is necessary to understand the racial divide, which is as much about class as it is anything else.

Of course there will be a racial divide. Human nature, we stick to our own kind. The problem is exacerbated when a group of people refuses to let go of the past and refuses to integrate with anyone else of a certain skin color.

Your dam straight there is a "cultural divide". I am not interested in a Palestinian style historical event to justify inner city crimes and ghettos. There should be two options presented to clowns like Wright. Either integrate and treat everyone as an equal here. Or using DNA tests we can find out where he is originally from and fly him over there; with restitution but he is never to come back. I wasn't even born here so why should I be the scapegoat simply because I am white.

Even if this was the 1800's. Why should the other 98.5% of Americans who did NOT own slaves have to pay for the actions of the 1.5% who did. Over 3% of African Americans are incarcerated. Should we start saying that they 'don't understand our non tribal culture' and are criminals and use this as a reason to treat them poorly. Point being it works both ways. Or is being a victim of violence in 2008 not as bad as someone who's ancestors where slaves centuries ago.

PS What I find really funny is how when someone black in the NE is poor then it's the usual racism, slavery, whitey to blame. Yet once they are successful in this same white man's nation, then Black power is to thank for that..

Easier said than done. Bygones are not let go into oblivion when reality sets in and reminds us all that these communities are still living as a group separate, and not equal of the rest of the nation. Blame is easy to point and is not sought after. Thinking about actually improving things is the issue at hand and while a hindrance to progress does exist when the victims of history refuse to move on completely, the benefactors of history also must meet them and be ready to continue to do so.

Arguing absolute numbers (very different than those you quote) is not only foolish, as an entire society, culture, and political system was born of such an unjust system of ownership, but it is also ignorant of the realities that exist as a consecuence of the progress of that same system that has born fruits of hatred to this day. One sided casality... no. We, I believe are at the point in history where those injustices of the past are now finally beginning to heal the more sublte tones of hurt in the communities that have suffered the brunt of history's realities. And the road ahead is obviously a very long one.

This means that for those that take issue with the symptomatic behavior of others... it will be a very bumpy road ahead. Many prefudicial bejaviors are yet to surface in some as this road bumps them up.

[HAL 9000 96]

Boo Yah - there may have not been plantations in the north east or chicago but black people did not arrive in those areas directly from a ship in Africa. You might want to read up a little on US history in the late 19th century, especially the Great Migration before you make your agruments here.

Yep.

What he seems to be unable to grasp is the concept of lingering social inequalities. Inequalities that overwhelmingly beset one particular ethnicity more than any other, who occupy the nations inner cities.

Noone is saying that its an end in itself either - simply to look at what happened in the relatively recent past (this country isn't that old after all), and the current conditions today. Is he going to seriously argue that there isn't a relationship?

Exactly. And the relationship IS changing for the better. Give us a century and I think society, from the race point of view, will be a much more even playing field. Until then we'll continue to have uneven minds touting the symptomatic peculiarities of the process over the causal aspects of the entire phenomenon.

[Heracles 417]

Guys do you need me to bring the Kleenex. Don't give me this ####### that someone black born after the 80's had it hard and was suppressed. Funny how the richest woman in America does not have this issue.

I am sure you guys hate Bill Cosby and his opinions. After all it is whiteys fault that 75% of black American children in 2008 are born to single mothers. Do you think being raised like this has nothing to do with a kids future prosperity and gang activity? We can talk about the past 50, 100, 200 years all you like but I prefer to focus on the year we live in 2008.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Jenn! 918]

Guys do you need me to bring the Kleenex. Don't give me this ####### that someone black born after the 80's had it hard and was suppressed. Funny how the richest woman in America does not have this issue.

I am sure you guys hate Bill Cosby and his opinions. After all it is whiteys fault that 75% of black American children in 2008 are born to single mothers. Do you think being raised like this has nothing to do with a kids future prosperity and gang activity? We can talk about the past 50, 100, 200 years all you like but I prefer to focus on the year we live in 2008.

Ok so what do you say in 2008? Black people are just generally inferior? Or are they genetically predisposed to violence and having children out of wedlock?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Guys do you need me to bring the Kleenex. Don't give me this ####### that someone black born after the 80's had it hard and was suppressed. Funny how the richest woman in America does not have this issue.

I am sure you guys hate Bill Cosby and his opinions. After all it is whiteys fault that 75% of black American children in 2008 are born to single mothers. Do you think being raised like this has nothing to do with a kids future prosperity and gang activity? We can talk about the past 50, 100, 200 years all you like but I prefer to focus on the year we live in 2008.

Once again - you're missing what we're saying. You have to understand or at least be aware of the past to make sense of what is going on now. Its not as though the civil rights movement was that long ago - within living memory in fact. Can we achieve an egalitarian society within the space of 40-50 years? It seems rather optimistic IMO.

Noone is denying, justifying or excusing inner city problems.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Number 6

[BobandXiaomei 14]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

[Heracles 417]

Once again - you're missing what we're saying. You have to understand or at least be aware of the past to make sense of what is going on now. Its not as though the civil rights movement was that long ago - within living memory in fact. Can we achieve an egalitarian society within the space of 40-50 years? It seems rather optimistic IMO.

Noone is denying, justifying or excusing inner city problems.

Missing or ignoring. Much like the situation in Palestine I am not interested in the semantics of who is to blame. If we all thought along those lines the world would be at war again because somebody has stepped on somebody else's toes at one stage or another.

