Angry with these protests

[mercuryroad 0]

This is an illegal-immigrant issue not an immigrant issue.

I WISH THE F#CKING MEDIA WOULD GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is an illegal-immigrant issue not an immigrant issue.

I WISH THE F#CKING MEDIA WOULD GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!

Exactly - as I said before could the debate get any more confused?

[GaryC 7]

Just for kicks

Let's say a guest worker program was passed into law and 10 million illegal immigrants then registered, went home and came back on these guest visas......would everyone be happy then? Would all of this aggression go away?

What if they came back and someone came up with a Spanish verison of the national anthem.....if businesses continued to offer their services in Spanish, if schools continued to offer courses taught in Spanish, if the current population rise in Latinos in this country continued.......would everyone be happy?

If the law was passed today, with no amnesty - meaning the illegal immigrants would have to register, leave the country and come back with these guest worker visas........the overall situation in America would not be that much different than it is today. The work they do would be the same, and wages would still be depressed in those sectors. So, even in this best case scenario, things don't really change that much. Makes me wonder if the issue is a fear of Latinos and their role in the changing America more than anything.

The whole point is that we need to know who is coming in to our country. I have no fear of latinos. They are welcome here as long as they live by the same rules as everyone else. But what I do fear is a terrorist coming in with the flood of illegals and doing great harm to us.

Also, if we had a legal way for them to come in and work then they will pay taxes just like everyone else here does. Why should they and the people that employ them get a free ride when almost half of what I make goes to taxes?

[peejay 327]

I found this website when it was referenced on CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight TV news hour recently. This portion of the website lists arguments against many of the old cliches I see repeated time and time again in these debates about illegal immigration. I found the site interesting, informative, and at times humorous. IMO a lot of it does make good sense.

http://projectusa.org/arguments/index.php

Even though my wife is a foreigner I really do not consider marriage based immigration to be immigration in the traditional sense. It is based on marriage to a citizen or LPR.

I also have noticed the blur between legal and illegal immigration in the media. The United States of America has a sovereign right to regulate and restrict immigration as it sees fit. As does any and every other sovereign nation in the world. The immigrant does not dictate immigration policy for any nation. Which is exactly what these illegals believe they have some sort of right to do. They don't.

Their protests are bogus.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I found this website when it was referenced on CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight TV news hour recently. This portion of the website lists arguments against many of the old cliches I see repeated time and time again in these debates about illegal immigration. I found the site interesting, informative, and at times humorous. IMO a lot of it does make good sense.

http://projectusa.org/arguments/index.php

Even though my wife is a foreigner I really do not consider marriage based immigration to be immigration in the traditional sense. It is based on marriage to a citizen or LPR.

I also have noticed the blur between legal and illegal immigration in the media. The United States of America has a sovereign right to regulate and restrict immigration as it sees fit. As does any and every other sovereign nation in the world. The immigrant does not dictate immigration policy for any nation. Which is exactly what these illegals believe they have some sort of right to do. They don't.

Their protests are bogus.

Quite true. I sooner the focus stays on anti-illegal immigration than being simply anti-immigrant, which seems to be what is happening. If things go on like this, it won't be long before we're all getting tarred with the same brush!

Unfortunately there's a bit of a blur with regards to the illegal debate as well. Back in California I used to work wiith some people who were the children of Mexican nationals who came illegally. Unfortunately the US does have the law that grants automatic citizenship to a child born within the US. To those people, who are legal americans, the prospect of having your parent deported back to mexico is probably more than a little worrying.

As I said before, if we're really serious about changing immigration it will take a much more aggressive (and consequently less popular) government than we currently have.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Fishdude

[choji 0]

Just for kicks

Let's say a guest worker program was passed into law and 10 million illegal immigrants then registered, went home and came back on these guest visas......would everyone be happy then? Would all of this aggression go away?

What if they came back and someone came up with a Spanish verison of the national anthem.....if businesses continued to offer their services in Spanish, if schools continued to offer courses taught in Spanish, if the current population rise in Latinos in this country continued.......would everyone be happy?

If the law was passed today, with no amnesty - meaning the illegal immigrants would have to register, leave the country and come back with these guest worker visas........the overall situation in America would not be that much different than it is today. The work they do would be the same, and wages would still be depressed in those sectors. So, even in this best case scenario, things don't really change that much. Makes me wonder if the issue is a fear of Latinos and their role in the changing America more than anything.

Right. That's it. And it's called xenophobia. A nasty word, nasty mindset.

[Fandango 1,439]

Just for kicks

Let's say a guest worker program was passed into law and 10 million illegal immigrants then registered, went home and came back on these guest visas......would everyone be happy then? Would all of this aggression go away?

