OBAMA SPEECH IN FULL: A MORE PERFECT UNION

[Marlita 0]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

[kaydee457 13]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

[Marlita 0]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

You gotta problem with that? My statement can be just as true or just as false as saying they had nothing to do with it. There is no proof either way.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

You gotta problem with that? My statement can be just as true or just as false as saying they had nothing to do with it. There is no proof either way.

Well just the fact that you could believe it possible is a very scary thought. But we really do not need to teach the children this is possible, or our future will be very difficult for everyone.

[HAL 9000 96]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

Cultural and social anger are not things that are forgotten overnight.

I think its not about being divisive. Forgoing an obvious history is tantamount to desiring its repetition. Obviously race relations HAVE improved without a reasonable doubt... as the times have evolved where GREEN paper is becoming more important in all aspects than skin color... but I find it incredibly hard to take the word of people that have very most likely not experienced first hand any racism- direct or the more common indirect kind.

Plus there's the obvious economic ramnifications of more than two centuries of history to contend with and the present day foundations of communities that continue to live in conditions contrary to any kind of reparations to a system that built an entire nation yet disenfranchised the builders. Call it liberalism to even the score to fairness...

[HAL 9000 96]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

You gotta problem with that? My statement can be just as true or just as false as saying they had nothing to do with it. There is no proof either way.

Wright may just have been thinking of the Tuskeegee community and the intentional Syphyllis outbreaks that many servicemen unknowingly passed on to their family members after receiving medicals. I don't know if it was true but hey, who knows?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

This post just shows how little you are able to comprehend what the man said. Or to grasp the concept of context. Try to read it again. And if that doesn't do it, read it again. And again. Eventually, you might just get it. It should be an enlightening experience.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

By the comments and innuendos in this thread alone, to me, are strong indicators (not that necessarily needed any to prove) that we still have a long way to go in the race relations game in America. Not to mention, that American’s (including myself) are too self righteous, at times, and are quick to condemn. Well, it’s too bad for the Democrats because their race for the White House may well be finished, if the polls have even a speck of reliability. Time will tell…

[Heracles 417]

I saw Obama's speech and saw his response on nightline. I tell you this guy has a tough job ahead of him. I respect him much more than I do hillary. The issue I have with Wright's comments is not with Obama directly but with the double standards on racial comments in America.

And yes I admit I think it is wrong to hold Obama personally responsible for these issues.

Edited March 19, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Obama's error in judgement is this. He liked Wright's good work and he liked his preaching so much that he was willing to overlook the bad side - the anger and hateful words Wright used in his sermons, or as he put it, Wright's "offending sermons about America -- to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality". Obama now admits that he had heard some of the "controversial" remarks while sitting in the pews. Obama could have, and should have, found another pastor that did good work without resorting to the sort of stuff Wright did. Failing that, he should have distanced himself earlier, saying that despite Wright's good work in the community, he had found out the bad side of him, the negativity and anger-filled rants, and decided to look elsewhere for his spirtual needs. He could have easily demontrated that he believes what he says about unity. Certainly there are other churches that could have filled that role for Obama.

Well the focus so far has been specifically on Wright - there hasn't been much discussion of the Liberation Theology that he actually represents. Wright isn't a particularly unique individual when it comes to this - and I'm not sure that his comments can be pulled up for scrutiny without giving at least some consideration to the ideological movement behind them.

I'm not sure what ideological movement you're talking about, however you're right in that this fellow Wright's not unique.

He follows in the footsteps, and parallels the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and lesser notables of similar race baiting, and "black victimization" rhetoric used to separate the races rather than unify.

This is exactly what some senior blacks in the U.S. community have railed against for years, most notably Bill Cosby.

Bill postulates that it's counterproductive to continue a dialog of victimization, mostly not relevant in modern times, as a primary way to indoctrinate children into what it means to be a black child in the U.S.A.

It's certainly not hard to imagine black children on a regular basis, and at a very young age, being indoctrinated , or conditioned, by being told that they're on the losing end of the "dream" from the get-go.

In fact, subjecting children to such conditioning probably should be considered abuse.

It's not hard to understand why some blacks you casually encounter in life are hyper sensitive to race.

Liberation Theology - there's a bit about it on wiki.

