Top Rabbi: Jewish law forbids renting homes to Arabs

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war."

so give your home back to mexico. that's where the land came from it's on.

I second that, lets give America back to the english or better yet, the native americans.

[Dan J 277]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

That attitude would have worked 50 years ago, but it wont solve a damn thing today.

The world has changed, apperently you didn't get the memo.

No it hasn't. It's the same as it ever was. The strong win and the weak lose. Pretending that treaties and negotiations work is just fooling yourself.

Show me a recent conflict within the last 25 years that has succeeded based on your prinicpals.

Vietnam went nowhere. Iraq and Afganistan are far from being successful. The Israel-Palastine conflict has been going on for decades. All these conflicts tried to use the military to bring a solution to the conflict. It hasn't worked.

The military approch helped bring an end to WW2. But thats really the last time its use has been successful. Since then, its only made problems worse.

This is not about being strong or weak, this is about being smart or stupid.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Wait, the Palestinians are threatening us ??

now we are going back to the all Muslims are the same... all Arabs are bad...

All Muslims are Arabs.... Certainly no Arabs are Israelis, and certainly no Arabs are Jews....

"us" versus "them"

okay, i have to sign off now...

[GaryC 7]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

That attitude would have worked 50 years ago, but it wont solve a damn thing today.

The world has changed, apperently you didn't get the memo.

No it hasn't. It's the same as it ever was. The strong win and the weak lose. Pretending that treaties and negotiations work is just fooling yourself.

Show me a recent conflict within the last 25 years that has succeeded based on your prinicpals.

Vietnam went nowhere. Iraq and Afganistan are far from being successful. The Israel-Palastine conflict has been going on for decades. All these conflicts tried to use the military to bring a solution to the conflict. It hasn't worked.

The military approch helped bring an end to WW2. But thats really the last time its use has been successful. Since then, its only made problems worse.

This is not about being strong or weak, this is about being smart or stupid.

Show me where a treaty or negotiations did anything but put off the conflict to a later time. The reason it hasn't worked in the last 25 years is because of attempts to stop wars with treaties and negotiations. The smart just do what it takes to win once and for all. The stupid fool themselves into thinking they can talk their way out of fighting.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Teehee.

Zio-logic... it's the logic of the criminally insane.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

That attitude would have worked 50 years ago, but it wont solve a damn thing today.

The world has changed, apperently you didn't get the memo.

No it hasn't. It's the same as it ever was. The strong win and the weak lose. Pretending that treaties and negotiations work is just fooling yourself.

Show me a recent conflict within the last 25 years that has succeeded based on your prinicpals.

Vietnam went nowhere. Iraq and Afganistan are far from being successful. The Israel-Palastine conflict has been going on for decades. All these conflicts tried to use the military to bring a solution to the conflict. It hasn't worked.

The military approch helped bring an end to WW2. But thats really the last time its use has been successful. Since then, its only made problems worse.

This is not about being strong or weak, this is about being smart or stupid.

Nagasaki and iwo jima was a total success! Wouldnt you say?

[Dan J 277]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

But in the end, Isreal is a liablity. If we continue to support Isreal without pushing for an amicable resolution to the conflict, we are only makeing it more difficult to deal with other geopoltical forces in the region.

We can't win the war on terror, if we cant solve one of the major points of retoric that drives islamic extremeism.

[GaryC 7]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

But in the end, Isreal is a liablity. If we continue to support Isreal without pushing for an amicable resolution to the conflict, we are only makeing it more difficult to deal with other geopoltical forces in the region.

We can't win the war on terror, if we cant solve one of the major points of retoric that drives islamic extremeism.

Even if we abandon Israel and let other countries destroy them the extremist will still attack us. They don't care about the Palestinians and Israel, they only want to push their hateful version of Islam on as many people as they can. (notice I am not saying all Muslims, only the ones that use their religion as an excuse for violence) They just use the Palestinians as a convenient excuse. If that were taken away tomorrow they would just find a new reason. If you think the terrorists are only trying to get justice for Palestine your fooling yourself.

Teehee.

Zio-logic... it's the logic of the criminally insane.

Out comes the personal attacks. Now I am criminally insane?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Teehee.

Zio-logic... it's the logic of the criminally insane.

Out comes the personal attacks. Now I am criminally insane?