What if they came back and someone came up with a Spanish verison of the national anthem.....if businesses continued to offer their services in Spanish, if schools continued to offer courses taught in Spanish, if the current population rise in Latinos in this country continued.......would everyone be happy?

If the law was passed today, with no amnesty - meaning the illegal immigrants would have to register, leave the country and come back with these guest worker visas........the overall situation in America would not be that much different than it is today. The work they do would be the same, and wages would still be depressed in those sectors. So, even in this best case scenario, things don't really change that much. Makes me wonder if the issue is a fear of Latinos and their role in the changing America more than anything.

I think that's a pretty harsh passive aggresive closing statement, Merc. When all else fails, throw around the racism charge, eh?

I think it's natural that the majority of people here might be anti-illegal immigrant. I don't know if that's actually true, but I would assume that. Because (i think) we here resent the feeling of entitlement that these people seem to have, when they are not entitled to anything.

We are jumping thru hoops to follow the law, and they're threatening people. It's not xenophobia...it's extortion.

[raphael7546 0]

This is an illegal-immigrant issue not an immigrant issue.

I WISH THE F#CKING MEDIA WOULD GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!

No Kidding !!! I was in the break room at work today and this chick came in and said, "So, are ya gonna not come to work tomorrow and protest with all the other immigrants??!

I said <

"of Course Not ! I don't believe in what they are doing. and your putting all immigrants into one basket. I paid my dues, I went thu the right channels to get hereI didn't come thru the "backdoor" so to speak so why would I even think of protesting with the "Illegal" immigrants?!

Geez !

[iceyspots 0]

Hmm.. Guest worker program.. What about all those people in these underdevelopped countries that WOULD have came to the U.S. to work, but there was no legal route for them... What if the ONLY reason they didn't come was because they didn't want to break the law... Ahh.. I see.. Let's grant amnesty to the ones who already broke the law, instead of allowing the ones who would have come, but didn't want to break the law.

[Chicken_Little 0]

But let me also remind you, it behooves ALL OF US ON THIS SITE to fight for immigrant rights--because believe it or not, it would more likely speed up the process for us who are legally filing if visas and work permits work EASIER to obtain.

I am all for immigrant rights. The folks that came here illegally, or overstayed their non-immigrant visa and take up employment illegally often stealing someone's idendity to do so are NOT immigrants. Their ####### has NOTHING to do with immigrant rights. Nothing.

It would behoove all of us to keep this straight.

Do you think there should be no legal channel for these people to come live and work here, though?

There should be an assessment of how many workers of varying qualifications are needed in the US. There should be a sufficient number of visa available worldwide to meet the needs of the economy. I do not believe that special treatment ought to be afforded to those that snuck across the land border. They should be given a window of opportunity to leave so they may apply for one of the available visa back home. Give it two years and then crack down seriously on employers and employees still breaking the laws. Those employers caught pay stiff fines (the kind that takes you out of business) and those in charge go to prison. The emloyees are fingerprinted and taken back to the point of entry and released back into the place where they came from with no chance to ever return.

Get the visa out there, give some adjustment time and then get serious and see the issue work itself out.

*Applauds* I totally agree.

[Fandango 1,439]

there are many countries that are much poorer than Mexico. We should allow them all to break the law too.

[Sinergy 3]

This is an illegal-immigrant issue not an immigrant issue.

I WISH THE F#CKING MEDIA WOULD GET IT STRAIGHT!!!!!!!

i second that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and not only the media, but some people as well who are not associated with the media at all.

[PsychoKat 0]

Just for kicks

Let's say a guest worker program was passed into law and 10 million illegal immigrants then registered, went home and came back on these guest visas......would everyone be happy then? Would all of this aggression go away?

What if they came back and someone came up with a Spanish verison of the national anthem.....if businesses continued to offer their services in Spanish, if schools continued to offer courses taught in Spanish, if the current population rise in Latinos in this country continued.......would everyone be happy?

If the law was passed today, with no amnesty - meaning the illegal immigrants would have to register, leave the country and come back with these guest worker visas........the overall situation in America would not be that much different than it is today. The work they do would be the same, and wages would still be depressed in those sectors. So, even in this best case scenario, things don't really change that much. Makes me wonder if the issue is a fear of Latinos and their role in the changing America more than anything.

and most would find themselves out of a job i'm sure, as their employers would have a far higher cost of employing them (unemployment, ss taxes, etc)

This is something that needs to be addressed if we ever intend to take care of illegal immigration. The possible amnesty or guest worker programs are not being presented to show compassion for those who have worked and built lives here. Our government doesn't care about them or what they want, nor does it care about what we want. What our government DOES care about is keeping businesses happy. The 1986 IRCA made it against the law for companies to hire illegal workers and imposed fines and penalties for doing so, but did not put much effort in inforcing these laws, not much good if not enforced unless the only purpose was to keep the public opinion in check.

