Top Rabbi: Jewish law forbids renting homes to Arabs

[GaryC 7]

No, I don't see the difference. Racial hatred is racial hatred. One sides hate breeds the other sides hate. It's a never ending circle.

As far as the OP goes, the Israelites could be perceived as protecting themselves from a group (the terrorists) that may try to infiltrate and cause harm. Since they can't tell the good guys from the bad they exclude everyone.

You are confusing two separate issues.

In fact, Saudi Arabia has the absolute right to exclude anyone from visiting their country, or any product from entering their country. So does Israel. And I think you've somehow overlooked the fact that Israel certainly does refuse to allow *many* people of Arab origin from entering Israel. We may not agree with their policies about which foreign visitors or which foreign products are allowed in, but that is a state's own right to determine.

But neither Israel nor Saudi Arabia have the right to illegally occupy someone else's land, to expel those people from their property, and to transfer their own civilian population into that same land.

Also, under Israel's own laws, Israelis do not have the *right* to incite violence against Israel's own minority ethnic groups -- and Israeli Arabs make up 20% of Israel's population.

Are you really advocating the idea that all Arabs are somehow mutually responsible for and interchangeably punishable for the non-favorable immigration or trade policies of one (or even several) Arab governments ? Are you really advocating the idea that it's acceptable to collectively punish or violate the rights of any or all Arabs -- including their rights to their own property -- because of the actions of small groups of terrorists ?

Somehow, I don't think you'd be advocating or making excuses for similar types of punitive actions against against Jews anywhere in the world -- the appropriation of their property, or expelling them from their homes -- simply because of the illegal actions of certain Israelis, or of the Israeli state, including terrorism.

Or would you ?

It isn't two separate issues any longer. This has become an "us against them" thing and it has been for many years. Your trying to let it exist in the vacume of the issue of the Palestinian / Israel conflict. It's been much wider than that for a long time now. How can you condemn the actions if Israel without also condemning all acts of injustice in the of the Arab world? Your selective outrage no longer persuades.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

And I think you've somehow overlooked the fact that Israel certainly does refuse to allow *many* people of Arab origin from entering Israel.

Good point, WOM. i have been given ####### at the airport in Tel Aviv and i am an American with a "suspicious last name".

Doesn't mean anything. I had the same problem at the airport in Tel Aviv and I have an English last name.

Ben Gurion has extremely tight security measures -- it's not unusual for foreign nationals to be grilled for hours before a decision is made whether or not to allow them to enter Israel, and similar interrogations can occur upon departure. (This information is readily available to travelers before booking their flights.)

I've been pulled aside and questioned -- the soldiers insisted I had an "Arabic name" and kept demanding my "other" (translation: "Arabic") passport.

Upon determining that I was actually an non-Arab American, and after giving names of Israeli friends, the stern faces changed to smiles, apologies were offered, and I proceeded on through.

Interestingly enough, the next soldier at the next checkpoint looked at my passport and immediately remarked that I have a "Hebrew" name.

LOL it's actually neither.

Edited March 21, 2008 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It isn't two separate issues any longer. This has become an "us against them" thing and it has been for many years. Your trying to let it exist in the vacume of the issue of the Palestinian / Israel conflict. It's been much wider than that for a long time now. How can you condemn the actions if Israel without also condemning all acts of injustice in the of the Arab world? Your selective outrage no longer persuades.

I condemn all injustice.

Now can you please define your term "us against them" -- who exactly is "us" and who exactly is "them" ?

[panamania79 2]

It isn't two separate issues any longer. This has become an "us against them" thing and it has been for many years. Your trying to let it exist in the vacume of the issue of the Palestinian / Israel conflict. It's been much wider than that for a long time now. How can you condemn the actions if Israel without also condemning all acts of injustice in the of the Arab world? Your selective outrage no longer persuades.

I condemn all injustice.

Now can you please define your term "us against them" -- who exactly is "us" and who exactly is "them" ?

Exactly !

[GaryC 7]

It isn't two separate issues any longer. This has become an "us against them" thing and it has been for many years. Your trying to let it exist in the vacume of the issue of the Palestinian / Israel conflict. It's been much wider than that for a long time now. How can you condemn the actions if Israel without also condemning all acts of injustice in the of the Arab world? Your selective outrage no longer persuades.

I condemn all injustice.

Now can you please define your term "us against them" -- who exactly is "us" and who exactly is "them" ?

