Including passport pages?

[caityrose 0]

Hello folks,

So... I know that it is highly suggested that you include all pages of your passport as evidence that you have met your fiance within the last two years. However, this winter when I was visiting my fiance, he gracefully spilled water all over my passport, so all stamps have practically disappeared. I was scolded at customs in Chicago, and now I'm concerned that I might get an RFE for not including passport pages. I can include them, but you won't be able to see any stamps. I'm also afraid that they won't believe my story. Are there people out there who have not included passport pages and been just fine? I want to send the petition tomorrow, but now I'm just making myself really nervous...

Thank you very much for your help,

Caity

[mox 298]

Include what you have. If the stamps are even the slightest bit legible, see if you can take it to kinkos. They might have a high resolution copier or scanner that will pick it up. If you know anyone with Photoshop skills, maybe they can enhance the image a bit.

[웃 910]

I didn't send in pictures of my passports with the stamps in them. However, if you have proof that you traveled to Mexico (airline ticket and hotel reservation receipts), then include that type of information and you will be fine. I never received an RFE. And pictures are the biggest proof of all, pictures are indisputable evidence.

[mox 298]

I didn't send in pictures of my passports with the stamps in them. However, if you have proof that you traveled to Mexico (airline ticket and hotel reservation receipts), then include that type of information and you will be fine. I never received an RFE. And pictures are the biggest proof of all, pictures are indisputable evidence.

No. Pictures are SECONDARY evidence. They are actually the smallest proof.

[Mike-Mely 0]

I didn't send in pictures of my passports with the stamps in them. However, if you have proof that you traveled to Mexico (airline ticket and hotel reservation receipts), then include that type of information and you will be fine. I never received an RFE. And pictures are the biggest proof of all, pictures are indisputable evidence.

No. Pictures are SECONDARY evidence. They are actually the smallest proof.

Where did you get this information Mox, in regards to primary and secondary evidence?

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

Here at VJ we have Guides!

They are very useful and talk about what to send in, what is primary and what is secondary.

Pictures being secondary.

[caityrose 0]

I think pictures are secondary evidence- it seems silly to me too, but photos don't actually prove that you met within the last two years. They just prove that you have met. I dont' understand how a hotel receipt is better evidence than pictures, but I'll just go with it.

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

I think pictures are secondary evidence- it seems silly to me too, but photos don't actually prove that you met within the last two years. They just prove that you have met. I dont' understand how a hotel receipt is better evidence than pictures, but I'll just go with it.

Exactly, anyone can fake photos. It doesn't really prove anything and who knows really when they were taken.

They want to see the hard evidence, like stamps in your passport, boarding passes, etc. etc.

[Mike-Mely 0]

Here at VJ we have Guides!

They are very useful and talk about what to send in, what is primary and what is secondary.

Pictures being secondary.

Yeah I have read the guides thanks, I dont see wear it says anything there about primary and secondary evidence?

[mox 298]

I think pictures are secondary evidence- it seems silly to me too, but photos don't actually prove that you met within the last two years. They just prove that you have met. I dont' understand how a hotel receipt is better evidence than pictures, but I'll just go with it.

It's harder to forge a receipt than a photo. You could probably come up with a pretty decent looking receipt in Office or something, but if anyone ever actually called the place to check if you'd really been there, the gig would be up. Photos, however...anyone can photoshop a photo to have anything or anyone in it, and it's very hard to prove or disprove.

And yeah, primary/secondary evidence is in the guides. Don't file without it.

[Mike-Mely 0]

I think pictures are secondary evidence- it seems silly to me too, but photos don't actually prove that you met within the last two years. They just prove that you have met. I dont' understand how a hotel receipt is better evidence than pictures, but I'll just go with it.

It's harder to forge a receipt than a photo. You could probably come up with a pretty decent looking receipt in Office or something, but if anyone ever actually called the place to check if you'd really been there, the gig would be up. Photos, however...anyone can photoshop a photo to have anything or anyone in it, and it's very hard to prove or disprove.

And yeah, primary/secondary evidence is in the guides. Don't file without it.

So as far as I can tell this primary/secondary thing is just your and possibly others opinions of the validity of the requested evidence and not any offical policy of the USCIS/DOS/USE?

[mox 298]

So as far as I can tell this primary/secondary thing is just your and possibly others opinions of the validity of the requested evidence and not any offical policy of the USCIS/DOS/USE?

Mike...I just went through the guides and they don't specifically spell out primary and secondary evidence. It is, however, common knowledge, and perhaps someone like rebeccajo can even cite from Title 8 of the CFR if so inclined. You can do a VJ search (top of the page) yourself though and verify it for yourself. If that's not good enough for you...whatevs. But no, I'm not just pulling this out of my azs. It's real, and it's official.

Here's an excerpt from the Adjudicator's Field Manual that spells it out a little clearer:

Primary and Secondary Evidence . Closely related to the best evidence rule is the concept of primary and secondary evidence. Primary evidence is evidence which on its face proves a fact. For example, the divorce certificate is primary evidence of a divorce. Secondary evidence is evidence which makes it more likely that the fact sought to be proven by the primary evidence is true, but cannot do so on its own face, without any external reference.

Edited March 20, 2008 by mox

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

Wow, my apologies, I'm shocked that it isn't actually spelled out in the guides either...I thought for sure it was.

I just always knew that, pictures are secondary. I'm hoping someone like Pushbrk or Rebeccajo can come along and clarify where this is spelled out

Best of luck!

[Mike-Mely 0]

So as far as I can tell this primary/secondary thing is just your and possibly others opinions of the validity of the requested evidence and not any offical policy of the USCIS/DOS/USE?

Mike...I just went through the guides and they don't specifically spell out primary and secondary evidence. It is, however, common knowledge, and perhaps someone like rebeccajo can even cite from Title 8 of the CFR if so inclined. You can do a VJ search (top of the page) yourself though and verify it for yourself. If that's not good enough for you...whatevs. But no, I'm not just pulling this out of my azs. It's real, and it's official.

Here's an excerpt from the Adjudicator's Field Manual that spells it out a little clearer:

Primary and Secondary Evidence . Closely related to the best evidence rule is the concept of primary and secondary evidence. Primary evidence is evidence which on its face proves a fact. For example, the divorce certificate is primary evidence of a divorce. Secondary evidence is evidence which makes it more likely that the fact sought to be proven by the primary evidence is true, but cannot do so on its own face, without any external reference.

This what I was looking for some OFFICAL statement about this-I had not seen the AFM before.

I would still say its a matter of opinion as to which catagory photos or recipts fall into, as either one could be faked.

Thanks for the info!

[caityrose 0]

Well, I'm including plenty of pictures- whether they be primary or secondary- the adjudicator can decide what my pictures are worth. I bought a cellphone while in Mexico though, so my receipt should be able to prove that my fiance and I are in love and our relationship is real, right? haha, just kidding. sorry- I'm feeling quite stressed this evening as I put the finishing touches on the petition.