How much do you really know about your MENA man?

[Jenn! 918]

I agree...I can look back over my past relationships and see the flags and warnings now...hind site is foresite. I know some warning flags are:

1. asking to borrow any money

2. Talking about how needy the family is

3. Not paying for anything when u visit or when he comes...(if he has means to do so)

4. Disappearing for periods of time

5. Long lags in chat times

6. Fast engagement or marriage not wanting to wait

7. having his passport ready to go with to much knowledge of visa processes...talking alot about how his other friends made it to usa

8. family that have passport applications ready before your first visit and often refer to visiting u in america after u are married

9. Lagging in filing, disinterest

10. Not contributing to relationship aas much as you are

11. Saying he wont want another wife...but still believes it ok

12. Says little controling things..like what to wear, how much to eat

13. Refuses to sign any sort of contract

14. Always seems willing to have u live there...but always finds a reason why usa would be better for you both..

any others i missed?

I'm not getting 9 and 11. If a guy is not quick to file or showing disinterest in filing how on earth is that a red flag for a green card guy?

Also, a lot of muslim men will defend that it is their right to marry more than one wife but they don't choose to so I'm not certain why that one's a flag either.

Well, between #7 and #9 it's kinda you're damned if you do and damned if you don't!

[irahaymeh 0]

Tammy, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. You are so nice, loving and kind and do not deserve this kind of treatment. My prayers are with you that you will find strength and know that God has not forgotten your labor of love. I pray that God will give you "double for your trouble" (more love, more finances, more happiness, more blessings)

Thank you for having the courage to tell your story and warn others to beware of these manipulative, cunning men ("wolves who come in sheep's clothing). Believe me I have my eyes and ears open and appreciate this type warning from you and other MENA wives. Everytime I see a "red flag" in my own marriage since my husband has been here, I expose it for what it is and so far have been able to weather the storm and persevere. He did not want to work a menial job here so he took a job as a translator in Iraq

[irahaymeh 0]

Tammy, I am so sorry that this has happened to you. You are so nice, loving and kind and do not deserve this kind of treatment. My prayers are with you that you will find strength and know that God has not forgotten your labor of love. I pray that God will give you "double for your trouble" (more love, more finances, more happiness, more blessings)

Thank you for having the courage to tell your story and warn others to beware of these manipulative, cunning men ("wolves who come in sheep's clothing). Believe me I have my eyes and ears open and appreciate this type warning from you and other MENA wives. Everytime I see a "red flag" in my own marriage since my husband has been here, I expose it for what it is and so far have been able to weather the storm and persevere. He did not want to work a menial job here so he took a job as a translator in Iraq and makes really good money. We have a joint bank account which I monitor very closely. He does send his son a monthly allowance but most of the money remains in our account, and believe me, I do plan to use it here for our family.

Whenever any of the MENA wives share a disheartened story, it is a "wake up call alert" for all of us not to put all of our trust in these men nor take anything for granted or let anything slip by. I for one plan to get as much as I can out of him before he tries to get over on me.

As Jackie said, you are not alone. Thanks for reminding all of us to "keep our eyes open".

[brnidokiegurl 0]

In re reading all this and knowing this subject is nothing new on here maybe the women should ask themselves first

did we not already know about the risks

did we not already know of the custom to want to send money home

we knew they wouldnt work quickly,

did we think they would come here and be our knight in shining armor to take care of us and all our problems

those with kids, were your men acustomed to being around children and takeing a backseat to the needs of small children

not directed to any of us but in general maybe we expect to much to quick, have the talks, make the budget and make it to where they understand the situation and what is expected, yes a small amt can be sent home but only if our situation is under control. Remember the upbringing of our kids are different to what they have seen, their mothers and sisters have spoiled them, are we prepared to do the same? the tests wont work...anyone with bad intentions already has these answers down. we go into this with hope there is both good and bad and we have seen both on here

[sarahaziz 0]

I agree with Brnidokiegirl

Yeah you have those women who are just plain numb to understand anything cuz their blinded by love some people with kids and other attatchments that restrict them from dating i mean when some man shows compassion to someone in a lonely situation craving for love it's hard NOT to fall.

