How much do you really know about your MENA man?

[caybee 21]

Just a thought, since the sex thing appears in almost every post in this thread... There is a high incidence of depression in new immigrants. Depression can knock a person's sex drive right out, regardless of their age or ethnicity, and some men (and women) have a lot of trouble discussing this issue with their partner. Looking at porn may not indicate a healthy sex drive but may instead indicate an attempt to fix one. A person can't feel like they've disappointed a computer screen. We don't know both sides. We do know Tammy is very unhappy with the way things are now and that she takes her marriage vows very seriously. And holding back money and affection and the other things she's mentioned are serious and need to be addressed, but they aren't necessarily symptoms of visa fraud. Most could be symptoms of depression -- not saying they are, or that it's acceptable behavior if they are, just saying they could be. Unless he is violent or putting Tammy and her kids in an unsafe situation (I'm drawing a distinction between financially stressed and unsafe), I am personally reluctant to advise Tammy to bail out unless and until she decides that's the best decision for her. She's the only one who can really decide how much is acceptable. He needs to do some serious work here, but some couples do manage to work through very dark times together, when both are willing, and this seems to be what Tammy is hoping for. This is not to attack anyone else's opinions. I'm only sharing my own. Tammy, I do hope you find some peace, whatever road you choose.

[~~~water~~~ 0]

tammy that sucks. Its so hard to work so hard for something only to have your dreams smashed. Hes the only ones who knows his true intenetions but you don't owe him anything and he is not being a husband to you. Try to stop the AOS if you can and send him on his way if he has no where to go send him home....... Im sorry for the pain and thanks for having the strength to post..... Lots of love

water

[a1angied 0]

Tammy Sue Kay,

I am very sorry that things are not going very good for you and your marriage. I will pray that God's will be done and that is all I can do excpet be here for you if you just need someone to talk to or listen to you.

[Martiniolive 0]

I don't know any man who has left a relationship that he felt loved, respected, desired etc.....

It is hard for a man to feel good about himself when he is in such a situation that this process puts him into, no job or a bad job, out of his element new everything etc..... If you combine that and the feelings that his spouse disapproves or isnt happy you will have a crisis. Thing is it's sooooooo easy to have this type of breakdown in our situations here! It is almost the PERFECT setting for a failure when you look at all the possible things to set this dynamic in motion. It is HARD work making it work and a huge test of not only love but of commitment when the loveing feeling gets buried by possible resentments along the way! I know that I have my work cut out for me when my husband and I are together I don't even own rose colored glasses so I'll be using my mirror alot LOL.....seriously...when it comes to letting someone close enough to love them, it is sooo hard not to feel somewhat insecure at times and think they are up to "no good" I have known some couples (here in the US) that have been thru alot of stuff and stayed together thru it all! I mean stuff that seems impossible to tollerate.... If asked how they got thru it and stayed together they'll say it's because they NEVER....even mention the words divorce/breaking up no matter what happens. They promised each other NEVER to go there as a solution. They have always been able to find/resolve a problem without ending "them".

Relationships are a journey in personal growth that is certain! I love it and hate it both

[Nutty 2]

I am sorry your situation turned out to be so disappointing.

I KNOW my husband. I lived overseas when I met my husband. I married my husband and moved to Iran to live with my husband. He has provided for me and taken care of me financially and emotionally.

So, there are no issues of "not knowing who I married." Only the issue of "not knowing how terrible the immigration process would be."

[Nutty 2]

No real red flags before the marriage....

But you mentioned, "I was not blind to the fact that he was paying extra attention to me because he had an objective."

What was the objective??? To prove his love...or to win you over?

I think you should withdraw the your support from his visa...

Okay. First let me thank everyone for all their input. Some of it has been very interesting indeed.

Yes, we did discuss his wanting to send money home to his family beforehand. I had no problem with it at all. I would do the same if the positions were reversed and my family needed help financially. I would be greatly offended if his answer was, no. I have a full time job, make decent money, and at the time was mostly debt free. Supporting him was never an issue with me, I knew that when he got here I would be the sole supporter of the family.for the first few months. To me this wasn't a problem as really, how much can one more person cost to support? He has no medical problems, no financial obligations to speak of. I made it clear to him that until he had his work permit there was no way we could send money to his family and he said he understood.

I knew him for about six months online before we even discussed my visiting him there. He offered to buy my ticket, I refused. Guess I didn't want to feel obligated to do anything I wasn't ready for when I did visit him. He did pay for the apartment we had when I was there, and for most of everything we ate and did also. Of course there were times I paid, but it was because I wanted to, not because I felt I had to. While I was there he was charming, loving, attentive, and of course I knew I was being courted. I was not blind to the fact that he was paying extra attention to me because he had an objective. It's the same in all courtships, no matter where the man is from.