I'm not saying Obama should be given an easy ride over this - but I do think the man's voting record and stated positions should count for more than innuendo about what he may or may not believe (but which noone can prove). Its not exactly easy to "prove" character after all.

I mean - if we're looking at this honestly here, is there any reason why John McCain should be let off easy for using racist words in public speech? Granted he did apologise for them - but these are things he has actually said and in most estimations would be a better reflection of what a person believes than something implied by association. That said of course - he has also publicly accepted the endorsement of John Hagee (a guy who has said some pretty controversial things about Jews, blacks and catholics) which must surely raise similar questions to those being leveled against Obama.

I don't think a person can run for public office and certainly not get as far as a presidential race without interacting with the religious community. If you have to join a church to facilitate that - I don't think that's particularly revolutionary... If I had to guess - McCain's acceptance of Hagee probably also has something to do with political expediency.

Personally I agree with the statement earlier that in all likelihood Obama isn't particularly religious - in fact, I wonder if any of the candidates really are. Still I don't think Don is being particularly fair in suggesting that if Obama is attending a church simply for political expediency that this in itself makes him unfit for office. Surely the same argument could also be brought to bear on any number of candidates past. These are all career politicians after all...

[Dan J 277]

Obama's error in judgement is this. He liked Wright's good work and he liked his preaching so much that he was willing to overlook the bad side - the anger and hateful words Wright used in his sermons, or as he put it, Wright's "offending sermons about America -- to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality". Obama now admits that he had heard some of the "controversial" remarks while sitting in the pews. Obama could have, and should have, found another pastor that did good work without resorting to the sort of stuff Wright did. Failing that, he should have distanced himself earlier, saying that despite Wright's good work in the community, he had found out the bad side of him, the negativity and anger-filled rants, and decided to look elsewhere for his spirtual needs. He could have easily demontrated that he believes what he says about unity. Certainly there are other churches that could have filled that role for Obama.

Well the focus so far has been specifically on Wright - there hasn't been much discussion of the Liberation Theology that he actually represents. Wright isn't a particularly unique individual when it comes to this - and I'm not sure that his comments can be pulled up for scrutiny without giving at least some consideration to the ideological movement behind them.

I'm not sure what ideological movement you're talking about, however you're right in that this fellow Wright's not unique.

He follows in the footsteps, and parallels the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and lesser notables of similar race baiting, and "black victimization" rhetoric used to separate the races rather than unify.

This is exactly what some senior blacks in the U.S. community have railed against for years, most notably Bill Cosby.

Bill postulates that it's counterproductive to continue a dialog of victimization, mostly not relevant in modern times, as a primary way to indoctrinate children into what it means to be a black child in the U.S.A.

It's certainly not hard to imagine black children on a regular basis, and at a very young age, being indoctrinated , or conditioned, by being told that they're on the losing end of the "dream" from the get-go.

In fact, subjecting children to such conditioning probably should be considered abuse.

It's not hard to understand why some blacks you casually encounter in life are hyper sensitive to race.

Liberation Theology - there's a bit about it on wiki.

I'm not saying Obama should be given an easy ride over this - but I do think the man's voting record and stated positions should count for more than innuendo about what he may or may not believe (but which noone can prove). Its not exactly easy to "prove" character after all.

I mean - if we're looking at this honestly here, is there any reason why John McCain should be let off easy for using racist words in public speech? Granted he did apologise for them - but these are things he has actually said and in most estimations would be a better reflection of what a person believes than something implied by association. That said of course - he has also publicly accepted the endorsement of John Hagee (a guy who has said some pretty controversial things about Jews, blacks and catholics) which must surely raise similar questions to those being leveled against Obama.

I don't think a person can run for public office and certainly not get as far as a presidential race without interacting with the religious community. If you have to join a church to facilitate that - I don't think that's particularly revolutionary... If I had to guess - McCain's acceptance of Hagee probably also has something to do with political expediency.

Personally I agree with the statement earlier that in all likelihood Obama isn't particularly religious - in fact, I wonder if any of the candidates really are. Still I don't think Don is being particularly fair in suggesting that if Obama is attending a church simply for political expediency that this in itself makes him unfit for office. Surely the same argument could also be brought to bear on any number of candidates past. These are all career politicians after all...