If women don't want their men sending money back home or anything else like that you have to make that point made KNOWN before marriage. Before marriage I told him his mother was my aunt but that didn't mean I would accept him to come by my citizenship to start a new life to help anyone back home. I then realized I was being kind of selfish since his papa has passed away since he was 18 years old I remember that time everyone was crying their eyes out especially his mother I was soo young i didn't pay attn to it back then. She never remarried out of respect to his father and she takes care of all 6 kids by herself. After marriage his family is my family 100% my family is his family 100%. He tucked my dad in bed LIterally tucked him in bed fed him water by hand and gave medicine when he was sick. He worked really hard for his money to support his mother and when my dad came to finalize the marriage he didn't let us pay 1 penny all the plane tickets food, car, etc etc he had everything ready before so we couldnt argue about who would pay. Those are the good faces from my spouse that have made me stick by him through 1 year no webcam internet chatting only phone calls everyday and a hell lot of fighting. Even tho I keep my guard up it's good to let it down sometimes. Red flags can't be easily detected if you guys have such a long history together. I agree with that but I also believe it's better not to be stupid and let things take its course without putting effort to see what kind of man you've married.

Pretty much the only stable red flags I can think of is Acknowledging before marriage if he marries you how the process would be done (obviously any woman would run at that point)

Talking about how he needs money and has none (shows such an unstable man if he wants a pity party visa instead of respect by love and marriage)

Doesn't call/pickup your phone calls acts too busy with friends/family never puts effort in the relationship

And pretty much your gut feelings.

[simple_male 1]

Tammy, I am sorry to hear your situations. Please be strong.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Okay, so we all love our MENA men, but what do we know about him? I mean, come one, I can be anyone you want me to be online, but how much will I follow thru with when you meet me in the real? So, online he seems to be kind, loving, funny, deep, romantic, everything you want in a man, right?

But, how much of it is really "him"?

In my experience it has been not much at all.

Soon after my hubby arrived here, eveything was sunlight and roses, perfect.

Then, two weeks later, he moved into the spare bedroom.

I didn't make much of it at first, we still had our "nightly visits" and he said it was because my kids kept him from sleeping. I kinda like having the bed and the blankets to my self, so I didn't protest to much.

Then, the night visits became few and far between, and for the past two months have been non existant.

He kept saying he needed to find work so he could help me and his family also. Okay, I agree he should help his family, as long as ours is taken care of. But, he landed a small temporary job for cash. Helping out a friend of mine with snow removal, on a short term basis. Guess what? He has hung onto every penny of that money except to buy a few packs of cigarettes for himself. I had to use my tax refund to buy food for the house, all the while he is hanging onto his money. He brought no money with him when he came, I have paid for everthing all of this time.

I know, you have heard this story before, and I am not out for sympathy, or "I told you so". Yeah, I knew the risks I was taking when I got into this relationship for the most part. Of course I was sure that he loved me, I loved him, our lives would be perfect. Same old story. For a while I was happy, for a while we lived as friends, now the AOS has been filed and he is waiting for his work permit. I am hoping that when he get's his work permit he will remove himself from my house and I can get my life back to normal. I kinda feel sorry for him and won't throw him out with no where to go and no way to support himself, that's just me.

I guess the point I am trying to make is this: Make sure, before you sign the first paper, before you marry, before you do anything, that you really KNOW the person. Divorce is hard at best, but when you add all the other things to it, the waiting, the money, the turmoil, it's really devastating.

great advice! maintaining dignity and self-respecting behavior is the last thing anyone needs in that kind of situation!

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

Okay. First let me thank everyone for all their input. Some of it has been very interesting indeed.

Yes, we did discuss his wanting to send money home to his family beforehand. I had no problem with it at all. I would do the same if the positions were reversed and my family needed help financially. I would be greatly offended if his answer was, no. I have a full time job, make decent money, and at the time was mostly debt free. Supporting him was never an issue with me, I knew that when he got here I would be the sole supporter of the family.for the first few months. To me this wasn't a problem as really, how much can one more person cost to support? He has no medical problems, no financial obligations to speak of. I made it clear to him that until he had his work permit there was no way we could send money to his family and he said he understood.

I knew him for about six months online before we even discussed my visiting him there. He offered to buy my ticket, I refused. Guess I didn't want to feel obligated to do anything I wasn't ready for when I did visit him. He did pay for the apartment we had when I was there, and for most of everything we ate and did also. Of course there were times I paid, but it was because I wanted to, not because I felt I had to. While I was there he was charming, loving, attentive, and of course I knew I was being courted. I was not blind to the fact that he was paying extra attention to me because he had an objective. It's the same in all courtships, no matter where the man is from.

