OBAMA SPEECH IN FULL: A MORE PERFECT UNION

[Dan J 277]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

I hear what you're saying, but Obama had no choice of grandmother and he had a choice of pastor.

Thats easier said than done. With the church my parents went to, it was all white. If you were a black person in that church, there would have been at least a couple members who would have make you feel unwelcome.

[Marlita 0]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

I hear what you're saying, but Obama had no choice of grandmother and he had a choice of pastor.

Thats easier said than done. With the church my parents went to, it was all white. If you were a black person in that church, there would have been at least a couple members who would have make you feel unwelcome.

Wow! I don't think I've ever gone to a Black church that made the person of another race feel unwelcome. Actuallly this is an issue that many minorities face.

[Dan J 277]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

I hear what you're saying, but Obama had no choice of grandmother and he had a choice of pastor.

Thats easier said than done. With the church my parents went to, it was all white. If you were a black person in that church, there would have been at least a couple members who would have make you feel unwelcome.

Wow! I don't think I've ever gone to a Black church that made the person of another race feel unwelcome. Actuallly this is an issue that many minorities face.

Not everyone in the chruch was like that, but there were a few. It was a church that was strongly rooted in its Finnish heritage.

For me, if there was any one thing that shaped my political views, it was exposure to the very conservative members of that church. My family doesn't go there anymore. But it took me, and a couple of my siblings leaving before my family left.

[kaydee457 13]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

You gotta problem with that? My statement can be just as true or just as false as saying they had nothing to do with it. There is no proof either way.

Wright may just have been thinking of the Tuskeegee community and the intentional Syphyllis outbreaks that many servicemen unknowingly passed on to their family members after receiving medicals. I don't know if it was true but hey, who knows?

Yes this was true. I bet there are many people who don't even know this story. Could the government be planting a lethal virus into unbeknownist patrons.....I think history proves this to be...YES THEY CAN.

I know of this story. He was very clearly speaking of HIV virus, as those were the words out of his mouth.

[kaydee457 13]

but I do think the man's voting record and stated positions should count for more than innuendo about what he may or may not believe (but which noone can prove). Its not exactly easy to "prove" character after all.

There are well established standards to evaluate a persons character and assess risk if any. Anyone that's ever held a high level security clearance understands this.

What you do in the present, or have done in the past, are evaluated. Memberships in organizations, including churches are evaluated, and length of memberships, and specific association to that organization.

Where you were educated, any associations or sororities you belong to, any offices held , etc. are also evaluated.

There was a time when the media felt obliged to vet a candidate similarly but in Obama’s case they seemed to be too busy focusing on his popular and superficial attributes.

is there any reason why John McCain should be let off easy for using racist words in public speech? Granted he did apologise for them - but these are things he has actually said and in most estimations would be a better reflection of what a person believes than something implied by association. That said of course - he has also publicly accepted the endorsement of John Hagee (a guy who has said some pretty controversial things about Jews, blacks and catholics) which must surely raise similar questions to those being leveled against Obama.

John McCain hasn't spent a lifetime making such comments. A casual remark, or one made in anger doesn't carry the same weight as a long term relationship in an organization that regularly uses such language. John Hagee is controversial, yes, but McCain isn't in the pews every week, and hasn't been for the past twenty years.

Personally I agree with the statement earlier that in all likelihood Obama isn't particularly religious - in fact, I wonder if any of the candidates really are. Still I don't think Don is being particularly fair in suggesting that if Obama is attending a church simply for political expediency that this in itself makes him unfit for office. Surely the same argument could also be brought to bear on any number of candidates past. These are all career politicians after all...

Perhaps he isn't particularly religious but that's never been the point of this debacle but rather his judgment in associating himself, and his family, with a minister that holds such anti-american beliefs. This is about politics, specifically Wright's politics, and Obama's tolerance, and apparent acceptance, of such beliefs for such a long period of time.

He's only now denounced those comments having been forced to do so, and reluctantly so. He uses phrases such as "nagging questions" when referring to Wright's politics as though it's a nuisance to Obama and we don't have a right to even question it.

Too bad for him.

Edited March 19, 2008 by kaydee457

[HAL 9000 96]

The point of the entire debate is going the way of nitpicking what is not even there in order to continue to smear campaign, wether liked or not, against a politician. Having psychic abilities into the judging of a relationship between a man and his church pastor seems to be a new method that perhaps needs to be shared in greater detail with the rest of the nation so as voters can also apply the same, rigorous standards to judge their favorite political figure.

Should we choose to find an Aquiles heel for Obama it will not be in Pastor Wright, no matter how much the issues continue to be befuddled with so much strange gossip.

Have a great day everyone.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There are well established standards to evaluate a persons character and assess risk if any. Anyone that's ever held a high level security clearance understands this.

What you do in the present, or have done in the past, are evaluated. Memberships in organizations, including churches are evaluated, and length of memberships, and specific association to that organization.

Where you were educated, any associations or sororities you belong to, any offices held , etc. are also evaluated.

