Obama's Whiny Babies: Go Ahead, Leave The Party

[no name 1]

If Obama had won either TX or OH last night it might be a question worth asking

If another candidate (say Edwards) who wasn't Clinton had won most of the big states (CA, NY, NJ, TX, etc) and had the delegates, fundraising and support she has - would you be asking them to leave the race when it was this close?

I'm not sure why Obama supporters think McCain is going to be easier to beat than Clinton

I'm asking the question, despite her wins last night, she will not gain very many delegates. She will likely loose that gain in the next two races. There are also few races that will be in her favor such that she will be able to even out the lead.

So its very likely, that no matter what she does, Obama will still go into the convention with the delegate lead. For Hillary to take the nomination at this point she will have to resort to tactics that will not be looked favorably upon.

Obama has brought into the poltical process groups of people that have remained relatively apathetic to politics. This base can strongly support the party in the November election. However, if Hillary gains the nomination, not through primary process, but through wooing superdelegates or in some other way getting Michigan and Florida to count without a revote, that new base will be alienated. That alienation will likely impact the party, not only this November, but for elections to come. Or until the next inspirational candidate.

I never openly considered myself a Democrat until this year. And I have go as far to get involved as a Delegate at our Senate district convention. I will still vote for Hillary no matter what, but my particpation in the party and process really depends on who gets nominated, and what tactics are used to get that nomination.

Even though she won races last night, she mostly running for herself at this point.

Some supporter you are, tearing her down in every post on VJ....

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I think it's a question worth asking when she really has no chance of gaining the delegates when the remaining primaries have been decided - I think we can agree that a week is a long time in politics, especially after the one just past.

Beside, don't you think that roughly half the Democrats who voted for her already might be alienated themselves if she drops out now? I hear a lot of talk about hillary's "arrogance" but I find it rather arrogant of the Obama supporters to suggest the support she has at the moment is not significant.

[no name 1]

I think it's a question worth asking when she really has no chance of gaining the delegates when the remaining primaries have been decided - I think we can agree that a week is a long time in politics, especially after the one just past.

Beside, don't you think that roughly half the Democrats who voted for her already might be alienated themselves if she drops out now? I hear a lot of talk about hillary's "arrogance" but I find it rather arrogant of the Obama supporters to suggest the support she has at the moment is not significant.

Not to mention Democrats by more than a 2-1 margin say Hillary should stay even if she lost either the Texas or Ohio primary...

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Vote2008/story?id=4378906

[Dan J 277]

I think it's a question worth asking when she really has no chance of gaining the delegates when the remaining primaries have been decided - I think we can agree that a week is a long time in politics, especially after the one just past.

Beside, don't you think that roughly half the Democrats who voted for her already might be alienated themselves if she drops out now? I hear a lot of talk about hillary's "arrogance" but I find it rather arrogant of the Obama supporters to suggest the support she has at the moment is not significant.

Right. Which is why I don't really like how this race has polarized people. I wish more people would get passionate about the party rather than one specific candidate.

She does have support. But at the moment, Obama has more support. About 80% of the delegates have been decided, based on her current trends, can she build enough support in the next few races to secure the nomination.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I think it's a question worth asking when she really has no chance of gaining the delegates when the remaining primaries have been decided - I think we can agree that a week is a long time in politics, especially after the one just past.

Beside, don't you think that roughly half the Democrats who voted for her already might be alienated themselves if she drops out now? I hear a lot of talk about hillary's "arrogance" but I find it rather arrogant of the Obama supporters to suggest the support she has at the moment is not significant.

Right. Which is why I don't really like how this race has polarized people. I wish more people would get passionate about the party rather than one specific candidate.

She does have support. But at the moment, Obama has more support. About 80% of the delegates have been decided, based on her current trends, can she build enough support in the next few races to secure the nomination.

I don't think people are as polarized as the media would have you believe

[Dan J 277]

I think it's a question worth asking when she really has no chance of gaining the delegates when the remaining primaries have been decided - I think we can agree that a week is a long time in politics, especially after the one just past.

Beside, don't you think that roughly half the Democrats who voted for her already might be alienated themselves if she drops out now? I hear a lot of talk about hillary's "arrogance" but I find it rather arrogant of the Obama supporters to suggest the support she has at the moment is not significant.

Right. Which is why I don't really like how this race has polarized people. I wish more people would get passionate about the party rather than one specific candidate.

She does have support. But at the moment, Obama has more support. About 80% of the delegates have been decided, based on her current trends, can she build enough support in the next few races to secure the nomination.

I don't think people are as polarized as the media would have you believe

No, but the ones who are are a very vocal bunch.

