How much do you really know about your MENA man?

[aya*abouelnasr 0]

Wahrania, as much as I appreciate you being my champion in all of this, this bashing of one another has to stop. Most people have spoken out with support of me, some question my motives, some want to know the rest of the story. But,the bashing, the name calling, the vindictiveness, has got to stop. PLEASE!!!

Yes, there is another side of this story, in fact, there are two sides. His, and my sons. I can't tell you his, but I can tell you at least part of my sons side. He is good to them, he is good with them. They don't have a lot to do with their real father, so this is all a new experience for them, and so far, it has been a good one. They don't see us fight, we don't fight. They don't know, or realize that us not sleeping together is an issue, they have never seen me in this type of relationship before. My husband has never lifted a hand to any of them to strike them in anger or retaliation, and believe me, my sons are a handful. Instead he talks to them and tries to teach them the responsibilities of their actions lie within themselves. My sons have thrived on this attention, have gained from having a "father" in the house that pays attention to them. He is good to them and for that I am extremely thankful.

Never once has he lifted a hand in anger towards me, I have never felt physically threatened by him. There have been times that our arguments have been so heated and things have been said by me that even I was shocked to hear, and never once has he threatened me.

Once, he pointed out to me that I always talk about his "bad", but never see my own. The night we had our "talk" I asked him to elaborate on this for me. The only thing he told me was that I was very quick to become angry, and that when I was angry I don't listen. It's true, that is me in a nutshell.

When I look back on the last few months since my husband arrived here, I see so many negative things that have happened that could have affected him adversely. Not only is he seperated from his family, but I have lost my mother. That sunk me into a deep dark depression and an emotional breakdown. I cannot begin to imagine how that may have affected him, but when I think of how I would feel were the situation reversed, I can see how scared he must have felt. To be in a new country without a job, without friends or family and watching your spouse spiral downwards, having to hold everything together....Looking back, I realized that this was when the troubles started. Making love to a crazy person doesn't sound appealing to me either. I guess there is the possibiltiy he is holding onto his money in case there is a repeat of my depression and he has to support the boys on that money. He could have so easily ran when all this was happening to me, but he didn't. He was my strength then, he helped me out of that dark place, talked to me, showed me how much I had to live for, held me when I cried for hours at a time, kept the boys on the straight and narrow.

When we had our "talk" the other night, I think we covered all the bases of what has been happening. I brought up our age difference of almost 20 years. He said, "Tammy, the Prophet Mohammad married a woman older than he, if it was good enough for Mohammad, then why should we question it. I married you for your heart, not for your age".

Now, the message I wanted to get across, but seems lost in the quagmire, was simply this. Try to know them as much as you possibly can before you marry, go thru the visa process, and bring them here. Don't be afraid to ask questions, learn from them what you want and need to know. Don't wait to find out that after over a year or longer, you are still basically strangers who are married to each other. Make sure you are strong enough to accept what might happen, make sure he is what you really, trully want. Getting the visa is a game we play with the government, to a point. Don't win the game and lose the prize.

And, to make another point. Even though my husbands intentions have not been made clear yet, he is still my husband. It hurts me to see him called names that I would never use towards another womans husband. He is my husband and the only father my sons have ever known, please don't reduce that to something other than what it is. Maybe some won't understand how I can still make this statement, but that is neither here nor there. I hope most can understand.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

-scrolling-

I saw somewhere someone called Wahrania a troll. nahhhhh. She's not a troll. She's just Wahrania, doing her thing like she always does. Though I think since she got pregnant she's been typing enough for two.

No let her think I am a troll...its funny as hell

[~Jackie~ 30]

I can attest to her not being a man.......when I was on the floor in tears, this woman called me and stayed on the phone with me for 2 hours to calm me and give me advice (yea shes a crazy one sometimes, but not a troll)

So she is not politically correct always and a bit abrasive at times. She is not the popular opinion, obviously. She is who she is. Hey, I get abrasive and blunt too about my ex,,,being crude is sometimes my defense mechanisim from the pain, which I and probably Wahrania still suffer from.

For immig info, I know where to find the answers. VJ has cool tabs up top

For friendship, REAL friends that call my phone to visit, well, VJ has those too. I stay.

jJ

[~Jackie~ 30]

nooooooooooooooooo doods! Lexapro kills the sex drive worse than depression!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

try cinnamon....nuts...........fish............chocolate......but NOT lexapro! lol (and those aphrodisiacs, not all together silly, one at a time )

jJ

edited to add: Only the original poster can stop the madness of this thread by asking the door be closed on it. I can see this one going on for a month like this.

also....the typing for two.....is by far the most memorable thing I have read in this thread.