For all the focus on immigration reform, surely people have noticed that instead of holding companies that intentionally hire illegal immigrants to profit from the combination of cheap labor with little or no accountability (unemployment, workers comp) in violation of the law, our officals are almost portraying them as innocent victims, forced out of desperation to break the law because US Citizens are not willing to work in these jobs, this is the almost the only aspect of immigration that they are talking about, making sure they keep the illegal immigrant issue directly tied to business needs and not really addressing anything else. Neither are they taking into consideration what will happen when these people working illegally are given a legal status to work and the same rights as others enjoy. Those businesses who were hiring illegal workers to avoid the higher cost of US workers will continue to do so, because these guest workers will cause just as much as US workers.

They are doing a great job of convincing people of this too, when people started really speaking out against illegal immigration in recent times one of the biggest issues people were angry about was the idea that these people were taking jobs from American citizens, and by working for low wages, forcing the wages for Americans down so that companies not dependant on illegal labor could remain competitive.

Now more and more of the public is willing to accept a guest worker program, and would be fine just so long as these people were legal while working...bizarre thinking in my book..I tend to think...sheeeep.

It's almost as if, they are only when it's tied to the word illegal...very scary word that is...if they were really concerned about US Citizens losing jobs and forced to accept lowering wages, it wouldn't matter illegal or legal because the jobs would still be unavailable for US Citizens. Imagine if the public stood fast to their job and wage concerns, the government would have an even bigger problem on their hands if people refused to be swayed and looked farther into work related immigration and visa's and US companies outsourcing overseas for cheap labor. You KNOW the public would be outraged and probably insulted to find that companies are citing a need to hire foriegn workers because there are no US citizens with the skills necessary to fill the job. On one end we are being told we need a guest worker program to fill the jobs US Citizens won't do, and on the other side the legal side (where people aren't looking) we're allowing companies to hire foreign workers to fill jobs that supposedly US Citizens aren't skilled enough to do.

A lot of people probably think that based on my previous contributions to these topics I am all for amnisty, but I am not, I'm also not for farming out our own chances at the "American Dream" to keep corporations and their upper echelons happy and rolling in the dough while we give up more and more of our lives and our time with our children and families trying to make ends meet as companies outsource jobs overseas to avoid paying US Citizens wages that keep up with the cost of living or hire illegal immigrants for the same prupose, yet have no problem raising the cost of good and services sold to those very same US Citizens.

What I do believe we should stop allowing our government to sacrifice the welfare of the people to keep businesses happy. I also believe that family immigration needs attention, the general public is completely clueless as to this process, thinking it's no different than what a USC marrying another USC in the US would go though. They have no idea how painful waiting for months sometimes years to be with your loved one can be, how costly and stressful. The have no concept what its like to have control over one of the most important things in your life taken away from you, and subject to the approval..or denial of some faceless, nameless entity, who they've never met, never spoken to, who has no idea who they are and only knows them by some sterile reports. Although the entire country is very focused right now on matters of immigration, they are completely blind to any and all aspects of family immigration and considering how upset people have been about illegal immigrants taking jobs from US citizens and forcing wages down by working cheaper, maybe our government should put the majority of work related immigration off to the side instead of creating more avenues to persue it and focus on families and people for awhile.

[sparkofcreation 0]

Hmm.. Guest worker program.. What about all those people in these underdevelopped countries that WOULD have came to the U.S. to work, but there was no legal route for them... What if the ONLY reason they didn't come was because they didn't want to break the law... Ahh.. I see.. Let's grant amnesty to the ones who already broke the law, instead of allowing the ones who would have come, but didn't want to break the law.

Oh, bulls***! People come illegally to this country from all over the freaking world. The reason most illegal immigrants are Mexican is because it's a poorer country and we share a border. But I've known illegal immigrants from all over the Western Hemisphere,... yes, that includes Canadians here illegally!! And certainly there are illegal immigrants from all over the world here! There was a big sting in my town back in NJ and another one here in NM of people smuggling in illegal immigrants from China.

Know why people from the other side of the Atlantic don't sneak into the US as much as people from this side? Because there's a bloody big ocean in the middle!! That's why there's such a problem with illegal immigration in the UK and Spain and the Netherlands and France!! It's certainly not because "they didn't want to break the law."

The reason that so many people don't come to the US from other countries is because they can't. That's why they go to first-world countries that are closer to their home countries.

Edited May 1, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[minha_raposa 0]

While the illegals are here demanding rights they are not entitled to, and the gov. wants to forgive and forget, my mother in law is not likely to EVER get to come visit her LEGAL daughter because she can't qualify for a tourist visa...as most Brazilians can't. But hell, let's just let anyone who can get over the border in. Whats fair about that?