The most annoying thing about this whole issue, is the double standard in treatment given Obama vs McCain. In the end, Obama has to repudiate Wright. While McCain accepts the endorsement of Hagee.

Shouldnt we be asking McCain to repudiate Hagee?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Obama's error in judgement is this. He liked Wright's good work and he liked his preaching so much that he was willing to overlook the bad side - the anger and hateful words Wright used in his sermons, or as he put it, Wright's "offending sermons about America -- to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality". Obama now admits that he had heard some of the "controversial" remarks while sitting in the pews. Obama could have, and should have, found another pastor that did good work without resorting to the sort of stuff Wright did. Failing that, he should have distanced himself earlier, saying that despite Wright's good work in the community, he had found out the bad side of him, the negativity and anger-filled rants, and decided to look elsewhere for his spirtual needs. He could have easily demontrated that he believes what he says about unity. Certainly there are other churches that could have filled that role for Obama.

Well the focus so far has been specifically on Wright - there hasn't been much discussion of the Liberation Theology that he actually represents. Wright isn't a particularly unique individual when it comes to this - and I'm not sure that his comments can be pulled up for scrutiny without giving at least some consideration to the ideological movement behind them.

I'm not sure what ideological movement you're talking about, however you're right in that this fellow Wright's not unique.

He follows in the footsteps, and parallels the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and lesser notables of similar race baiting, and "black victimization" rhetoric used to separate the races rather than unify.

This is exactly what some senior blacks in the U.S. community have railed against for years, most notably Bill Cosby.

Bill postulates that it's counterproductive to continue a dialog of victimization, mostly not relevant in modern times, as a primary way to indoctrinate children into what it means to be a black child in the U.S.A.

It's certainly not hard to imagine black children on a regular basis, and at a very young age, being indoctrinated , or conditioned, by being told that they're on the losing end of the "dream" from the get-go.

In fact, subjecting children to such conditioning probably should be considered abuse.

It's not hard to understand why some blacks you casually encounter in life are hyper sensitive to race.

Liberation Theology - there's a bit about it on wiki.

I'm not saying Obama should be given an easy ride over this - but I do think the man's voting record and stated positions should count for more than innuendo about what he may or may not believe (but which noone can prove). Its not exactly easy to "prove" character after all.

I mean - if we're looking at this honestly here, is there any reason why John McCain should be let off easy for using racist words in public speech? Granted he did apologise for them - but these are things he has actually said and in most estimations would be a better reflection of what a person believes than something implied by association. That said of course - he has also publicly accepted the endorsement of John Hagee (a guy who has said some pretty controversial things about Jews, blacks and catholics) which must surely raise similar questions to those being leveled against Obama.

I don't think a person can run for public office and certainly not get as far as a presidential race without interacting with the religious community. If you have to join a church to facilitate that - I don't think that's particularly revolutionary... If I had to guess - McCain's acceptance of Hagee probably also has something to do with political expediency.

Personally I agree with the statement earlier that in all likelihood Obama isn't particularly religious - in fact, I wonder if any of the candidates really are. Still I don't think Don is being particularly fair in suggesting that if Obama is attending a church simply for political expediency that this in itself makes him unfit for office. Surely the same argument could also be brought to bear on any number of candidates past. These are all career politicians after all...

The most annoying thing about this whole issue, is the double standard in treatment given Obama vs McCain. In the end, Obama has to repudiate Wright. While McCain accepts the endorsement of Hagee.

Shouldnt we be asking McCain to repudiate Hagee?

That might yet come out. If association to one church and its pastor implies that one candidate must hold certain beliefs, then that same rationale applies to another candidate who has accepted a public endorsement from an equally controversial church figure.

If I believed in those arguments, and I don't particularly - I'd say McCain is on just as shaky ground for that reason. However the statements he himself has made are rather more damaging IMO - given that when you say offensive or controversial things yourself, its a lot harder to mitigate than an implication through the words of another. McCain did (frequently and publicly) use the word "######" up until the year 2000 to describe his torturers in Vietnam, but stopped after it got media attention and offended members of the asian american community. He has, of course, apologised for it and has refrained from using terms like that since - but if Obama can't apologise or be up front about his beliefs why should McCain have an easy ride for essentially the same thing?