Edited March 18, 2008 by just_Jackie

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania, as much as I appreciate you being my champion in all of this, this bashing of one another has to stop. Most people have spoken out with support of me, some question my motives, some want to know the rest of the story. But,the bashing, the name calling, the vindictiveness, has got to stop. PLEASE!!!

Yes, there is another side of this story, in fact, there are two sides. His, and my sons. I can't tell you his, but I can tell you at least part of my sons side. He is good to them, he is good with them. They don't have a lot to do with their real father, so this is all a new experience for them, and so far, it has been a good one. They don't see us fight, we don't fight. They don't know, or realize that us not sleeping together is an issue, they have never seen me in this type of relationship before. My husband has never lifted a hand to any of them to strike them in anger or retaliation, and believe me, my sons are a handful. Instead he talks to them and tries to teach them the responsibilities of their actions lie within themselves. My sons have thrived on this attention, have gained from having a "father" in the house that pays attention to them. He is good to them and for that I am extremely thankful.

Never once has he lifted a hand in anger towards me, I have never felt physically threatened by him. There have been times that our arguments have been so heated and things have been said by me that even I was shocked to hear, and never once has he threatened me.

Once, he pointed out to me that I always talk about his "bad", but never see my own. The night we had our "talk" I asked him to elaborate on this for me. The only thing he told me was that I was very quick to become angry, and that when I was angry I don't listen. It's true, that is me in a nutshell.

When I look back on the last few months since my husband arrived here, I see so many negative things that have happened that could have affected him adversely. Not only is he seperated from his family, but I have lost my mother. That sunk me into a deep dark depression and an emotional breakdown. I cannot begin to imagine how that may have affected him, but when I think of how I would feel were the situation reversed, I can see how scared he must have felt. To be in a new country without a job, without friends or family and watching your spouse spiral downwards, having to hold everything together....Looking back, I realized that this was when the troubles started. Making love to a crazy person doesn't sound appealing to me either. I guess there is the possibiltiy he is holding onto his money in case there is a repeat of my depression and he has to support the boys on that money. He could have so easily ran when all this was happening to me, but he didn't. He was my strength then, he helped me out of that dark place, talked to me, showed me how much I had to live for, held me when I cried for hours at a time, kept the boys on the straight and narrow.

When we had our "talk" the other night, I think we covered all the bases of what has been happening. I brought up our age difference of almost 20 years. He said, "Tammy, the Prophet Mohammad married a woman older than he, if it was good enough for Mohammad, then why should we question it. I married you for your heart, not for your age".

Now, the message I wanted to get across, but seems lost in the quagmire, was simply this. Try to know them as much as you possibly can before you marry, go thru the visa process, and bring them here. Don't be afraid to ask questions, learn from them what you want and need to know. Don't wait to find out that after over a year or longer, you are still basically strangers who are married to each other. Make sure you are strong enough to accept what might happen, make sure he is what you really, trully want. Getting the visa is a game we play with the government, to a point. Don't win the game and lose the prize.

And, to make another point. Even though my husbands intentions have not been made clear yet, he is still my husband. It hurts me to see him called names that I would never use towards another womans husband. He is my husband and the only father my sons have ever known, please don't reduce that to something other than what it is. Maybe some won't understand how I can still make this statement, but that is neither here nor there. I hope most can understand.

That makes it more tragic .He is the only father these kids have known...Please Tammy for their sake,end this and find a "father" for them,someone who maybe has kids and loves you.He may not be younger and gorgeous,he may be some local guy..but for the love of god....dont let those kids see this..They had no daddy...I know its been hard....but you deserve a man who sleeps with you,who loves and adores you ...I want to cry for so many reasons...Because they need so much love and stability and this kid though he was getting over on a vulnerable older woman....he wasnt counting on your mom dying...he wasnt counting on filling a lifetime worth of shoes..Please end this Tammy...its going to end up tragically and I am so sorry for those boys....they needed so much love....

this is really devastating...please Tammy.....tell your family what he is doing exactly...I am so so so sorry

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I frankly don't give a damn what she did for any particular individual, she's doing nothing but showing her a$$ here, and I don't mind saying so. It's been a theory that those who are favorable toward a person because of some personal relationship have a difficult time standing up to them when they are insulting and rude to others on the boards, and we are seeing examples of this here.

