Bush plans to veto banning of waterboarding

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Rights provided by law in a civil setting differ from rights of enemy combatants during a war.

We are at war with these people, they attacked us first. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was the main one that we waterboarded. And he spilled his guts about the whole operation. That one action gave us more information then all the rest combined. Which in turn has allowed us to dismantle Al-Qaida. Which is now only a fraction of its former strength.

Confession before his Combatant Status Review Tribunal

In March 2007, Mohammed testified before a closed-door hearing in Guantánamo Bay. According to transcripts of the hearing released by the Pentagon, he said "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z." The transcripts also show him confessing to: organizing the 1993 World Trade Center bombing; the Bali nightclub bombings; and Richard Reid's attempted shoe bombing. He also confessed to planning attacks on Heathrow Airport and Big Ben clock tower in London, Pearl's murder in 2002, and planned assassination attempts on Pope John Paul II, Pervez Musharraf and Bill Clinton.

This is what water boarding gets you!

When the time comes he will be executed just like Saddam was!

I don't know why you Liberals are more worried about Protecting murderers and dictators than protecting innocent human beings.

What about their "human rights"?

Education is a wonderful thing. Please ask this question again whey you actually understand what human rights are and how they should be applied. Oh, but hang on, because you decided that something is true, it has to be, correct?

I understand when people fly airplanes into large buildings it definitely violates peoples human rights. But you would rather allow this to happen over and over again then to see the guilty pay for their actions.

Everything I stated here is 100% true. You are too blinded by your ignorance of actual right and wrong or good vs. evil to see the truth.

These people are evil, what don't you get about that? As long as this evil continues innocent people will pay the price.

Why do you fight what is in the best interest of your country, the world and the innocent peoples human rights? To defend murderers and dictators in the manner in which you do seems unfathomable to me?

It makes me wonder what got into your mind to warp it in such a fashion that you think your standing on moral grounds. It's almost as perverted as the people that killed innocent people in those building on that September morning.

Khaled El-Masri?

He was innocent. He paid the price.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Number 6

[Peikko 1,575]

Honestly, if I thought you/smoke etc had any real power and influence I would be quaking in my boots. As it is, I just find your ignorance laughable - and yes that would be ignorance as in lack of knowledge and understanding as apposed to some terrible insult.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I wonder what people are smoking to think that people are defending "murderers and dictators".

Hysterical conclusion-jumping. As usual. These folks must get their world-view from TV soap operas.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

I wonder what people are smoking to think that people are defending "murderers and dictators".

Hysterical conclusion-jumping. As usual. These folks must get their world-view from TV soap operas.

Because your actions lead to that no matter what your intentions are.

What matters is the result, not your intentions.

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

Honestly, if I thought you/smoke etc had any real power and influence I would be quaking in my boots. As it is, I just find your ignorance laughable - and yes that would be ignorance as in lack of knowledge and understanding as apposed to some terrible insult.

Purple Hibiscus tries to portray herself as some sort of intellectual. Funny, I never got that from her posts. Kind elitist maybe, but not MENSA material that's for sure. Knowledge is not a substitute for common sense.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I wonder what people are smoking to think that people are defending "murderers and dictators".

Hysterical conclusion-jumping. As usual. These folks must get their world-view from TV soap operas.

Because your actions lead to that no matter what your intentions are.

What matters is the result, not your intentions.

What actions would those be exactly?

I thought we were just talking. I'm doing about as much to defend "murderers and dictators" as you are to protect the country. In other words - not a damn f*cking thing.

[HAL 9000 96]

The high horse just so happens to be the very same international standards and human rights we so vehemently say we defend. Trying to squeeze orange juice out of apples is maybe ok for you, but logic and reason say nay.

your high have room for the murdering chops your saying we shouldn't waterboard?

Two wrongs do not make a right. Not too high to understand is it?

Regarding the 'murderous' porkchops... well, there is something called evidence that is precisely lacking in most of those cases. How unfortunate for some of these porkchops that due process is not exactly well understood by those dealing with the legality of the entire case, and much less for those that choose to support such a tirade of justice.