Greece and Turkey, for example, should start a war as Greece should reclaim Constantinople. Would you support that and have the same compassion for the Greeks considering the atrocities committed by the Ottoman empire there?

[DeadPoolX 9]

Guys do you need me to bring the Kleenex. Don't give me this ####### that someone black born after the 80's had it hard and was suppressed. Funny how the richest woman in America does not have this issue.

I am sure you guys hate Bill Cosby and his opinions. After all it is whiteys fault that 75% of black American children in 2008 are born to single mothers. Do you think being raised like this has nothing to do with a kids future prosperity and gang activity? We can talk about the past 50, 100, 200 years all you like but I prefer to focus on the year we live in 2008.

Ok so what do you say in 2008? Black people are just generally inferior? Or are they genetically predisposed to violence and having children out of wedlock?

I think the major bone of contention here is why have many other minorities been able to, for the most part, make their lives much better without relying on government assistance or playing some sort of "woe-is-me" act. I'm sure there are some African Americans who really are disadvantaged due to circumstance beyond their control, but I believe there are many more who could do quite a bit themselves to improve their situation.

What I've found tends to annoy a lot of people is the attitude of "I deserve whatever I want since my ancestors were slaves" given off by a number of African Americans. That's a ridiculous stance. You don't deserve squat; perhaps your ancestors did, but you've never been a slave. You get to enjoy all the same rights and freedoms as any other American in the United States.

Look at two other very discriminated groups -- the Irish and the Jews. Instead of complaining and "demanding their rights," along with handouts from the government, the Irish and the Jews decided to "beat their oppressors" at their own game. The best way to get revenge (if you're so inclined) is by becoming successful; not by pestering everyone until they're forced to give you what you want. Doing so only breeds resentment.

I think many Americans -- regardless of race, ethnicity, religion or sex -- tend to forget that we do not have the unconditional "right to happiness" in this country. All that was ever said is that we have "the right to pursue happiness" which is much different from actually attaining it.

[Heracles 417]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Yes because the African continent was so peaceful prior to slavery. Last time I checked the news, today, Africans are still butchering each other in various nations there. So let me see what is worse, slavery or genocide...

People have to right to go back home. If I was a slave in somebody else's country I would have left the first chance I got. What do you want white Americans to do in 2008? Should they all take a flogging for the past actions of 1.5% of Americans who owned slaves. Should I look up your ancestor heritage and hold you responsible for their actions?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Once again - you're missing what we're saying. You have to understand or at least be aware of the past to make sense of what is going on now. Its not as though the civil rights movement was that long ago - within living memory in fact. Can we achieve an egalitarian society within the space of 40-50 years? It seems rather optimistic IMO.

Noone is denying, justifying or excusing inner city problems.

Missing or ignoring. Much like the situation in Palestine I am not interested in the semantics of who is to blame. If we all thought along those lines the world would be at war again because somebody has stepped on somebody else's toes at one stage or another.

Greece and Turkey, for example, should start a war as Greece should reclaim Constantinople. Would you support that and have the same compassion for the Greeks considering the atrocities committed by the Ottoman empire there?

I'm not sure I see the parallels with Greece, Turkey and the Ottoman empire to what we're talking about here, or indeed why you're so obsessed with it.

What exactly is your point? That you only want to look at superficial details as a pretext to slamming social and ethnic groups?

As I say, I'm not denying the problems endemic to the inner city - I'm just wondering why you don't really want to discuss them as much as point your finger and accuse.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Yes because the African continent was so peaceful prior to slavery. Last time I checked the news, today, Africans are still butchering each other in various nations there. So let me see what is worse, slavery or genocide...

People have to right to go back home. If I was a slave in somebody else's country I would have left the first chance I got. What do you want white Americans to do in 2008? Should they all take a flogging for the past actions of 1.5% of Americans who owned slaves. Should I look up your ancestor heritage and hold you responsible for their actions?

Again - that isn't the point either. Noone is holding people of today directly responsible for their cultural history or the actions of their ancestors - but like it or not we have inherited that history. For better or worse.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Just for the record, the United States was far from the only country in the world to ever have the institution of slavery. I think this concept escapes some individuals (particularly Americans, who fail to look at the histories of other nations and cultures) when they like to lay the blame of slavery solely on the United States.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Slavery and Pat B (among others) are a source of major smbarrassment and shame for this country. First for slavery existing in the Land of the Free and then for 21st century pundits to try to spin it as doing subsequent generations a favor.

Just for the record, the United States was far from the only country in the world to ever have the institution of slavery. I think this concept escapes some individuals (particularly Americans, who fail to look at the histories of other nations and cultures) when they like to lay the blame of slavery solely on the United States.

It was a global industry that is still active in some backwater parts of the world. But again - there are parallels to be drawn between the countries that were most exploited and their current situation today.

[Heracles 417]

Ok so what do you say in 2008? Black people are just generally inferior? Or are they genetically predisposed to violence and having children out of wedlock?

Don't give me that are they inferior #######. Black Americans are what they make themselves to be. They have the same opportunities as everyone else, if not more considering they are a "minority". It is their choice whether they become involved in crime or pursue a legitimate career. It is their choice as a community to allow their neighborhood, in ghettos, to be trashed rather than get together and spend a day cleaning it up. It is their choice to abandon free education and basically piss on the progress made by Brown vs Board of Education.