Now, even Tammy has asked her to stop calling her man names and sniping at everyone. At least, even if you like wahrania, honor her wishes on this thread and not give her encouragement to continue to transfer her own personal issues onto Tammy's situation. Balance and objectivity is essential.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It is about her, but you have been making it about you and your insecurities and prejudices. I don't care to follow your example. so sue me.

Exactly. wahrania, you've been going on on Moroccan men for 14 pages now, and tammy's husband's Jordanian. This suggests that it isn't really about your concern or deep insight into tammy's situation.

And you keep going on about how everyone else is in a relationship that needs tests, or they're too old for their husbands.... why does none of this apply to you? Either you failed to notice that tammy's husband is from Jordan, and the Morocco stuff is irrelevant based on your bizarre ethnic calculus, or that you think that information about young Moroccan men applies to everyone... except you.

Both of you got it pegged

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I feel that endless "advice" about "MENA men" from someone who has had repeated failures in that area isn't something I'd really take too seriously.

Unless perhaps as an example of "what not to do."

[Caladan 19]

It is about her, but you have been making it about you and your insecurities and prejudices. I don't care to follow your example. so sue me.

Exactly. wahrania, you've been going on on Moroccan men for 14 pages now, and tammy's husband's Jordanian. This suggests that it isn't really about your concern or deep insight into tammy's situation.

And you keep going on about how everyone else is in a relationship that needs tests, or they're too old for their husbands.... why does none of this apply to you? Either you failed to notice that tammy's husband is from Jordan, and the Morocco stuff is irrelevant based on your bizarre ethnic calculus, or that you think that information about young Moroccan men applies to everyone... except you.

You have spent more time on this thread attacking me than addressing the issue at hand...If she was your friend and had kids in her house,would you encourage her to continue exposing them to this #######..Jordanian,chinese..lithuanian...the guys a little ####### and shes going to end up hurting those kids and herself...She doesnt need a test...she needs to wake up and send his #### home

I addressed the issue at hand and you've gone on for pages about Moroccans. Give it a rest. This isn't about you.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

It is about her, but you have been making it about you and your insecurities and prejudices. I don't care to follow your example. so sue me.

Exactly. wahrania, you've been going on on Moroccan men for 14 pages now, and tammy's husband's Jordanian. This suggests that it isn't really about your concern or deep insight into tammy's situation.

And you keep going on about how everyone else is in a relationship that needs tests, or they're too old for their husbands.... why does none of this apply to you? Either you failed to notice that tammy's husband is from Jordan, and the Morocco stuff is irrelevant based on your bizarre ethnic calculus, or that you think that information about young Moroccan men applies to everyone... except you.

Both of you got it pegged

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I feel that endless "advice" about "MENA men" from someone who has had repeated failures in that area isn't something I'd really take too seriously.

Unless perhaps as an example of "what not to do."

this isnt as much about mena as it is making sure kids dont get the butt end of what these guys do to get their papers.....This is extremely tragic for these boys....they had no daddy...and I am so sad,,,this is more than vj boards..She needs to really talk to people about what this adventure will do to them...its not about her...NONE OF YOU SEEM TO REGISTER THIS

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

.

Exactly. wahrania, you've been going on on Moroccan men for 14 pages now, and tammy's husband's Jordanian. This suggests that it isn't really about your concern or deep insight into tammy's situation.

And you keep going on about how everyone else is in a relationship that needs tests, or they're too old for their husbands.... why does none of this apply to you? Either you failed to notice that tammy's husband is from Jordan, and the Morocco stuff is irrelevant based on your bizarre ethnic calculus, or that you think that information about young Moroccan men applies to everyone... except you.

You have spent more time on this thread attacking me than addressing the issue at hand...If she was your friend and had kids in her house,would you encourage her to continue exposing them to this #######..Jordanian,chinese..lithuanian...the guys a little ####### and shes going to end up hurting those kids and herself...She doesnt need a test...she needs to wake up and send his #### home

No it emphasizes that when we bring someone here or fall in love withsomeone foreign or domestic we have to think real hard about what we are exposing our children to.This is the saddest thing Ihave seen on one year in vj....those kids never had a dad and some 20 year younger kid with no good intentions is filling those very tall orders...attack me all you want...if you really are her real friend...you would not perpetuate this garbage

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Enough, wahrania. It's old already.