Funny thing is, he was nothing like my ex husband, or my son's father, or any other man I had ever been attracted to or involved with. He seemed so much more mature than me, even though he is younger, conducted himself appropriately, treated his family and friends with respect. When he asked me if I would marry him, I thought, yeah, I could do this for the rest of my life.

I can't really think of any blaring red signs. We argued sometimes, who doesn't? There were some days when he wouldn't come online, but there were days I didn't go online either. He never asked me for money, never seemed to expect anything from me except to love him. I did pay for most of the immigration fees and his plane ticket, but how many of us do that? I think more than not. Except for a few gifts I sent to his family on my own decision, that was about it.

Everything seemed to happen after he got here. Porn on my computer, women's yahoo profiles, myspace women, e mail accounts in other screen names, just to mention a few.

As far as saving the marriage? I don't know about that. It seems that so many things have been said by both of us that there is no way that could be possible now. I wish I could say differently.

I am not really bitter, that is the funny part. I knew the risk I was taking, I went into this with my eyes wide open to what could happen, and I wanted to take the risk. To do it and know, is far better than not ever taking the risk and wondering my whole life what could have been. What if I hadn't done this and missed out on a lifetime of happiness? Shame on me for being scared.

I don't hate him, I don't blame him for most of this. Maybe it's the norm for them, I don't know. What I do know is that I am not an arabic woman, I am American and I won't sit and let my life be destroyed by anyone. So, saving the marriage, I doubt there is any hope for that.

[sarahaziz 0]

what 20 something guy has a low sex drive?

You know what it's going to be inappropriate to post but I don't personally know anyone here so i won't be so shy. I want to say to Tammy and all women here in bad experiences cuz i realy don't want her to divorce that whenever my husbands mad or I did something to piss him off , fight, he withholds HMMHMMHMM from me. That's how american women get back at men in that thing right??? He does that to me. He won't give me anything if he's mad he even brought a couch in the room for whever we fight so he can go there and i can baby him to come back with me. He is sooo shy to initiate hmmhmm hmm with me he's like a little stubborn kid who wants me to give everything to him without him asking. With that very personal information given to all the women on the board lol Maybe THAT could be a reason ??? I hate divorce I hope it's forbidden in everyones morals here on this board. Divorce with a couple who hasnt physically cheated is another sentence for we don't appreciate ecah other enough to try again and again until we die.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't know any man who has left a relationship that he felt loved, respected, desired etc.....

It is hard for a man to feel good about himself when he is in such a situation that this process puts him into, no job or a bad job, out of his element new everything etc..... If you combine that and the feelings that his spouse disapproves or isnt happy you will have a crisis. Thing is it's sooooooo easy to have this type of breakdown in our situations here! It is almost the PERFECT setting for a failure when you look at all the possible things to set this dynamic in motion. It is HARD work making it work and a huge test of not only love but of commitment when the loveing feeling gets buried by possible resentments along the way! I know that I have my work cut out for me when my husband and I are together I don't even own rose colored glasses so I'll be using my mirror alot LOL.....seriously...when it comes to letting someone close enough to love them, it is sooo hard not to feel somewhat insecure at times and think they are up to "no good" I have known some couples (here in the US) that have been thru alot of stuff and stayed together thru it all! I mean stuff that seems impossible to tollerate.... If asked how they got thru it and stayed together they'll say it's because they NEVER....even mention the words divorce/breaking up no matter what happens. They promised each other NEVER to go there as a solution. They have always been able to find/resolve a problem without ending "them".

Relationships are a journey in personal growth that is certain! I love it and hate it both

Well.. I know women who have respected their husbands, desired their husbands and the whole boat, but if he entered into the relationship with an end date in mind ( the usual end date is after they get their citizenship because its faster to get if you are still married) it doesnt matter if you bring him pancakes in bed and comb his hair and do manicures for him. What really gets my goat is how remorseless some of these men are about what they have done. The reality is that if a woman really loves a man and she is tossed aside after he gets papers or discovers thats all she really was, it tears at her very feminity. Often the first people to warn you ,especially if you have foreign friends,are the foreigners themselves... They themselves seem to sense things when a relationship is very far off center age wise or custom wise... or the woman cannot have kids and thats a central part of many mena peoples culture. I have seen alot of these relationships reach the end right around the time the guy naturalises..not at the time of the greencard. Its when they naturalise that you see the biggest change. They can bring a girl from back home, they can travel with absolutely no restrictions all over the world.. with a greencard, they can lose it if they stay away more than 6 months. A US citizenship enables them to sponsor a fiancee or a wife.. it gives them a green light to their true motives...