As I said, I'll vote for either, but preferably if the nomination is achived through means that are considered fair, not dirty politics.

She has the right to stay in. If by some amazing feat, she pulls off huge victories in all the next few races and then she can become the nominee. The chances of that are much smaller than the chances of Obama making up the lead after Super Tuesday.

While she plays to win, I can't help but wonder how her tactics may affect the party overall.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

If Obama can't deliver a knock-out blow to Clinton, you have to ask yourself if he can beat McCain. If he wins the next couple primaries as you seem sure that he will (though everyone was so certain of his success in OH and TX), then there should be a conversation about whether she needs to step down

I would actually be more uncomfortable if Hillary left the race now, than if she stayed in. I think it makes Obama look weak.

[Alex+R 0]

I don't understand why people think Hillary should quit.

I also don't understand why people think Hillary has played dirty. She might have, but we don't have evidence of it.

Just let them dayum nomination process run its course.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Basically, Obama supporters are threatening to abandon the party and stay home in November if we don't capitulate to their temper tantrums. Since a larger amount of Clinton supporters don't have a problem with Obama (like me), it's a winning strategy.

Popular Vote Count thus far:

Obama: 12,989,852

Clinton: 12,403,174

Elected Delegate Count:

Obama: 1573

Clinton: 1464

The only two year old temper tantrum I see here is that of Hill and her bots to ignore what the people say.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Basically, Obama supporters are threatening to abandon the party and stay home in November if we don't capitulate to their temper tantrums. Since a larger amount of Clinton supporters don't have a problem with Obama (like me), it's a winning strategy.

Popular Vote Count thus far:

Obama: 12,989,852

Clinton: 12,403,174

Elected Delegate Count:

Obama: 1573

Clinton: 1464

The only two year old temper tantrum I see here is that of Hill and her bots to ignore what the people say.

...and lets look at last night's tide turning 'victory' for Hillary:

Our projections show the most likely outcome of yesterday's elections will be that Hillary Clinton gained 187 delegates, and we gained 183.

That's a net gain of 4 delegates out of more than 370 delegates available from all the states that voted.

For comparison, that's less than half our net gain of 9 delegates from the District of Columbia alone. It's also less than our net gain of 8 from Nebraska, or 12 from Washington State. And it's considerably less than our net gain of 33 delegates from Georgia.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/p...amfelsen/gGBLmx

[Peikko 1,575]

Having thought about it, I don't think Barack supporters are whiny, but they are of course very passionate him, probably something to do with the charisma factor although I have to make a guestimate on that one as because I personally don't get it. (Not sure if I don't find him charismatic, or if charisma has little effect on me, it could be the latter). Regardless, I think his having to overcome the stubborn resistance of the Hilary supporters should stand him in good stead if he does become the Democratic nominee, because of one thing one can be sure, it's going to be a tough presidential campaign.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

McCain might have won the nomination for his party - but he's sure making some weird campaign choices. First he endorses a controversial minister who has made offensive remarks against Catholics, today he's asked George W. Bush to help him campaign in the general election.

That's not going to do a lot to endear him to undecided voters, and will probably be a reality check to the Democrats who threatened to support him over Hillary, if she were the Democrat nominatee.

[Peikko 1,575]

I thought the Bush thing was more of a 'one off' photo op kinda deal from what I heard.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I thought the Bush thing was more of a 'one off' photo op kinda deal from what I heard.

Definitely not. I heard McCain on the radio today asking GWB to go out and help him on the campaign trail. Bush is going to be out there doing soapbox speeches and shaking hands.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Number 6

[Caladan 19]

I don't understand why people think Hillary should quit.

I also don't understand why people think Hillary has played dirty. She might have, but we don't have evidence of it.

Just let them dayum nomination process run its course.

I agree. If you look at history, almost no one has dropped out at this point when it's been a two person race.

Still, for years the DLC's been whining about low 18-24 turnout, and they finally show up and their nominee (not that Obama doesn't have lots of other support) is winning, and look, I'd vote for Clinton in the general, but I can't say I'd blame anyone for being disillusioned if Obama has a commanding delegate lead and loses the nomination on seating MI/FL or superdelegates. The same would hold true if Clinton were the one up by 120 delegates at this point.

HRC has a lot of ground to make up; she made up about 4 delegates overall last night. And the primaries aren't winner take-all, so that's going to be very hard to close the gap. I think her plan at this point has to be not to win overall, but to cut into Obama's lead enough that she can make the case to the superdelegates that they're close enough that she should be the nominee and that it won't look like the superdelegates ignoring the results of the primaries.

(Problem with that is that as of now, Obama polls better against McCain than she does. But July is a long way off.)