Top Rabbi: Jewish law forbids renting homes to Arabs

[Captain Ewok 1,871]

I have seen a few posts in here that certainly do not go along with what VJ is all about. Please consider the diverse population of VJ members and keep that in mind when posting. Thank you .

[simple_male 1]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Well said Gary

You still have not apologized for your racist, inflammatory comment "it's in their blood" about the Arabs/Palestinians. Maybe you like to stand by what you said.

[sandinista! 1,816]

"Might makes right" isn't a very ethical viewpoint by modern standards, is it? I don't really know, but it at best it's extremely narcissistic.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. It's just the reality of things.

so if fifty thugs armed with automatic weapons burst into your house at this moment and demanded you turn over all your property to them, their might in being greater than you in numbers and weaponry makes any protest by you completely worthless? are you an anarchist?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Go Israel!!!!!

great point!

[mawilson 2,133]

"Might makes right" isn't a very ethical viewpoint by modern standards, is it? I don't really know, but it at best it's extremely narcissistic.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. It's just the reality of things.

so if fifty thugs armed with automatic weapons burst into your house at this moment and demanded you turn over all your property to them, their might in being greater than you in numbers and weaponry makes any protest by you completely worthless? are you an anarchist?

Naturally - LOL. If fifty thugs armed with automatic weapons burst into your house,

you'd have to be a complete idiot to try and "resist".

[KEK 0]

"Might is right" is so pathetic. It undermines the value of human beings and the achievements of civilization. Not to mention the achievements of ** sapiens in the areas of communication and diplomacy as a means to peace, rather than assuming whoever is the most violent and powerful should be the winners of a conflict.

I feel sorry for the moral, intellectual, and emotional deprivation of this kind of mentality. It is really sad, and also frightening. Sometimes I wonder what factors contribute in the turning of people into terrorists. I think being deprived in these ways is a big factor. And everyone can be susceptible. That is why there is terrorism and violence from both sides in this specific conflict, this "us vs. them" problem. Narrow-minded and brainwashed ideas lead to violence on both sides, just in different ways. Just bec. one sides uses tanks and the other homemade bombs doesn't mean one is less terrifying and terrorizing.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Might makes right" isn't a very ethical viewpoint by modern standards, is it? I don't really know, but it at best it's extremely narcissistic.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. It's just the reality of things.

Yes, I think that's the problem.

I think that kind of reasoning is applied more to the 3rd world than the 1st. I mean look at Northern Ireland - when the protestant and catholic factions started squaring off against each other the UK government didn't exactly take the attitude of "its our land now. ###### 'em".

We have a solution there - precisely because we didn't take that view, and we recognised that both sides had legitimate claims. That has not happened in Israel.

[simple_male 1]

"Might is right" is so pathetic. It undermines the value of human beings and the achievements of civilization. Not to mention the achievements of ** sapiens in the areas of communication and diplomacy as a means to peace, rather than assuming whoever is the most violent and powerful should be the winners of a conflict.

I feel sorry for the moral, intellectual, and emotional deprivation of this kind of mentality. It is really sad, and also frightening. Sometimes I wonder what factors contribute in the turning of people into terrorists. I think being deprived in these ways is a big factor. And everyone can be susceptible. That is why there is terrorism and violence from both sides in this specific conflict, this "us vs. them" problem. Narrow-minded and brainwashed ideas lead to violence on both sides, just in different ways. Just bec. one sides uses tanks and the other homemade bombs doesn't mean one is less terrifying and terrorizing.

Very well said! Unfortunately, Israel has adopted "might is right" policy and is continuing it. By doing so, they will never have peace with its neighbors. It is a very dangerous policy, as the military might that Israel has now can swing to Arab's direction in future. Some arrogants will say it will never happen, but no human being knows what will happen in future, only God knows. So it is wise to find a peaceful solution with its neigbors as it is happening in Ireland mentioned by number 6.

[sandinista! 1,816]

"Might makes right" isn't a very ethical viewpoint by modern standards, is it? I don't really know, but it at best it's extremely narcissistic.

Ethics has nothing to do with it. It's just the reality of things.

Yes, I think that's the problem.

I think that kind of reasoning is applied more to the 3rd world than the 1st. I mean look at Northern Ireland - when the protestant and catholic factions started squaring off against each other the UK government didn't exactly take the attitude of "its our land now. ###### 'em".