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

Edited March 21, 2008 by GaryC

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

[GaryC 7]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Well said, Gary.

[Dan J 277]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war."

so give your home back to mexico. that's where the land came from it's on.

[GaryC 7]

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

[Dan J 277]

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

That attitude would have worked 50 years ago, but it wont solve a damn thing today.

The world has changed, apperently you didn't get the memo.

[GaryC 7]

The generic "us" and the generic "them". You choose who you want to put in each category.

If you condemn all injustice why don't I see you posting topics about bombers in market places or the repression of other Arab countries? All we see you post is how bad the evil Zionists are.

You used the term, but now you don't want to define it ? Interesting.

May I point out that *you* yourself have never condemned any Israeli terrorist actions, or any Israeli violations of international law or the Geneva Convention. (Nor, by the way, have I asked you to.)

And despite your *personal* perception about my posts (although you try to characterize it as "all we see".... as if your *own* opinion is in any way representative of the group) -- it seems that you are not actually familiar with most of them. In fact, contrary to your perception, the majority of my posts have nothing to do with Israel or Zionists.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

Your also in favor of double standards.

Isreal and Iraq had have a few things in common, well sort of.

Isreal supports terrorism, Iraq supposedly did, but had no connections to AQ.

Iraq and Isreal both defied UN security council regulations.

Iraq supposedly had WMD's and Isreal does.

So in other words, your all for double standards. Its that attitude that makes it difficult to make any progress in comming up with a solution.

There are other solutions. But both Israel and the Palestians need to be treated equally. No more calling for a two state solution, and then turning around to sell weapons to Israel. (I suppose we could sell weapons to both sides and the problem would eventually take care of itself, assuming there is anyone left alive in the end.)

The big difference is Israel isn't threatening us with their weapons. They are only defending themselves and some are calling that terrorism. Obviously I don't agree with that. If there comes a day when Israel threatens us then I will advocate blowing them up. For now they are our friends and I will want to defend our friends.

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

That attitude would have worked 50 years ago, but it wont solve a damn thing today.

The world has changed, apperently you didn't get the memo.

No it hasn't. It's the same as it ever was. The strong win and the weak lose. Pretending that treaties and negotiations work is just fooling yourself.

[Jenn! 918]

I don't make any illusions of where my sympathy lies. I am 100% in favor of the Zionists. Israel was created by the UN/LON. It was successfully defended in several wars, some Israel started some they didn't. They took land in those wars and IMO it is theirs until someone else takes it away. You all know I am a hawk and I feel that might makes right.

The Palestinian people have 3 choices as far as I see it. Submit to the stronger power and assimilate, move or take their land back through force of arms. As long as they continue the path of terrorism then Israel will continue to oppress them. If they stop terrorism then I feel that Israel will let them assimilate. If they don't want to live in a country ruled by the Zions then the last two options are their choices. But the idea that playing the victim card will not work. Wars have winners and losers. The Palestinians lost.

The Israel created by the UN is inside what as known as the 1948 borders.

The UN partition demanded that as a condition of the partition and recognizing Israel as a state, that it do nothing to violate the rights of the indigenous Arab population. Israel's conduct in 1948 -- to expel them and appropriate their property -- immediately violated that condition.

Under international law and the Geneva Convention (to which Israel is a signatory,) the seizure of territory by military force is completely illegal. This is what the countries of the world agreed after the horrors of World War II and Nazi Germany's attempt to do just that -- the world agreed "Never again."

So actually, there is no such thing as a right to "win land by war." And neither the UN nor any other government in the world (include the United States) recognizes the West Bank (or the Gaza strip) as part of Israel.

I don't know what you're talking about with "assimilate." What are West Bank and Gaza Palestinians supposed to "assimilate" into ? Israel ?

You need a history lesson.

http://www.washington-report.org/jews_for_justice/

I don't need a history lesson, I just don't care about treaties. They are made by the weak and the losers of wars.

As I said, I feel might makes right and I don't give a damn about treaties. Israel took it and it's theirs. If one of the wars went different and Egypt won would you be in favor of giving back the land to the Jews? I doubt it. I have made it very clear I have no use for the UN or negotiations. The only time peace comes is after a war and a clear winner emerges. You can post links to treaties and agreements all day long and it will not change my mind.

Didn't you just say that the UN created Israel?

Edited March 21, 2008 by Jenn!