So, let me get this straight, because 'we are American' we have a right to do whatever we like? First off, I don't think the 'American people at large think in quite such absurdly isolationist terms and second, the American goverment, and by definition the 'American' people have ratified the Universal Declartion of Human Rights (all though not to all the protocols) and are therefore bound by them. As for what I know about you, I know very little, which suits me just fine.

oh here we go again with that worthless unenforceable piece of paper.

eta: if that paper means so much, just what can be done about it when someone who signed it violates it anyways?

answer - nothing!

so what's the point of it again?

The point is to be who we claim to be.

[Peikko 1,575]

Honestly, if I thought you/smoke etc had any real power and influence I would be quaking in my boots. As it is, I just find your ignorance laughable - and yes that would be ignorance as in lack of knowledge and understanding as apposed to some terrible insult.

Purple Hibiscus tries to portray herself as some sort of intellectual. Funny, I never got that from her posts. Kind elitist maybe, but not MENSA material that's for sure. Knowledge is not a substitute for common sense.

I don't 'portray' myself as anything. When was the last time I listed my qualifications as justification for my opinion?

What does "knowledge is not a substitute for common sense" mean, exactly? That when someone has knowledge of a subject they should defer to the person who just 'knows' something is true? That's brilliant.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Purple_Hibiscus

[HAL 9000 96]

I wonder what people are smoking to think that people are defending "murderers and dictators".

Hysterical conclusion-jumping. As usual. These folks must get their world-view from TV soap operas.

You must surely mean Fox News and/or taking the word of BushCo that seriously...

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

Oh, I think we have a winner for the most idiotic posting of they day, and I have to say, I didn't think Kaydee's post could be beat. Well done Charles, crack open a beer and enjoy.

fortunately for us, you're no one important and your opinion matters about as much as a fart in a tornado

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

The high horse just so happens to be the very same international standards and human rights we so vehemently say we defend. Trying to squeeze orange juice out of apples is maybe ok for you, but logic and reason say nay.

your high have room for the murdering chops your saying we shouldn't waterboard?

Two wrongs do not make a right. Not too high to understand is it?

Regarding the 'murderous' porkchops... well, there is something called evidence that is precisely lacking in most of those cases. How unfortunate for some of these porkchops that due process is not exactly well understood by those dealing with the legality of the entire case, and much less for those that choose to support such a tirade of justice.

So, let me get this straight, because 'we are American' we have a right to do whatever we like? First off, I don't think the 'American people at large think in quite such absurdly isolationist terms and second, the American goverment, and by definition the 'American' people have ratified the Universal Declartion of Human Rights (all though not to all the protocols) and are therefore bound by them. As for what I know about you, I know very little, which suits me just fine.

oh here we go again with that worthless unenforceable piece of paper.

eta: if that paper means so much, just what can be done about it when someone who signed it violates it anyways?

answer - nothing!

so what's the point of it again?

The point is to be who we claim to be.

A defendant in a trial is entitled to different rights, while being tried in a court of law then are afforded to "enemy combatants" in a time of war.

This has been the president all through our history.

[Peikko 1,575]

Us? Who are you speaking for Charles? Would that be the "American" people? Or just all those piggy backing together to enjoy the ride?

I don't rely on anyone else's support to have an opinion or to make it valid. It is what it is. Take it or leave it. My opinion, your opinion, yes, indeed, just farts in the wind. The problem is that you appear to believe that your opinion matters more than mine whereas I know opinions are a dime a dozen and mine is no more significant than anyone else's.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You mean the precedent. Surely.

Believe it or not laws have evolved since 1776 - not least in regard to the appropriate treatment of prisoners and legal due process.

[HAL 9000 96]

The presumption of innocence... err, I mean murderous porkchops, according to some, is not that easy to see or understand.

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

Us? Who are you speaking for Charles? Would that be the "American" people? Or just all those piggy backing together to enjoy the ride?

I don't rely on anyone else's support to have an opinion or to make it valid. It is what it is. Take it or leave it. My opinion, your opinion, yes, indeed, just farts in the wind. The problem is that you appear to believe that your opinion matters more than mine whereas I know opinions are a dime a dozen and mine is no more significant than anyone else's.

it's left in the gutter where it belongs, trust me