This is not saying that all marriages will end... on the contrary.. I have seen some make it all the way through with kids a house a cat and the whole caboodle. I have seen American women go back home with them and stay.. I have seen all kinds of things.. But I have also seen an older american woman near suicide back in 2003 when her Moroccan husband decided to jet (he had an IR1) cause it took her so long to get him here. She was 50 and a recent widow and spent all her money on him.. By the way as of 2005 she was going back over to marry another a moroccan man. I know another American woman who has sponsored 3 different Moroccan men and they all have left her. I know another American woman whose husband battered her, cheated on her in her face, took all her paychecks and then her son. She is now back home living with her parents and barely sees her son who is now on haldol is schitzed out and wacko from what his dad did to his mom. I know another woman married to a Tunisian who blamed her teenaged son for the break up and he commited suicide last year at 15 over the break up. I think I mentioned a girl who I knew before she married someone from south tunisia who convinced her to take her kids to tunisia.. She cannot get them out now.. I know 3 girls forced into abortions by their mena husbands before they aosd promising they would let them have kids... and boom.. they never got the chance...

Go ahead and ask me why I have no patience for this #######... its because I am friends with all the women I have mentioned the one with the 2 little kids trapped in Tunisia is a tragic tragic figure cause she trusted that #######.. The one with the sick kid had her arm broken at 25 and was forced to endure daily beatings...

All these guys got papers.... and worse.. none of them is paying the price for what they have done... The one with the little kids in Tunisia is so mentally broken down at this point... she cant see straight....

None of this is pleasant to read but reality rears its ugly head when I see the ####### that Tammy is enduring. Its not fair.. its not acceptible and its politically incorrect to discuss it... but its happening.. Now if your relationship is perfect thats cool......but the important things is that you don't sit back and let someone be victimised for the sake of preserving their feelings... The one with the little kids ignored what everyone has told her and trusted her husband.. Now her little girl doesnt know what she looks like anymore... If you live in a community with alot of immigrants and you frequent the masjids and are friends with the wives of some of these guys that have adjusted status from illegal to legal with an american greencard marriage, this stuff is pretty frequent.. it s so common place that you just sit and cannot do a damn thing because in your heart you know she loves the guy and you watch him out with his friends partying and laughing about how stupid she is.. This is not every marriage.. Many are fine.. But to ignore the prevelence of these occurances is just irresponsible... I am sorry..... Its reality and its not looked down at because its a way for a guy to better his life... the older the victim... the less people feel sorry for her because in order to victimise someone you have to dehumanise them to begin with.. Kind of like what people do to be able to carry out heinous crimes... I do not think its easy psychologically to do this to another person

The saddest situation is with the one who did 3 moroccan guys papers . The second husband had sex with her 2 teenage daughters and both are messed up beyond belief. She married another guy and never prosecuted the 2nd. He is now married and a citizen and with his moroccan wife that he married on a trip home without telling her... She is heinous and a horrible mother which is why the fact that the kids are not being brought up in all of this yanks my chain....

[sarahaziz 0]

It's 50/50. Some women follow blindly and betray their kids behind to get love with a man and he ends up leaving her. I don't pity those women even tho they are going thru mental illness. I don't think any woman in America who is SANE can NOT see or feel the feelings of being used. This is usually said easier than done. I have no experience in being used or mentally abused by a man and Thank God for that it will never happen to me. The OP came here to warn every woman about this to compare the situation to her own many thanks for that. She's not being stupid she's being real even tho she loves the guy so much she won't leave her kids no matter what. Also younger girls meeting men online and traveling to those countries wow leaving your parents for a man proves he will never respect you bc you didn't respect your parents. On a different hand many men ARE looking for love, but the woman who brings them to America she doesn't respect him. She won't give up her male friends bc "she doesn't have to" that's just so damn disrespectful after marriage your husband is your husband your wife is your wife. Your marriage is not based on multiple other men they won't be there for you when you are dying your HUSBAND will. Why would you disrespect and not honor his requests? Alot of those things make men take the green card and leave. it's ALWAYS 50/50. A woman giving all what a man needs (attractive appearence,sexual,caring,balance,) and a man giving a woman all those things THERE's NEVER dirty motives.

[Jenn! 918]

She won't give up her male friends bc "she doesn't have to" that's just so damn disrespectful after marriage your husband is your husband your wife is your wife. Your marriage is not based on multiple other men they won't be there for you when you are dying your HUSBAND will. Why would you disrespect and not honor his requests?