Funny thing is, he was nothing like my ex husband, or my son's father, or any other man I had ever been attracted to or involved with. He seemed so much more mature than me, even though he is younger, conducted himself appropriately, treated his family and friends with respect. When he asked me if I would marry him, I thought, yeah, I could do this for the rest of my life.

I can't really think of any blaring red signs. We argued sometimes, who doesn't? There were some days when he wouldn't come online, but there were days I didn't go online either. He never asked me for money, never seemed to expect anything from me except to love him. I did pay for most of the immigration fees and his plane ticket, but how many of us do that? I think more than not. Except for a few gifts I sent to his family on my own decision, that was about it.

Everything seemed to happen after he got here. Porn on my computer, women's yahoo profiles, myspace women, e mail accounts in other screen names, just to mention a few.

As far as saving the marriage? I don't know about that. It seems that so many things have been said by both of us that there is no way that could be possible now. I wish I could say differently.

I am not really bitter, that is the funny part. I knew the risk I was taking, I went into this with my eyes wide open to what could happen, and I wanted to take the risk. To do it and know, is far better than not ever taking the risk and wondering my whole life what could have been. What if I hadn't done this and missed out on a lifetime of happiness? Shame on me for being scared.

I don't hate him, I don't blame him for most of this. Maybe it's the norm for them, I don't know. What I do know is that I am not an arabic woman, I am American and I won't sit and let my life be destroyed by anyone. So, saving the marriage, I doubt there is any hope for that.

[Caladan 19]

tammy, I'm so sorry to hear of this. You are very strong, and very brave to share this that it might help others in the same position. All luck and strength as you resolve this.

[HannahP 119]

I am not really bitter, that is the funny part. I knew the risk I was taking, I went into this with my eyes wide open to what could happen, and I wanted to take the risk. To do it and know, is far better than not ever taking the risk and wondering my whole life what could have been. What if I hadn't done this and missed out on a lifetime of happiness? Shame on me for being scared.

These are strong words.

Certainly, I can't imagine what it's like to fall in love with a MENA man. My husband and I have this conversation all the time. Him: "Can't they see that they're being used?" Me: "I don't know."

I still don't understand Internet Love.

I can't comprehend why someone would fall in love with a man who is so far away; someone who may or may not be using you for a greencard and you probably have no clue.

But I have so much respect for the women that take a risk and put their hearts out there.

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Tammy,

I am so sorry this has happened to you and your family. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

Please lean on friends and family.

Do whatever feels right in your heart.

Lisa

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Okay. First let me thank everyone for all their input. Some of it has been very interesting indeed.

Yes, we did discuss his wanting to send money home to his family beforehand. I had no problem with it at all. I would do the same if the positions were reversed and my family needed help financially. I would be greatly offended if his answer was, no. I have a full time job, make decent money, and at the time was mostly debt free. Supporting him was never an issue with me, I knew that when he got here I would be the sole supporter of the family.for the first few months. To me this wasn't a problem as really, how much can one more person cost to support? He has no medical problems, no financial obligations to speak of. I made it clear to him that until he had his work permit there was no way we could send money to his family and he said he understood.

I knew him for about six months online before we even discussed my visiting him there. He offered to buy my ticket, I refused. Guess I didn't want to feel obligated to do anything I wasn't ready for when I did visit him. He did pay for the apartment we had when I was there, and for most of everything we ate and did also. Of course there were times I paid, but it was because I wanted to, not because I felt I had to. While I was there he was charming, loving, attentive, and of course I knew I was being courted. I was not blind to the fact that he was paying extra attention to me because he had an objective. It's the same in all courtships, no matter where the man is from.

Funny thing is, he was nothing like my ex husband, or my son's father, or any other man I had ever been attracted to or involved with. He seemed so much more mature than me, even though he is younger, conducted himself appropriately, treated his family and friends with respect. When he asked me if I would marry him, I thought, yeah, I could do this for the rest of my life.

I can't really think of any blaring red signs. We argued sometimes, who doesn't? There were some days when he wouldn't come online, but there were days I didn't go online either. He never asked me for money, never seemed to expect anything from me except to love him. I did pay for most of the immigration fees and his plane ticket, but how many of us do that? I think more than not. Except for a few gifts I sent to his family on my own decision, that was about it.

Everything seemed to happen after he got here. Porn on my computer, women's yahoo profiles, myspace women, e mail accounts in other screen names, just to mention a few.