We have a solution there - precisely because we didn't take that view, and we recognised that both sides had legitimate claims. That has not happened in Israel.

indeed! and origins to that conflict went back 400 years. but then people think that territory israel "won" 40 years ago in a war is eternally theirs, forever and ever (despite it long being a violation of international law to acquire land by military conquest). there's at least more parallels to these two conflicts than there is to hurricane katrina anyways

[KEK 0]

Top Yesha rabbi says Jewish law forbids renting houses to Arabs

By Nadav Shragai, Haaretz Correspondent

The chairman of the Yesha rabbinical council and chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba, Rabbi Dov Lior, on Wednesday issued a halakhic ruling stating that it is forbidden by Jewish law to employ Arabs or rent homes to them.

In an interview published by "Eretz Israel Shelanu" (Our Land of Israel), to be distributed this Saturday in various synagogues, Lior said that "since this is a matter of endangering souls, it is clear that it is completely forbidden to employ them and rent houses to them in Israel. Their employment is forbidden not only at yeshivas, but at factories, hotels and everywhere."

In the interview, Rabbi Lior backed the decision made by the administration of the Mercaz Harav yeshiva in Jerusalem to prevent Prime Minister Ehud Olmert from visiting the school after an Israeli Arab terrorist killed eight students there two weeks ago. "How can you welcome a man who acts against our holy Torah and continues to lead the people of Israel toward great danger?" Lior said.

"They were right in refusing to welcome such a personality in the yeshiva's halls," he added.

Rabbi Lior criticized the rabbis who didn't obey Rabbi Abraham Shapira, who instructed Jewish soldiers to refuse orders during the 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. "If the public had ignored the so-called "rabbis" who came out against these instructions, we may very well have spared the great pain [of the disengagement] from the people of Israel," he said.

Recently, several rabbis led by Rabbi Lior have issued a precedent setting halakhic ruling that Israel must shoot civilian populations in areas from whence attacks on Jewish communities originate.

Attorney Einat Horvitz from the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism said in response to the interview that "we view with great concern the wave of calls against Arabs since the terrible terror attack. This is an ever growing phenomenon of racist incitement that distorts Judaism and is also illegal. We call upon the attorney general to shake off his apathy and take action to enforce the laws that prohibit these calls."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966208.html

This is this hardcore settler faction, a group of racist extremists who believe that all Palestinians should be driven out of the West Bank and Gaza, and be replaced with Jews. They are a minority among the total population of Israelis. But they have some very powerful friends, including some in very high places in the Israeli government.

Kiryat Arba, where this particular group is based, is an illegal settlement in the West Bank which has been home to various terrorists such as Baruch Goldstein. It's located on the edge of Hebron, a city of some 150,000 Palestinians.

Their spiritual leader is the fanatic Jewish-American Rabbi Meir Kahane, and many of the Hebron settlers are followers of the outlawed terrorist organization Kach.

A lot of Americans aren't really familiar with the whole settler issue, but it's a major factor in the hostilities of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. So a little background:

This problem began in 1968 (a year after the 1967 war in which Israel occupied Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza) when a group of about 60 disciples of the Rabbi Kook (I kid you not) led by Rabbi Moshe Levinger arrived in Hebron as "tourists." They booked rooms at a downtown hotel, and then simply refused to leave.

After some initial scuffles, the Israeli government moved the group to a military outpost on the edge of Hebron, built on confiscated Palestinian property, which eventually became known as the settlement of Kiryat Arba.

In 1979, under cover of night, a group of women and children from Kiryat Arba (led by Levinger's wife) sneaked into a hospital in downtown Hebron and also refused to leave. Over the next 30-some years, the settlers began to spread throughout much of Hebron's historic commercial business district.

With the open protection/support/enabling of the Israeli government, these illegal settlers now number about 800, and they have taken over a large part of the city. About 4000 Israeli troops are stationed in and around Hebron to protect these Jewish squatters, despite the fact that their presence is totally illegal.

As Kiryat Arba and its satellite settlements continue to expand, more and more Palestinian property in the area has been appropriated for "security reasons" -- which in reality means it's used for building more homes for settlers, transferring more agricultural land over into the control of settlers, and to build Jewish-only roads which service the settler communities and connect them to Israel "proper."

Settlers are allowed by the Israeli government and military to carry semi-automatic weapons, some of them provided by their own government, some provided by private supporters. Palestinians, of course, are not even legally permitted to own guns.

These settlers (and their children) regularly rampage through the Palestinian neighborhoods, assaulting people, shooting at homes, breaking into shops, vandalizing property, destroying crops and orchards, throwing garbage at residents, harrassing schoolchildren, and generally terrorizing the population. Few are ever arrested by Israeli police (who are threatened with lawsuits if they dare to try to enforce the law on these hooligans.) A few of these fanatics have been convicted of murdering Palestinian civilians, but were later pardoned by the Israeli government.