[SaadBell 0]

Ladies,

Wahrania is watching out for her friends, period, she is passionate and truth be known, green card fraud is rampant, and not just in the Arab world. She sees a fellow sister hurt and broken and her like a mother bird flies down and defends this woman. I have not always gotten along with Wahrania, and we two have had our troubles, but I have to stand behind her, why, because I feel she is doing this out of love. I think people are looking at this in a different light, thinking she is bashing just Arab men, I don’t see that at all, I see her exposing men and believe me, not just Arab men to the fact that sometimes they LIE, to get what they want. I know if I see some innocent person getting used; it sets something deep inside me crazy. Scams are worldwide, Nigeria is one of the countries that are huge in fraud, and they have taken billions from the western world. That said, if I had a friend talking to a Nigerian man, I certainly would keep my eyes open. Same with a man in America who might be straight out of prison, you have to be careful with anyone. It is common sense to beware, and know the true facts. I think keeping positive is wonderful, but to close your eyes to the pain and anguish that some of these men do is not healthy. Do I think Tammi’s husband is doing this just because he is Arab, not at all; men all over the world do this kind of stuff. The fact that it is reported to be a problem should make us all aware, and keep our eyes open. I am only second generation American, and I know we have some friends of the family that would do almost anything for a green card. Maybe Tammi’s husband is just scared and confused he will be a father soon, and this sometimes can scare the ####### out of men. He is away from his country for the first time, and that for some people can really take a toll. Give him a break, I know how it feels to be depressed. Tammi was very depressed also, so those things can effect marriages, but they can be fixed, and time is the best healer in the world. Time will tell, and all anyone can do is be supportive. I don’t know much about Islam, and truthfully I see that it causes fights, which is more faithful, who knows more about it. For a religion of peace, not much peace is coming through. One reason I am not big on organized religion and that means all religions, not just Islam. So many wars and death have been waged over religion; my way is the only way. I am Latino, and grew up with the culture, but I know there are people outside my culture that are more knowable than me on my own culture. Just because you are born into a certain culture does not make anyone an instant expert. Do I know Latino men better than a woman who is not Latino? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Of course not, that is plain silly, why, because just like Arab men, Latino men are all different period. Do some of the men in my culture marry for green cards, you better believe it. Does it mean all of them do it, of course not. You think a Latino man will open up to me because I am Puerto Rican, not in a million years. Just like Arab men, Latino men come from different countries and which are similar, there are differences. Cubans’ are not just like Puerto Ricans, as Mexicans are not just like people living in Spain. Even our language differs, not all Latinos are eating tacos, and doing the piñata. Why can’t we just have an open and free talk about the con’s of marrying any foreigner? Just because some of my people use others for green cards are just plain bad, doesn’t mean I don’t respect my culture, it just means keep your eyes open.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Please end this Tammy...its going to end up tragically and I am so sorry for those boys....they needed so much love....

this is really devastating...please Tammy.....tell your family what he is doing exactly...I am so so so sorry

these are not words from a true friend, a friend will be there to listen and hope the best for the friend in need but not be the one to make the judgement call to end everything. She says they talked be happy for them and hope for the best for everyone, we are not in their house we dont know both sides, they are adult, he could be from any location, its their business everyone needs to let it go and wish them well. Im sure we have all known both good and bad situations with our men but in the end it has to be them to work thru all of this not us.

This mentality to kick someone to the curb instead of addressing the issues is bad some of us may not even be here today if our parents had done this, people have issues, newly married, heck even those married 50 years will have issues. Add in the fact of being from another location weather morocco, egypt, china or canada things will be different but we knew this going into it. Tammy i feel u have a handle on your situation and i feel you will make the right decision for your family, best wishes. Also to some GEG may come across strong but i have found her to be my best friend and i have found her there for me many times

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What is the point of any of this vitriol? It makes you feel better to see others slammed and smeared? Well, not everyone does. No excuse for what she is doing; passion does not excuse it.

[RAKASA 0]

When will this madness stop? Tammy, herself, has already asked nicely and it continues on. It doesn't matter who agrees w/ who on what is right for Tammy's situation (or anyone's for that matter). Bottom line is, IT'S TAMMY'S LIFE, and she will do what she feels is best, regardless of who agrees or not. There have been many scenarios described in this forum that I may think are the most foolish decisions anyone ever made - they ARE NOT MY DECISIONS TO MAKE AND NOT MY LIFE TO LIVE. Let it be, people. Tammy shared what's going on in her life. Not once has she asked anyone here "What should I do?".

some of this banter is getting downright ugly and has been a clear violation of TOS. Why it continues is beyond me.

Tammy, I wish you the best of luck in however you choose to proceed and I hope that there is light at the end of this tunnel for you soon.