As far as saving the marriage? I don't know about that. It seems that so many things have been said by both of us that there is no way that could be possible now. I wish I could say differently.

I am not really bitter, that is the funny part. I knew the risk I was taking, I went into this with my eyes wide open to what could happen, and I wanted to take the risk. To do it and know, is far better than not ever taking the risk and wondering my whole life what could have been. What if I hadn't done this and missed out on a lifetime of happiness? Shame on me for being scared.

I don't hate him, I don't blame him for most of this. Maybe it's the norm for them, I don't know. What I do know is that I am not an arabic woman, I am American and I won't sit and let my life be destroyed by anyone. So, saving the marriage, I doubt there is any hope for that.

You need to sock him....He is looking at porn,refusing to sleep with you,chatting with other women...it isnt about your dignity or romanticising being the bigger person.These little twits need tough stuff...and if some of us americans dont get fallujah on them....they just target more of us..French women caught on to this 10 years ago and trust me...the french government takes papers away if they leave their wives....so do the germans...We make it too easy....and I am sorry,,Jackie is right...read her post...

I went through this and the only way to come out ok is to do some crazy stuff to save your sanity....this whole be nice ####### perpetuates what these little twits do.He plotted against you and still is..You are just the old hag who was stupid and made his papers...They prey on vulnerable,soft,forgiving women who will let them get away with it.....You need to establish real fast that he divorces you your way,gets the hell out,pays you back for the airline ticket...and go get a man your age or close who digs you...You married a much younger immature and manipulative little #### and Ill be damned if I condone being nice in this case......................................

[*Maureen* 0]

Tammy,

I do not know you personally but I certainly did get choked up reading your post. My heart and prayers are with you. I admire your courage to share your story here. You're a very good woman and I hope you get through this.

[Imua 0]

Tammy sue kay,

Good luck and believe me, I admire you for staying here and telling your story - whatever you do you need to take care of yourself and find other dreams to pursue that don't involve HIM... I am in what most here would probably consider a 'high risk' relationship(quick marriage, big age difference, me older) and yes there have been some 'red flags' from the list posted earlier, most of which can be explained by cultural and economic differences, but still I am keeping my eyes open and thinking 'Plan B' in the back of my mind(I may just go and join the Peace Corps like I've always talked about), have something to look forward to so your life isn't devastated by losing him - that doesn't mean I do not love my husband and do not want to give our marriage a chance, you just never know what will happen in life. Since like Wahrania my husband will be coming on a CR-1 I may wait to remove conditions until he has been here a few months, if possible - haven't gotten to that point so haven't really researched it yet.

There was a huge thread on the Sub-Saharan forum about sending money - it was a huge issue for me at first too. You can't expect a guy from a 3rd or 2nd world country to be like a typical First World 'knight in shining armor' - any princess fantasies(and yes even I have some) need to be tossed out the door. This is especially true if your guy is in his twenties and maybe doesn't have much experience with women. In a lot of ways I am happy my husband is like this - if he were a slick 'playah' who knew all the right words to say and gave me flowers all the time, etc. I would probably be more suspicious - this describes a lot of men(NOT ALL) who are in the tourist industry, like my ex. I have learned to look at my husband's intentions and realize what he is dealing with, economically and culturally. In many cultures dating is not the norm and 'romance' and 'chivalry' are mostly unknown, so now I don't think the lack of these things as we understand them doesn't mean his intentions are not real. A lot of times guys need to learn these things from you, just like we need to learn to respect why cricket and football are so important to them. It is a struggle for me to always remember to be gentle with him but not to be a doormat.

I know that he will want to send money home and I am hoping that will not be a big issue for us - only time will tell.

[Nasturtium 500]

Tammy, I'm glad you see it that way-- it's a much healthier outlook. Anyway, you know my position on this which is to stop his papers since you're legally and financially responsible now for a man you are divircing even after your divorce. it's not about vengence, it's about protecting your family. How is it fair if on his W4s he decides to put he is supporting 6 people and then when he leaves you're stuck with a 10k bill from the IRS for a man you divroced even before he started working? Just think about your children first and yourself second and let him be. if you don't have a marriage and continue letting him get papers off of you, you're actually commiting fraud-- which is something you don't want to be dragged into either (or your family.) So no, it's not always about being cold or revenge or vengence, it's about doing what is legal and doing what is moral for your family There's nothing bad about that.