There's fuzzy logic at work I think - but getting hung up on a person's image, as we are now, precludes a discussion of policy issues. For the people behind the scenes who are propagating this stuff - I think that's the point.

[Marlita 0]

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

Whats wrong with that?

he's probably known Wright longer than his grandmother....she passed away. You don't have to be blood related to be family.

Obama puts his Grandmother who is family on the same page as he does Reverend Wright as per his comment in his speech.

"I can no more disown him that I can my white Grandmother" Oh Lord.... whats up with that ?????

Just shows me even more why I don't want him running this country

That's right, Obama is pretty tight with a guy who claims the US government gives drugs to black communities and started the HIV epidemic, ....

Well heck...they could have.

You gotta problem with that? My statement can be just as true or just as false as saying they had nothing to do with it. There is no proof either way.

Wright may just have been thinking of the Tuskeegee community and the intentional Syphyllis outbreaks that many servicemen unknowingly passed on to their family members after receiving medicals. I don't know if it was true but hey, who knows?

Yes this was true. I bet there are many people who don't even know this story. Could the government be planting a lethal virus into unbeknownist patrons.....I think history proves this to be...YES THEY CAN.

[garya505 2]

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

I hear what you're saying, but Obama had no choice of grandmother and he had a choice of pastor.

[Marlita 0]

Obama's error in judgement is this. He liked Wright's good work and he liked his preaching so much that he was willing to overlook the bad side - the anger and hateful words Wright used in his sermons, or as he put it, Wright's "offending sermons about America -- to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality". Obama now admits that he had heard some of the "controversial" remarks while sitting in the pews. Obama could have, and should have, found another pastor that did good work without resorting to the sort of stuff Wright did. Failing that, he should have distanced himself earlier, saying that despite Wright's good work in the community, he had found out the bad side of him, the negativity and anger-filled rants, and decided to look elsewhere for his spirtual needs. He could have easily demontrated that he believes what he says about unity. Certainly there are other churches that could have filled that role for Obama.

Well the focus so far has been specifically on Wright - there hasn't been much discussion of the Liberation Theology that he actually represents. Wright isn't a particularly unique individual when it comes to this - and I'm not sure that his comments can be pulled up for scrutiny without giving at least some consideration to the ideological movement behind them.

I'm not sure what ideological movement you're talking about, however you're right in that this fellow Wright's not unique.

He follows in the footsteps, and parallels the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and lesser notables of similar race baiting, and "black victimization" rhetoric used to separate the races rather than unify.

This is exactly what some senior blacks in the U.S. community have railed against for years, most notably Bill Cosby.

Bill postulates that it's counterproductive to continue a dialog of victimization, mostly not relevant in modern times, as a primary way to indoctrinate children into what it means to be a black child in the U.S.A.

It's certainly not hard to imagine black children on a regular basis, and at a very young age, being indoctrinated , or conditioned, by being told that they're on the losing end of the "dream" from the get-go.

In fact, subjecting children to such conditioning probably should be considered abuse.

It's not hard to understand why some blacks you casually encounter in life are hyper sensitive to race.

Liberation Theology - there's a bit about it on wiki.

I'm not saying Obama should be given an easy ride over this - but I do think the man's voting record and stated positions should count for more than innuendo about what he may or may not believe (but which noone can prove). Its not exactly easy to "prove" character after all.

I mean - if we're looking at this honestly here, is there any reason why John McCain should be let off easy for using racist words in public speech? Granted he did apologise for them - but these are things he has actually said and in most estimations would be a better reflection of what a person believes than something implied by association. That said of course - he has also publicly accepted the endorsement of John Hagee (a guy who has said some pretty controversial things about Jews, blacks and catholics) which must surely raise similar questions to those being leveled against Obama.

I don't think a person can run for public office and certainly not get as far as a presidential race without interacting with the religious community. If you have to join a church to facilitate that - I don't think that's particularly revolutionary... If I had to guess - McCain's acceptance of Hagee probably also has something to do with political expediency.

Personally I agree with the statement earlier that in all likelihood Obama isn't particularly religious - in fact, I wonder if any of the candidates really are. Still I don't think Don is being particularly fair in suggesting that if Obama is attending a church simply for political expediency that this in itself makes him unfit for office. Surely the same argument could also be brought to bear on any number of candidates past. These are all career politicians after all...