Hebron has become a major flashpoint in the conflict, and the increasing militancy of the settlers has been mirrored with an increasing militancy on the Palestinian side. Assaults and murders are committed frequently by both sides now. The ever-growing violence and hostilities have resulted in giving Hamas its strongest foothold in the West Bank (which has historically been mostly supportive of the secular Fatah party -- at least outside of Hebron.)

To "control" the tense situation, the Israeli army regularly places the Palestinian population under tight curfew, confining tens of thousands of people to their homes for days on end, while allowing the settlers to roam freely and continue their attacks.

Shamefully enough, many of these settler families are American -- a lot of them came straight out of Brooklyn, New York, and they get some of their funding from private supporters in America.

Just as shamefully, they have a lot of political influence on the Israeli government and its policies.

Back to the OT, I am thinking that this faction in the West Bank is looking to finish the job they started back then, by using the "defend Israel" cop-out argument to continue to push Palestinians away from their land and heritage there. I feel they conveniently use this excuse whenever they need an all-purpose reason to justify their prejudiced or militaristic ways. Israel, who used to be the "victim" itself, has now become the victimizer. It is a happy thing to know that most Israelis do not really think in this way, and they do care about the struggling refugees around them. It is only a few of those who are corrupted by power and greed.

I wonder how much their new policy will influence the majority of the Israeli settlers in the West Bank and their dealings with Palestinians. Hopefully not much - hopefully it's an extremist viewpoint that will only exist on the fringes of that society.

[MandR 0]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Well said Gary

You still have not apologized for your racist, inflammatory comment "it's in their blood" about the Arabs/Palestinians. Maybe you like to stand by what you said.

Firstly I never said anything about the Arabs...........

Secondly I will state it again "IT'S IN THEIR BLOOD" to kill Israelies and Jews........

Many are brainwashed from when they are little pee-ons that they should HATE a Jew, let alone an Israeli

How many times are palestinian terrorists involved in some way shape or form for killing a jew.

Munich olympics; 1976 Air France flight 139 Athens to Paris; 1985 take over of the cruise ship Achelle Lauroa and on and on and on we go... who's to blame but a palestinian somewhere along the line.

Then would you like me to list the many, many terrorist attacks in Israel alone since 2001 that has palestinian blood written all over it........

I would have to send you an e-mail as the list is way too long to post on here

Lastly, I will not appologize for that comment........ sorry

Edited March 23, 2008 by MandR

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Anyone would think from reading the above that there's a clear-cut issue there - given that the solution proposed in a preceding post was "thumbs up to genocide".

Perhaps these people should work in international relations. Because there's an easy solution for all of these things. Right?

If only. People who can't see the nuances and complexities in politics are part of the problem. IMO.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Number 6

[KEK 0]

Firstly I never said anything about the Arabs...........

Secondly I will state it again "IT'S IN THEIR BLOOD" to kill Israelies and Jews........

Many are brainwashed from when they are little pee-ons that they should HATE a Jew, let alone an Israeli

How many times are palestinian terrorists involved in some way shape or form for killing a jew.

Munich olympics; 1976 Air France flight 139 Athens to Paris; 1985 take over of the cruise ship Achelle Lauroa and on and on and on we go... who's to blame but a palestinian somewhere along the line.

Then would you like me to list the many, many terrorist attacks in Israel alone since 2001 that has palestinian blood written all over it........

I would have to send you an e-mail as the list is way too long to post on here

Lastly, I will not appologize for that comment........ sorry

Just because you don't feel the need to apologize doesn't mean it's not wrong to make racist comments. At least you ended up by saying "sorry" - an apology for not apologizing... interesting, lol

And yes it's racist. I'm not going to argue this point. Please just look up the definition of racism if you are confused.

About brainwashing - it's done on all sides, and in all cultures. For example, Arabs are so often portrayed negatively in popular American media - they are portrayed as terrorists or generally suspicious. Sadly this seems to be the case often in American news as well.

For all of your examples of Arab terrorists attacking Jews, there must be an equal number of Israeli acts of retaliating back at Arabs, continuing with their own violence (and often harming/killing civilians in the way). These things happen from BOTH sides. It's surprising how one-sided and how "clear-cut" (as described in an above post) your viewpoint is. Why can't we have more open minds people???

It's obvious to me that SOME Arabs do very bad things, and SOME Jews/non-Arab Israelis also do very bad things. So apparently it's in their "blood" as well, going back to your original comment. As if it has any merit. I believe that hatred is taught, either by evil people or by suffering and desperation (probably a combination of both). Hatred is not passed on by "blood"

Finally, the word you were looking for was "peon", not "pee-on". What a substitute Were you intentionally trying to be derogatory to Arab youth, or do you really need to invest in a good dictionary?