Lebanese protesters torch Danish Embassy

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

You are missing an important point here. What's offensive to the Muslim world (depiction of the prophet) is not necessarily the same as what might be considered offensive elsewhere (holocaust denial, for example). The Muslims don't get to set the standard for everyone here. As long as they offend, they ought to be ready to be offended. If they want self-censorship to avoid offending others, it would suit them well to start right at home. Until then, they have no valid complaint.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have seen many of the cartoons printed by middle eastern media and they are far worse than the offending danish cartoon. In fact they don't even compare. yet no saudi or jordanian embassies have been torched. explain that one to me.

Find just one depicting Jesus or Moses.

Rebecca

Does it need to be Jesus or Moses to be offensive to me as a human being?

No, but I am discussing the reaction rather than what is offensive and the comparison that what is done in the Arab/Muslim media is the SAME as what was done in this case.

There are plenty of offensive cartoons about Muslim political leaders, Muslims, etc. that you do not see this reaction to. The difference is that this depicted a Prophet in an offensive way, and that is NOT something you would find done by Muslims regarding the Christian/Jewish prophets.

Again, I find the reaction appalling, but I think this is a very unfair comparison.

Rebecca

Hold on just a second... I don't recall hearing that the cartoonist was christian. So since I am not a christian, does this mean I am allowed to make offensive cartoons about Mohammed or Jesus or Moses?

At least we agree on one thing, the reaction was appalling. And I do also think the cartoon was in bad taste. I didn't find it funny at all.

Two issues here:

1) The reactions: There are and have been plenty of negative depictions of Muslims and Muslim leaders that you have not seen this reaction to. In this case a prophet was depicted. I am saying comparing the reaction of an offensive depiction of Sharon to the offensive depiction of Muhammad is unfair. A fair comparison would be the reaction of a depiction of Arafat to Sharon, or Jewish people to Muslim people.

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Two issues here:

1) The reactions: There are and have been plenty of negative depictions of Muslims and Muslim leaders that you have not seen this reaction to. In this case a prophet was depicted. I am saying comparing the reaction of an offensive depiction of Sharon to the offensive depiction of Muhammad is unfair. A fair comparison would be the reaction of a depiction of Arafat to Sharon, or Jewish people to Muslim people.

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

Word!

[junglee069 0]

where is there a cartoon mocking the holocaust?

Two issues here:

1) The reactions: There are and have been plenty of negative depictions of Muslims and Muslim leaders that you have not seen this reaction to. In this case a prophet was depicted. I am saying comparing the reaction of an offensive depiction of Sharon to the offensive depiction of Muhammad is unfair. A fair comparison would be the reaction of a depiction of Arafat to Sharon, or Jewish people to Muslim people.

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

Word!

[chri'stina 190]

Two issues here:

1) The reactions: There are and have been plenty of negative depictions of Muslims and Muslim leaders that you have not seen this reaction to. In this case a prophet was depicted. I am saying comparing the reaction of an offensive depiction of Sharon to the offensive depiction of Muhammad is unfair. A fair comparison would be the reaction of a depiction of Arafat to Sharon, or Jewish people to Muslim people.

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

Word!

double word

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

where is there a cartoon mocking the holocaust?

Scroll back a few pages.. one of ET's posts.

[junglee069 0]

where is there a cartoon mocking the holocaust?

Scroll back a few pages.. one of ET's posts.

lazy

[pedroh 21]

Two issues here:

1) The reactions: There are and have been plenty of negative depictions of Muslims and Muslim leaders that you have not seen this reaction to. In this case a prophet was depicted. I am saying comparing the reaction of an offensive depiction of Sharon to the offensive depiction of Muhammad is unfair. A fair comparison would be the reaction of a depiction of Arafat to Sharon, or Jewish people to Muslim people.

2) The comparison that the Arab/Muslim media is equally offensive as the Western media. It was said that the Arab media does the "same" on a regular basis. I am saying they will never depict a prophet in that way.

Rebecca

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

Word!

double word

triple word and double pwnage! (triple pwnage would be too much)

sacred or not.. I also think theres no comparison between a real tragedy as holocaust and a prophet that 'existed'

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

where is there a cartoon mocking the holocaust?