The most annoying thing about this whole issue, is the double standard in treatment given Obama vs McCain. In the end, Obama has to repudiate Wright. While McCain accepts the endorsement of Hagee.

Shouldnt we be asking McCain to repudiate Hagee?

That might yet come out. If association to one church and its pastor implies that one candidate must hold certain beliefs, then that same rationale applies to another candidate who has accepted a public endorsement from an equally controversial church figure.

If I believed in those arguments, and I don't particularly - I'd say McCain is on just as shaky ground for that reason. However the statements he himself has made are rather more damaging IMO - given that when you say offensive or controversial things yourself, its a lot harder to mitigate than an implication through the words of another. McCain did (frequently and publicly) use the word "######" up until the year 2000 to describe his torturers in Vietnam, but stopped after it got media attention and offended members of the asian american community. He has, of course, apologised for it and has refrained from using terms like that since - but if Obama can't apologise or be up front about his beliefs why should McCain have an easy ride for essentially the same thing?

There's fuzzy logic at work I think - but getting hung up on a person's image, as we are now, precludes a discussion of policy issues. For the people behind the scenes who are propagating this stuff - I think that's the point.

Well we all know what the "fuzzy" issue is. Well at least some of us know. Yes McCain should be getting reprimanded but guess what...he's not. Why? Who knows. I think the issue is more of trying to smear Obama rather than stop racial ranting in the church. I can tell you this. Most Black people I know would think Obama a coward if he decided to say that he will no longer associate himself with Wright. And these are Blacks who may or may not agree with Wright. The issue I would find here is that if Obama disassociated himself with this man I'd feel that he was not standing his ground and just doing what he was told. I DON"T want a president like that. I think Obama handled the issue of what ANOTHER man said, perfectly fine. Now if we heard Obama himself saying these things then this whole situation would be entirely different. This is just unfortuante that he has to pay the price of someone elses rants and raves. On to the next issue, cause we already know the media will be looking for something else.

Oh yeah, and as far as Kaydee....haha...I can always tell when its your posts even without seeing your name. You write in the same style. Always using big words and mentioning Al Sharpton, racism and getting over it, or Black Nationalism (whatever that is). Boy, youre like those old school guys that went to jail and got all this knowledge in the Penn cause they had nothing but time to read books, so they come out of jail using bug words and talking politics yet they really don't know nothing of whats the reality cause theyve been locked up for the past 20 years. Man, I really wish I could meet you in the streets cause you're a character. Everything you write makes me laugh...its like an old In Living Color sketch comedy where one of the Wayans brothers played the "educated" inmate.

Man I feel like I need to open a thread called "Ask a Black Person"

There seems to be alot of lost knowledge going on here and I am assuming it is because...once again...people do not understand Black culture. This is partly the fault of Black Americans bit more so the fault of those who haven't taken the time to understand our history.

The things that Wright said are his words...they are also the beliefs of many Black Americans. Shocker isnt it?! Well its true, but its also true that many of us do not feel what he is saying. However people we need to understand and realize that their are still many Black people living in this country who experienced som hard hard racism...killings, lynchings, segregations, N words galore, discriminations.....these people are my parents...my grandparents....this stuff didnt happen that long ago! So we have a generation that has become an angry product of those times. What can I do....just never speak to my grandparents...ignore all that they have told me...tell then shut up and get over it? Heck no!!! What I do is understand why they vemenetly feel this way and I make it my goal to try to continue changing the future generations...and trust me its changing.

As far as Obama...he's in this same situation. And in actuality he may not even understand it as much as many Black Americans do. The thing is Obama is culturally NOT a Black-American..his Black father was from Kenya, Africa......totally different continent people totally different culture than American Blacks. Obam was raised by an American White woman so in a sense he doesnt even have the stories that other BA have been hearing from generations before them. I just think people are putting him on "trial" for something he really cannot control. I think he is doing a GREAT job trying to explain it all but it also takes a little effort from the rest of the American people to get out there and search for their own knowledge and understanding when it comes to the Black American, because truthfull Obama cannot have all the answers.

I hear what you're saying, but Obama had no choice of grandmother and he had a choice of pastor.

you know you can choose not to associate yourself with granparents too right?