Zio-logic --

from

"God gave it to me" or "God told me to do this"

to

"Might makes right -- who cares about what the law says"

-- is the logic of the criminally insane.

This type of reasoning has never stood up in any court of law. (Well, unless it's a kangaroo court.)

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Thats good Gary, it means you won the debate! Great job.

[Dan J 277]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

But in the end, Isreal is a liablity. If we continue to support Isreal without pushing for an amicable resolution to the conflict, we are only makeing it more difficult to deal with other geopoltical forces in the region.

We can't win the war on terror, if we cant solve one of the major points of retoric that drives islamic extremeism.

Even if we abandon Israel and let other countries destroy them the extremist will still attack us. They don't care about the Palestinians and Israel, they only want to push their hateful version of Islam on as many people as they can. (notice I am not saying all Muslims, only the ones that use their religion as an excuse for violence) They just use the Palestinians as a convenient excuse. If that were taken away tomorrow they would just find a new reason. If you think the terrorists are only trying to get justice for Palestine your fooling yourself.

Terrorism groups (no matter what aim) depend on popular support to continue operating. The need support for recruitment, supplies, to help stay hidden, etc. At the moment, they get alot of popular support, because of our biased support of isreal, actions in Iraq, and other actions we have taken in the past. This is not to say that most of the people who are providing support for extremeist groups truly support thier mission, but they are the only actors acting against the US, and an avenue for the anger over US actions.

Fixing the Israel problem will not end extremeism, it will however weaken the popular support for those those groups. Which in turn will make it easier to deal with, and give a greater voice to moderate groups to take polticital power in Saudi Arabia and Iran.

We have alot to gain by ending our biased support of Israel and moving them into the position where they will negotiate for peace.

[Nagishkaw 510]

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war."

so give your home back to mexico. that's where the land came from it's on.

I second that, lets give America back to the english or better yet, the native americans.

That's an

[GaryC 7]

Teehee.

Zio-logic... it's the logic of the criminally insane.

Out comes the personal attacks. Now I am criminally insane?

Zio-logic --

from

"God gave it to me" or "God told me to do this"

to

"Might makes right -- who cares about what the law says"

-- is the logic of the criminally insane.

This type of reasoning has never stood up in any court of law. (Well, unless it's a kangaroo court.)

So I guess that means you stand behind your inference that I am criminally insane?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Teehee.

Zio-logic... it's the logic of the criminally insane.

Out comes the personal attacks. Now I am criminally insane?

Zio-logic --

from

"God gave it to me" or "God told me to do this"

to

"Might makes right -- who cares about what the law says"

-- is the logic of the criminally insane.

This type of reasoning has never stood up in any court of law. (Well, unless it's a kangaroo court.)

So I guess that means you stand behind your inference that I am criminally insane?

I stand by my statement that it is the logic of the criminally insane.

[GaryC 7]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

But in the end, Isreal is a liablity. If we continue to support Isreal without pushing for an amicable resolution to the conflict, we are only makeing it more difficult to deal with other geopoltical forces in the region.

We can't win the war on terror, if we cant solve one of the major points of retoric that drives islamic extremeism.

Even if we abandon Israel and let other countries destroy them the extremist will still attack us. They don't care about the Palestinians and Israel, they only want to push their hateful version of Islam on as many people as they can. (notice I am not saying all Muslims, only the ones that use their religion as an excuse for violence) They just use the Palestinians as a convenient excuse. If that were taken away tomorrow they would just find a new reason. If you think the terrorists are only trying to get justice for Palestine your fooling yourself.

Terrorism groups (no matter what aim) depend on popular support to continue operating. The need support for recruitment, supplies, to help stay hidden, etc. At the moment, they get alot of popular support, because of our biased support of isreal, actions in Iraq, and other actions we have taken in the past. This is not to say that most of the people who are providing support for extremeist groups truly support thier mission, but they are the only actors acting against the US, and an avenue for the anger over US actions.

Fixing the Israel problem will not end extremeism, it will however weaken the popular support for those those groups. Which in turn will make it easier to deal with, and give a greater voice to moderate groups to take polticital power in Saudi Arabia and Iran.

We have alot to gain by ending our biased support of Israel and moving them into the position where they will negotiate for peace.

I 100% disagree. They will just find a new cause for their violence. Their aim (the radicals) is conquest and control. The only way to fight that is to help our friends (Israel) and destroy our enemies. Talking solves nothing.