Hmmm, well I think a better question would be - why would you marry someone who you know has expectations that you find unreasonable and on which you are not willing to give in?

[sarahaziz 0]

She won't give up her male friends bc "she doesn't have to" that's just so damn disrespectful after marriage your husband is your husband your wife is your wife. Your marriage is not based on multiple other men they won't be there for you when you are dying your HUSBAND will. Why would you disrespect and not honor his requests?

Hmmm, well I think a better question would be - why would you marry someone who you know has expectations that you find unreasonable and on which you are not willing to give in?

Thank you, that was a more appropriate way to get my point across.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

It's 50/50. Some women follow blindly and betray their kids behind to get love with a man and he ends up leaving her. I don't pity those women even tho they are going thru mental illness. I don't think any woman in America who is SANE can NOT see or feel the feelings of being used. This is usually said easier than done. I have no experience in being used or mentally abused by a man and Thank God for that it will never happen to me. The OP came here to warn every woman about this to compare the situation to her own many thanks for that. She's not being stupid she's being real even tho she loves the guy so much she won't leave her kids no matter what. Also younger girls meeting men online and traveling to those countries wow leaving your parents for a man proves he will never respect you bc you didn't respect your parents. On a different hand many men ARE looking for love, but the woman who brings them to America she doesn't respect him. She won't give up her male friends bc "she doesn't have to" that's just so damn disrespectful after marriage your husband is your husband your wife is your wife. Your marriage is not based on multiple other men they won't be there for you when you are dying your HUSBAND will. Why would you disrespect and not honor his requests? Alot of those things make men take the green card and leave. it's ALWAYS 50/50. A woman giving all what a man needs (attractive appearence,sexual,caring,balance,) and a man giving a woman all those things THERE's NEVER dirty motives.

Oh come on Sara....just come on.. you are really too young to know all the ins and outs of marriage. You have never given birth or dealt with the ups and downs to be running your mouth like that.. The women in America often do more than any arab woman would do including bankrolling all the fees and the trips...while alot of arab women want huge gold dowries and huge weddings.. To imply its these women's fault is bullshit girly

[Martiniolive 0]

everyone has knowledge of what is "important" to them. For some men a women being a good homemaker/ mother might be most important and if he has meager means...her willingness to live with him unser the conditions he can supply might mean all the love in the world to him. I think sometimes a woman/man might believe they are "owed" alot of love and commitent because they have financially footed the bills, but if "footing the bills" does not mean the same degree of "I love you" to the other spouse/person....it won't keep them there if other things are missing.....or somethging like that...LOL

[Y's_habibitk 2]

I AM READY TO TALK TO TAMMY HUSBAND IF SHE GAVE ME A PHONE NOMBER,,,, AND FOR EVERY1 I DID THAT TO WAHRANIA CUZ SHE STARTED TALKING ABOUT MOSQUES,,, AND I DONT SAY I AM WITH THAT GUY CUZ HE IS FROM MY COUNTRY!!! HE DID WRONG!! AND IF HE DIDNT LIKE USA THEN COME BACK TO UR FAMILY YA MAN!!! DONT WASTE THE WOMAN'S TIME AND UR TIME TOO... AND ITS BAD CHOICE TO SPEND ALL THAT TIME WAITING FOR PAPERS AND STUFF THEN DISAPPOINT UR WIFE AFTER ALL OF THAT!!

I AM READY TO TALK TO TAMMY HUSBAND IF SHE GAVE ME A PHONE NOMBER,,,, AND FOR EVERY1 I DID THAT TO WAHRANIA CUZ SHE STARTED TALKING ABOUT MOSQUES,,, AND I DONT SAY I AM WITH THAT GUY CUZ HE IS FROM MY COUNTRY!!! HE DID WRONG!! AND IF HE DIDNT LIKE USA THEN COME BACK TO UR FAMILY YA MAN!!! DONT WASTE THE WOMAN'S TIME AND UR TIME TOO... AND ITS BAD CHOICE TO SPEND ALL THAT TIME WAITING FOR PAPERS AND STUFF THEN DISAPPOINT UR WIFE AFTER ALL OF THAT!!

Its not about mosques....Its not about coffee shops..and it isnt about islam...

In your first post "he's probably met other arabs coaching him at the mosque.........................."

????

[doodlebugg 10]

Just a thought, since the sex thing appears in almost every post in this thread... There is a high incidence of depression in new immigrants. Depression can knock a person's sex drive right out, regardless of their age or ethnicity, and some men (and women) have a lot of trouble discussing this issue with their partner.

Note to self: stock up on lexapro PRONTO!!!!