There was a time when the media felt obliged to vet a candidate similarly but in Obama’s case they seemed to be too busy focusing on his popular and superficial attributes.

Well regarding character, risk and security clearance - that surely has more relevance to law enforcement than it does with public opinion.

But I agree that the media isn't doing a particularly good job these days - though I'm not sure its the case that Obama specifically is being given an easy ride - rather I think the media has been lagging in that regard for a number of years now, certainly ever since I've been living here, and likely even before that.

Politicians just don't get asked any particularly challenging questions - that so slogans are so popular in the public discourse Ion political issues speaks to that. Politicians simply shouldn't be allowed to get away with shallow party political talking points without at least being challenged and questioned at length. Unfortunately I think GWB is a prime example of this.

John McCain hasn't spent a lifetime making such comments. A casual remark, or one made in anger doesn't carry the same weight as a long term relationship in an organization that regularly uses such language. John Hagee is controversial, yes, but McCain isn't in the pews every week, and hasn't been for the past twenty years.

Perhaps not a lifetime - but more than 20 years. And he hasn't been exactly shy about using that word on numerous occasions up until he realised that it risked alienating him from the asian american community. I do think its a problem - and not something that be dismissed as simply "out of anger". That might have been the case once - but people usually soft their rhetoric somewhat after time. Can a person really be angry for 20 years - I'm not so sure... At the very least though - that he didn't blink about using certain racially-charged rhetoric is a problem because it conveys some impression of belief, or at least cluelessness about what kinds of things are acceptable to say in public speech.

Perhaps he isn't particularly religious but that's never been the point of this debacle but rather his judgment in associating himself, and his family, with a minister that holds such anti-american beliefs. This is about politics, specifically Wright's politics, and Obama's tolerance, and apparent acceptance, of such beliefs for such a long period of time.

He's only now denounced those comments having been forced to do so, and reluctantly so. He uses phrases such as "nagging questions" when referring to Wright's politics as though it's a nuisance to Obama and we don't have a right to even question it.

Too bad for him.

Well as I say - Wright isn't some rogue individual, nor is this a "extreme minority" church we're talking about. Wright is a representative of a pretty well established branch of theology - I think some consideration of that has to play into considerations of his sermons. The problem of course in doing that is that the focus is taken off Wright and his relationship to Obama and put on a part of the black community, in the same way that bible belt churches represent a certain subset of the white community. In other words - creating a larger issue of race relations that goes beyond what one man said and towards what a larger group of people actually believe.

I don't think they're that dissimilar to be honest - especially where you have candidates like Mike Huckabee, who while he seemed like a nice enough guy was deeply involved with the baptist church and held some pretty wacky ideas of his own (and wasn't shy about expressing them).

That said I haven't known any presidential candidate not to have some sort of affiliation with, or involvement with a church group - it seems to be expected. I'm rather cynical about these things - whether the candidates have genuine belief or are merely part of these organisations for political expediency.

[garya505 2]

you know you can choose not to associate yourself with granparents too right?

Not really. His grandmother helped raise him, which was not his choice. He chose to have Wright as a mentor and spiritual leader. Big difference.

I don't believe Rev. Wright is representative of the mainstream of Black Liberation Theology. I also don't think you need to use hatred, distortions, and outright lies to promote the empowerment and self-determination that Black Liberation Theology seeks to provide. At least I hope not.

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation. While his loyalty is noble, the fact remains that he chose to associate himself with an extremist and continues to do so. That's the whole point.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

[garya505 2]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

I watched it live. I thought it was an excellent speech, one of the best I've ever heard.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I am so sick of this story all ready - watching Fox news (because someone has to) last night you wouldn't have known about the Bear Stearns bailout, the subsequent interest rate cut, the recent 5 year anniversary in Iraq, the record breaking price of oil, because apparently the future of this country rests of whether Obama went to church on what day and what the sermon was the day his kids were baptized.

Too bad the Bush relationship with the Bin Ladens wasn't given the same degree of scrutiny in 2000. That relationship is said to have existed for about 20 years as well.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

I watched it live. I thought it was an excellent speech, one of the best I've ever heard.

And yet, from your statement above, it seems that at least on certain passages of that speech he didn't quite get through to you.

[MandR 0]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

I read that line and again it still states the same thing, nothing changed.

"He could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother"

Can you give me another meaning to this that I and others are not getting

Edited March 19, 2008 by MandR

[garya505 2]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

I watched it live. I thought it was an excellent speech, one of the best I've ever heard.

And yet, from your statement above, it seems that at least on certain passages of that speech he didn't quite get through to you.

Do you mean will I vote for him? No.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As Obama said, he could no more disown Wright than disown his own white grandmother. What he's saying there is that he feels a same attachment or obligation.

I don't think that's what he said at all. Re-read what the man said. And this time try to understand it too.

I watched it live. I thought it was an excellent speech, one of the best I've ever heard.

And yet, from your statement above, it seems that at least on certain passages of that speech he didn't quite get through to you.

Do you mean will I vote for him? No.

That's obviously not what I meant. What I meant was that you didn't understand what he said.