Scroll back a few pages.. one of ET's posts.

lazy

Post #17 and forward through #24. The Arab European League smut (Anne Frank in bed with Hitler and such) has apparently been removed from their site. Israel has, by the way, lodged a criminal complaint against their Dutch website that posted these items. No burning embassies because of it but a civilized dealing with the rather serious offense. What a novel concept...

Edited February 6, 2006 by ET-US2004

[HuffyTheSlayer 22]

What I find the worst is these "peacefull" Muslims are not only burning down buildings and being violent, but that they are also being violent towards firefighters and police officers whom are only doing their jobs. I find it particular offensive to be attacking the firefighters who could some day save the lives of them and their families.

[Bosco 1]

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

I

I never said one was worse than the other. I never measured "offensive". I am talking about the use of the word "same" in comparing the two.

In this particular case, a prophet was depicted negatively. The "same" thing has not been done by the Arab/Muslim media. All sides offend on a regular basis but it is not always done the "same".

Rebecca

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

I

I never said one was worse than the other. I never measured "offensive". I am talking about the use of the word "same" in comparing the two.

In this particular case, a prophet was depicted negatively. The "same" thing has not been done by the Arab/Muslim media. All sides offend on a regular basis but it is not always done the "same".

Rebecca

What's your point?

Arabs offend others, nobody dies, nothing burns because of it. Others offend Arabs, people die and embassies burn. The Arab world has been presented with an offense from the West that is, per your own admission, no worse than the offense that the Arab world slings at the West and Israel quite regularly. Whether it's the "same" matters not since what Arabs find offensive is not the same as what others might find offensive. The Muslim world doesn't get to impose their standard on all the rest.

Edited February 6, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Bosco 1]

What I find the worst is these "peacefull" Muslims are not only burning down buildings and being violent, but that they are also being violent towards firefighters and police officers whom are only doing their jobs. I find it particular offensive to be attacking the firefighters who could some day save the lives of them and their families.

Who claimed that the people committing the violence were peaceful?

Millions of Muslims have protested the cartoons peacefully. There are plenty of countries were protests have gone on and no violence has broken out. Hundreds, maybe thousands, have participated in rioting and violence but millions have not. Even in the protests where violence went on, a small number actually participated. This is no way excusing the actions of those who did commit violent acts, but why is it that the actions of the minority are reflecting the majority?

Who on VJ is linking up the articles about the large scale peaceful protests?

We have had church burnings, clinics blown up, riots after trials, sporting events, etc. but we never paint ourselves with as broad as a brush. Does the aftermath of Rodney King reflect African Americans? Does the bombing of a clinic reflect Christians?

I would love to see this outage by the Muslim community after a beheading or after 9/11, both of which I personally find far more offensive to Islam than these cartoons. That isn't the point. So much focus is being made on the actions of a minority and people are acting like our country is free of its stupidity and violence.

Rebecca

Edited February 6, 2006 by rhouni

[Fuzzness 2]

Who claimed that the people committing the violence were peaceful?

Millions of Muslims have protested the cartoons peacefully. There are plenty of countries were protests have gone on and no violence has broken out. Hundreds, maybe thousands, have participated in rioting and violence but millions have not. This is no way excusing the actions of those who did commit violent acts, but why is it that the actions of the minority are reflecting the majority?

You do have a good point. But you have to admit that this minority of violent protestors are not making it easy for the majority of muslims who are in fact peaceful. That is what I find so sad about this whole thing.

[Bosco 1]

Your response projects the primitive, tribalist mindset of the masses of the Middle East on secular, progressive Europeans.

What makes you think insulting some so-called prophet is any worse than insulting the memories of real victims of a real act of human tragedy (the Holocaust)?

I

I never said one was worse than the other. I never measured "offensive". I am talking about the use of the word "same" in comparing the two.

In this particular case, a prophet was depicted negatively. The "same" thing has not been done by the Arab/Muslim media. All sides offend on a regular basis but it is not always done the "same".

Rebecca

What's your point?

Arabs offend others, nobody dies, nothing burns because of it. Others offend Arabs, people die and embassies burn. The Arab world has been presented with an offense from the West that is, per your own admission, no worse than the offense that the Arab world slings at the West and Israel quite regularly. Whether it's the "same" matters not since what Arabs find offensive is not the same as what others might find offensive. The Muslim world doesn't get to impose their standard on all the rest.

The point was only that the SAME thing, the negative depiction of a prophet, has not been done by the Muslim countries in their media. I never justified the response or the imposition of their standards on others.

Rebecca