Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

[HAL 9000 96]

I thought Obama got to Chicago as an adult already. Besides, there are children with far better judgement than many adults I know.

[SpiritAlight 1]

I thought Obama got to Chicago as an adult already. Besides, there are children with far better judgement than many adults I know.

Agreed only because children do not judge exactly; they sense (feel).

And that instinct is in all of us as adults too.

Most people just choose to "park it"...unfortunately.

Imagine being so real that you could speak your mind at all times?

i.e. Your haircut is yucky.

Hey you put on a lot of weight!

I need you to cuddle me right now.

Edited March 14, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well sure - but what is BO supposed to do?

You can only say "I don't agree with this" so many times.

What people seem to be doing here is trying to make the case that BO is some sort of extremist religious nut, because he goes to a church and is friends with a pastor who says controversial things in a heated way that he must somehow agree with everything the man says.

Simple fairness would suggest some benefit of the doubt. Surely.

Since O grew up listening to him & attending his church - some of his rhetoric *may* have rubbed off on his congregants, no?

Something to think about.

*May* indeed - but trying to get inside someone's head through their friends and relatives - and in particular the views of one such person is a tad unfair don't you think? Simply - Its the politics of innuendo. Again.

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

[SpiritAlight 1]

Any person living in any country who doesn't know that their past and current government(s) does not-so-nice thingies, should have their head re-examined.

(please forgive my harshness)

There is not a single pure of heart in the bunch.

Edited March 14, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[no name 1]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

[HAL 9000 96]

I'm pretty sure this is not the only thing that this pastor has brought up in his sermons. Giving him the benefit of the doubt over 20 years of attendance there is perhaps more to this story than what we filter ourselves.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

[Caladan 19]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

With respect, that makes about as much sense as saying Hillary condones marital infidelity because she hasn't divorced Bill. Or that the President of Yale speaks for me in all issues because I'm in graduate school.

Actually, it would be more like if I had to denounce an emeritus president no longer formally affiliated with the university, as the pastor in question is retired.

[no name 1]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

Edited March 14, 2008 by illumine

[simple_male 1]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

But still Obama has the lead in popular votes, delegate counts, and the number of states he won and these facts will remain same even after the highly publicized PA primary. Only miracles can prevent Obama from being the Democratic Party nominee.

[SpiritAlight 1]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

With respect, that makes about as much sense as saying Hillary condones marital infidelity because she hasn't divorced Bill. Or that the President of Yale speaks for me in all issues because I'm in graduate school.

Actually, it would be more like if I had to denounce an emeritus president no longer formally affiliated with the university, as the pastor in question is retired.

Agreed.

What do you think the people of the U.S. (and the world) would think/say/do if it got out to more of us doing the research of who the Bush family had been doing business with? Everyone from the Middle Easters* to the Nazis* and beyond.

Conspiracy theories?

Only the ones on some TV/newspaper news and some press conferences.

Ha!

EDIT: to add, please do your homework, and then respond without anger and fear.

*according to some reports found in books and on-line

Edited March 14, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[metta 0]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

I remember when GWb visited Bob Jones University which at that time prohibits inter-racial dating, that caused quite a ruckus. And one could argue that you cannot assign guilt by association on GWB because he was just visiting on a campaign circuit.

But if GWB were a member of the Bob Jones Church or Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church it would be fair to say that GWB subscribes to say Falwell's or Jone's teachings and make a case for guilt by association.

[HAL 9000 96]

I think what it reveals about Obama is that he's above to petty gossip about him because his pastor says things in Chicago.

[no name 1]

A better question would surely be - whether the man himself has given any indication, through what he has said publicly or indeed where he stands on key issues - that he supports extremist views (if indeed the content of the pastor's statements amounts to "extremism").

but he surely he has shown he condones it by choosing to continue to attend that church!

Only if you believe in guilt by association.

He has said he doesn't agree with some of the stuff the pastor has said, characterising his exact relationship with the guy. Is that not enough?

I'd also contend to you that that many churches (especially megachurches) make use of similar oratorical styles on the part of their ministers.

On another point - I'm not overly happy that he's a member of (any) church - but then again, no candidate is going to make broad claims to secularism.

I stand by my above statement. There are plenty of other churches he could attend if he doesn't want it to reflect poorly on him or better yet, if he does in fact, disagree. This guy continually spouts #######, since 2001 as far as we know - I'm sure there's earlier ####### out there but I can't be bothered to look for more of his #######.

It is what it is. I hope it helps reveal more about Obama.

I remember when GWb visited Bob Jones University which at that time prohibits inter-racial dating, that caused quite a ruckus. And one could argue that you cannot assign guilt by association on GWB because he was just visiting on a campaign circuit.

But if GWB were a member of the Bob Jones Church or Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church it would be fair to say that GWB subscribes to say Falwell's or Jone's teachings and make a case for guilt by association.

I'm guessing the above posters perhaps have no idea what belonging to a church/religion means...

[HAL 9000 96]

At least I got my brother in law, as a priest to be, that can vouch for my having an independent mind and a religious conscience.