Pat Buchanan: Black Americans should be grateful we brought them over on slave ships!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

So in other words - the solution you're offering here is to pretend that established social disparaties resulting from the recent past don't exist.

I am sure as hell not going to pay for any disparities in the community resulting from the past.

Who is saying that you should?

[HAL 9000 96]

Then stop making outbursts like you just did. It shows quite alot about your thinking. Marry that to your logic and well... the rest is history... you'll continue 'telling it like it is' while continuing to ignore the actual roots, causes, and symptoms of the problem you're griping about.

How can anyone claim to "tell it like it is" when by their own admission they choose to ignore a rather important part of the picture

There's also a difference between "telling it like it is" and telling it how you'd like it to be.

Okay. We agree on the root cause, symptoms etc.

Now what?

All you guys do is talk about the same stuff over and over again without, ironically, any logical steps on improving the situation. We can talk about the past, cause etc for the next 1,000 years but this will not do anything in getting the community out of the rut, No?? Or don't you guys want to help the community...

Read back. There are pretty clear ideas and suggestions.

[Heracles 417]

Read back. There are pretty clear ideas and suggestions.

I did. America got rid of colored-only fountains a while back.

You personally mentioned compensation. How much do you think would be reasonable? Who should pay for this? What happens if after it is handed out people still remain in a rut?

At the same time can the thousands of people who have had a loved one murdered or been a victim of crime, carried out by an African American, also claim compensation? Or is that "illogical" to mention?

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What do you mean don't give you they are inferior #######? That's exactly what you are saying, is it not? White people would never make such choices?

Their choices are their choices. I cannot blame someone else for my choice or actions, No?

I don't see where anyone has disputed that. I think you have incorrectly summarized your opponent's argument as "Black people have had it rough historically, so they should not be held accountable for anything that they do, ever."

Agreed. The reasoning appears to run something like this.

When you can't argue a point that has been made - pretend that the argument put forward was actually a totally different one.

Otherwise known as argument for argument's sake.

[HAL 9000 96]

He offered his solution a couple of pages back. Black people who didn't want to drink from the colored-only fountains should have used their frequent-ship miles to "return" to Africa.

So why not leave now then. Last time I checked I could get a one way ticket to London for a few hundreds bucks.

Um, because they are Americans?

So in other words - the solution you're offering here is to pretend that established social disparaties resulting from the recent past don't exist.

I am sure as hell not going to pay for any disparities in the community resulting from the past.

Think of it this way... you'd be paying so that you'd have one less cause for stress from all the griping about "how things are."

Ad no, its not you alone. Its everyone as a society. Even the finger pointers you mention would have to contribute.

[Heracles 417]

I don't see where anyone has disputed that. I think you have incorrectly summarized your opponent's argument as "Black people have had it rough historically, so they should not be held accountable for anything that they do, ever."

Agreed. The reasoning appears to run something like this.

When you can't argue a point that has been made - pretend that the argument put forward was actually a totally different one.

Otherwise known as argument for argument's sake.

Not the case at all. Why would I comment on someone twisting my words around.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I don't actually believe that BY knows many African Americans other than the ones he sees on TV.

[HAL 9000 96]

Read back. There are pretty clear ideas and suggestions.

I did. America got rid of colored-only fountains a while back.

You personally mentioned compensation. How much do you think would be reasonable? Who should pay for this? What happens if after it is handed out people still remain in a rut?

At the same time can the thousands of people who have had a loved one murdered or been a victim of crime, carried out by an African American, also claim compensation? Or is that "illogical" to mention?

Yes, I mentioned compensation. 40 acres and a mule? That was promised at the abolition of slavery. Some folks believe in adjusting that for today's money. Do I think this is a good idea? NO, specially since even the receivers would food the bill.

I thought murder was murder. No need to make race an issue for causality of crime, unless you want to get something else out into the open. Never mind the fact that the police currently have their own set of racial profiles to follow based on... you guessed it... race. Perhaps living a little longer in this country will help you better understand that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't see where anyone has disputed that. I think you have incorrectly summarized your opponent's argument as "Black people have had it rough historically, so they should not be held accountable for anything that they do, ever."

Agreed. The reasoning appears to run something like this.

When you can't argue a point that has been made - pretend that the argument put forward was actually a totally different one.

Otherwise known as argument for argument's sake.

Not the case at all. Why would I comment on someone twisting my words around.

I dunno - you seem to have done a pretty good job of doing it to everyone else. From Page 1.

[Heracles 417]

Um, because they are Americans?

Regardless, people from various countries migrate to other nations all of time.

Think of it this way... you'd be paying so that you'd have one less cause for stress from all the griping about "how things are."

Ad no, its not you alone. Its everyone as a society. Even the finger pointers you mention would have to contribute.

So everyone should pay for a crime they are not guilt of. Yet I am illogical.

[HAL 9000 96]

What do you mean don't give you they are inferior #######? That's exactly what you are saying, is it not? White people would never make such choices?

Their choices are their choices. I cannot blame someone else for my choice or actions, No?

I don't see where anyone has disputed that. I think you have incorrectly summarized your opponent's argument as "Black people have had it rough historically, so they should not be held accountable for anything that they do, ever."

Agreed. The reasoning appears to run something like this.

When you can't argue a point that has been made - pretend that the argument put forward was actually a totally different one.

Otherwise known as argument for argument's sake.

Ahh... the Chewbacca Defense:

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

To my knowledge, no one is seriously considering reparations for slavery in spite of what BY seems to believe

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To my knowledge, no one is seriously considering reparations for slavery in spite of what BY seems to believe

Indeed. Arguing against people on a point that noone is actually advocating.

[Heracles 417]

Yes, I mentioned compensation. 40 acres and a mule? That was promised at the abolition of slavery. Some folks believe in adjusting that for today's money. Do I think this is a good idea? NO, specially since even the receivers would food the bill.

I thought murder was murder. No need to make race an issue for causality of crime, unless you want to get something else out into the open. Never mind the fact that the police currently have their own set of racial profiles to follow based on... you guessed it... race. Perhaps living a little longer in this country will help you better understand that.

You don't see a pattern of blame here? Maybe the police are setting them up. I will think of that next time I am in downtown DC and see a drug deal. Or see a drive-by on the news.

[HAL 9000 96]

Um, because they are Americans?

Regardless, people from various countries migrate to other nations all of time.

Think of it this way... you'd be paying so that you'd have one less cause for stress from all the griping about "how things are."

Ad no, its not you alone. Its everyone as a society. Even the finger pointers you mention would have to contribute.

So everyone should pay for a crime they are not guilt of. Yet I am illogical.

Regardless of what? Its Americans that we're discussing here, or are they somehow not?

Yes, very illogical.