Obama: "It was because of George Bush with an assist from Hillary Clinton and John McCain that we entered into this war"

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Senator Obama: I was opposed to this war in 2002. If it had been up to me, we would have never been in this war. It was because of George Bush with an assist from Hillary Clinton and John McCain that we entered into this war, a war that should have never been authorized, a war that should have never been waged. I've been against it 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008. And I will bring this war to an end in 2009.

[Peikko 1,575]

This is one of the weakest aspects of Barak. Fine, he was against the war in the beginning and that's great, he saw that this wasn't a good idea and at the same time Clinton and McCain voted to allow it to take place.

However, we are not in the same situation now as we were then, there is no easy fix, there is no possibility of simply withdrawing in 2009 with impunity and if he knew the war was a bad idea then in 2002 he should also know that instant withdrawel is a bad idea now. The US needs an exit strategy that leaves the region stable politically or all those lives that have already been lost will have been lost for no reason whatsoever.

[dalegg 143]

I finally get his position. I always thought that what people were concerned about was what would happen to Iraq and the Iraqi citizens who supported us if the U.S left, but it turns out that people are really concerned about what would happen to our soldiers if we left.

"now what is true is that I want to be as careful getting out, as we were careless getting in, and I want to make sure that our troops are protected and safe as we are withdrawing them..."

Yes, because that has been the problem all along. We were worried that the troops would be attacked as they flew out of Iraq. Uh huh. Or is he concerned that a stray RPG from the celebration picnic might accidentally hit the bus on the way to the airport?

"..and I don't want us to see Iraq collapse which is why I've put out the most detailed plan to make sure that we have humanitarian aid in place.... and that we have an international commission to monitor against war crimes as we are pulling out."

Well, there you go you Iraqi citizens. You've got nothing to worry about when the U.S leaves. The red cross and the UN will be there to protect you!

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I finally get his position. I always thought that what people were concerned about was what would happen to Iraq and the Iraqi citizens who supported us if the U.S left, but it turns out that people are really concerned about what would happen to our soldiers if we left.

"now what is true is that I want to be as careful getting out, as we were careless getting in, and I want to make sure that our troops are protected and safe as we are withdrawing them..."

Yes, because that has been the problem all along. We were worried that the troops would be attacked as they flew out of Iraq. Uh huh. Or is he concerned that a stray RPG from the celebration picnic might accidentally hit the bus on the way to the airport?

"..and I don't want us to see Iraq collapse which is why I've put out the most detailed plan to make sure that we have humanitarian aid in place.... and that we have an international commission to monitor against war crimes as we are pulling out."

Well, there you go you Iraqi citizens. You've got nothing to worry about when the U.S leaves. The red cross and the UN will be there to protect you!

I agree with what you are saying here 100%

The problem I have with Obama is when he did have a chance to vote on important issues in the Illinois legislature he voted "not present." I can't help but wonder if he wouldn't have done the same with the Iraq war if he was there.

[Joe&Ghe 0]

This is one of the weakest aspects of Barak. Fine, he was against the war in the beginning and that's great, he saw that this wasn't a good idea and at the same time Clinton and McCain voted to allow it to take place.

However, we are not in the same situation now as we were then, there is no easy fix, there is no possibility of simply withdrawing in 2009 with impunity and if he knew the war was a bad idea then in 2002 he should also know that instant withdrawel is a bad idea now. The US needs an exit strategy that leaves the region stable politically or all those lives that have already been lost will have been lost for no reason whatsoever.

Seems like you didn't even listen to the debates or read his platforms & plans...HE DIDN't say he will pull the troops INSTANTLY..he said we will go out carefully with a good exit strategy..it's pretty simple anyway..vote Obama or vote McCAin....End the War vs. 100 Years of War...Better Ecomic & foreign policies vs. Militaristic mind with Bush's failed policies..easy choice right? Now if it is Hillary vs. McCain..I'm abstaining this year then..hehe.. that's like Dirty Politician vs. Granpa Bush competing..don't know if I want to put either one in the whitehouse...RON PAUL was the best of all though.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Joe&Ghe

[Peikko 1,575]

He said, "I will bring this war to an end in 2009". How on earth can he know what the situation is going to be like at that point to be absolutely certain that this is even possible? Sorry but that's just stupid. His main focus on this speach is his past objections, that's not relevant now. He doesn't want to play politics my #######!

[kaydee457 13]

The fact is that Barack wasn't in the U.S. Senate at the time and frankly, as with most of this freshman Senator's record, we will never know how he would have voted, for or against.

It's too easy to say at this time, retrospectively, that he was against the war in totality.

Would he have been if he were in the U.S. Senate? Or would this vote be just another "present"?

[Joe&Ghe 0]

He said, "I will bring this war to an end in 2009". How on earth can he know what the situation is going to be like at that point to be absolutely certain that this is even possible? Sorry but that's just stupid. His main focus on this speach is his past objections, that's not relevant now. He doesn't want to play politics my #######!

There you go again..you just take "his words" out of context..if you had read his plans then this would be a much better conversation wouldn't it? 2009 is a projection..

MIlitary Commanders & analyst have given him a report, that the most he could do is pull-out 1-2 battalions each month..as to how many battalions we have over there is i do not know..but he has the most DETAILED plan or should i say GRANULATED plan to pull the troops out carefully & safely for the soldiers & for the Iraqi's..Hillary hasn't put out her DETAILED plan yet..McCain has the militaristic mind & a war-monger, so don't know if he is in-touch with the public out-crys about the war.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Joe&Ghe

[dalegg 143]

He said, "I will bring this war to an end in 2009". How on earth can he know what the situation is going to be like at that point to be absolutely certain that this is even possible? Sorry but that's just stupid. His main focus on this speach is his past objections, that's not relevant now. He doesn't want to play politics my #######!

Didn't Richard Nixon say something like this in 1968?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

He took a strong stand against the war when it wasn't exactly popular to do so.

That's no 'present' vote. Sorry.

[Peikko 1,575]

Words out of context? How is stating that his number one objective is to bring the troops home in 2009 taking his words out of context? My point is very clear, it is rhetoric now, in March 2008 to say that you will begin the troop withdrawel from Iraq in 2009. Unless you have a crystal ball and know exactly what the situation on the ground is going to be in 2009 these are empty words and I don't care how detailed his exit strategy is in terms of the best way to bring the troops home that's the easy part. The hard part is maintaining the integrity of Iraq with the US troops gone and his plan is less than crystal clear on that, in fact one could say his plan is as concrete as fairy dust.

He is validating his Iraq strategy on the fact that he is the only one of the candidates ready to pull troops out of Iraq in 2009 come what may and he re-iterates ad naseum that he was against this war from the beginnig as if that in itself will make the difference My point is, that the situation now isn't a situation where we can just bring the troops home and say, sorry about that folks, I wouldn't ahve done that so here you go, have your country back. Nowhere does he make clear how he can resolve the current political difficulties in the region and suggesting that the very threat of troop withdrawel will galvanize the Iraqi people into positive action is plain ridiculous, that's like saying they don't care at the moment but given a little incentive they'll soon come around. Yeah, right.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Peikko 1,575]

My real point is, that to pretend that Barack isn't playing a political game himself is to be very niave. He knows full well people want ot hear that the troops are coming home and I can totally understand that, but it's not as simple as he would like us to believe. That's not to say that he is a terrible guy, or that he hasn't got some great ideas, but this particular aspect of his campaign simply sucks.

[Joe&Ghe 0]

Like I said this would have been a better conversation if you had READ his plans & platforms instead of bashing him from what you heard or read about him..but you have made up your mind so I respect that. B)

[Peikko 1,575]

I have read his plans, such as they appear on his website. However, feel free to point me in the direction of something more detailed if you have access to it.

[kaydee457 13]

He took a strong stand against the war when it wasn't exactly popular to do so.

That's no 'present' vote. Sorry.

Sure, but how would he vote, or not, as he has earned a reputation of doing, if he had been subjected to the same "privvy" classified information that the U.S. Senate was provided?

He took a stand based ojn his limited knowledge and experience, just as you and I, given the information he had access to....and that would be the same info that you and I digest in the news media, and no more.

We'll never know...