Will a Hong Kong Divorce be accepted in Manila USE?

[ManilaIdaho 2]

You didnt mention in your original post that your filipino husband was married twice before the divorce. . now this makes all the difference. If your filipino husband was married twice before he married you, then there was really no marriage between you and him in the first place. Ergo, no need for the divorce or an annulment.

What I am trying to explain is that, Filipino citizens, if they are legally married in the Philippines, even if they obtained a divorce decree abroad, such is not valid in the Philippines because it doesnt recognize divorce.

Yes, I know of Filipino couples who came here and got married to another even if their marriage in the Philippines is not anulled yet, the divorce might be valid here, but not in the Philippines. My point is simple, a divorce obtained by a Filipino citizen abroad, against a filipino spouse, is not binding in the Philippines, this is the law. I think my point is clear.

As I have mentioned earlier, the process you took worked for you , so thats all that matters , really. I am just pointing out the legality of the issue at hand because the OP's beneficiary is in the Philippines, unlike your situation where you were interviewed in the US Embassy in Hongkong. This is all about the OP's situation.

Im sorry to hear that you have encountered crooked lawyers, but we are not all the same. My mother is a great lawyer and judge, and I know I am a respectable lawyer when I was still in the Philippines and I am proud to be one.

Anyhow, as I've mentioned earlier, you are here now, thats all that matter. Im sure you read the other posts here and we all agree about the legality of a divorce obtained abroad, not just me.

Godbless.

Myla

If one found out that her/his spouse has a previous marriage and never gotten an annulment and wants to remarry again,he/she needs to file for a declaration of nullity of marriage because failure to do so will be a possible charge for bigamy (LINK)

for those who cant afford to pay for a private lawyer but wants to file for an annulment,we have the Public Attorney's Office(PAO) who are willing to help people provided they could get a certificate of Indegency from the Department of Social Welfare and Development(DSWD) near their place

Edited April 26, 2008 by ManilaIdaho

[jom 4]

Exactly. As long as the second marriage to the USC is done outside the Philippines, the law doesn't really matter because the act was committed outside of the country where that particular law applies.Suffice to say , as long as Filipino citizens obtain divorces outside the Philippines and remarry outside the Philippines and live outside the Philipines , everything is well. No need to fear.

Understood that the Filipino obtaining a foreign divorce remains married in the Philippines. My guess is that if the divorce enabled the Filipino to remarry and move to the US or Canada or the UK or wherever...then the Philippine law is of no interest or consequence to them anyway...unless they intend to relocate back to the Philippines (are we saying the same thing here?). I'd speculate, however, that most don't ever plan to move back...so the Philippine law is not "law" at all to them. For those few (assuming it is a few) that want to relocate back to the Philippines....they will have some tough decisions to make (get an annulment from the first spouse...and afterward remarry the same person they are already bigamously married to? continue living legally married outside the Philippines...versus... live in a bigamous marriage in the Philippines? wait until the other Filipino spouse dies...and then move back?)

I completely acknowledge that divorce is not allowed and/or accepted in the Philippines in most cases. I also acknowledge that such a restriction of personal freedom is rare in this world. There are only two countries that actually ban divorce -- the Philippines and Malta. So...it should not be a surprise to anyone that most countries will not single out their residents of Philippine origin to enforce the internationally rare and uncommon "no divorce" laws of the Philippines.

Bottom line: As long as you are legal where you reside...who cares? This Philippine law can be turned "on" or "off" based on where you choose to live. Anyone living outside of the Philippines need not even waste time discussing this Philippine law -- as it simply is NOT law outside of the Philippines. So...if one wants to remain legal...don't move back (or be prepared to deal with Philippine law ONLY at such time that one relocates). The Philippine Supreme Court car reaffirm its no divorce law for Philippine nationals as often as it wants. Unenforceable laws simply are not law...and this is the case outside of the Philippines. No Filipino national need fear anything at with a foreign divorce...as they are no longer subject to Philippine law outside of the Philippines.

Apologies for all of the redundancy here. I have attempted to err on the side of being overly clear for those not up-to-speed on this subject. Based on much uninformed talk...many Filipinos fear they will be breaking the law with a foreign divorce. They need to understand that their fear is completely unwarranted...and that they are 100% legal as long as they reside outside the Philippines. The Philippine law simply does not exist in such a case.

You are right.It is one's domicile that determines which court has jurisdiction over a case that has a foreign element in it, when it comes to Filipinos living abroad, EXCEPT laws affecting family matters.For us Filipinos, its the citizenship that rules ( Under Book 1 of the Civil Code of the Philippines : Art. 15. Laws relating to family rights and duties, or to the status, condition and legal capacity of persons are binding upon citizens of the Philippines, even though living abroad ) IF A FILIPINO CITIZEN MARRIES ANOTHER FILIPINO CITIZEN IN THE PHILIPPINES , no matter how many divorces he/she obtains abroad which is not registered in the Philippines, his/her marital status remains married in the records of our NSO until such time that the same is being annuled by a Philippine Court. We are talking here about Filipino citizens who married IN THE PHILIPPINES. This makes all the difference.

In fact it was worst before the Family Code was enacted because a Filipino citizen remained married even if the foreign spouse has obtained a divorce from his country, hence the amendment to give the Filipino citizen automatic status of unmarried once the foreign spouse has been issued the divorce decree abroad.

The fact remains that , these divorces may be valid outside the Philippines, recognized by other countries BUT, when one returns there he or she is still married to their Filipino spouse and their marriage still exist in our records, BUT as you said if a Filipino citizen lives in Siberia for 40 years and has no intention to leave then it doesn't really matter.

There are numerous cases like this decided by the Supereme Court in the Philippines and they have not been superseded by new decisions stating otherwise.

On a different note, when a Filipino citizen marries OUTSIDE THE PHILIPPINES, in a country where divorce is recognized, now this makes all the difference. She can legally obtain a divorce despite her citizenship.

The law maybe harsh but it is the law.

Rather than reply to several posts individually...I will share several thoughts here in a single reply:

I don't think it matters if the ex-husband signs the HK divorce papers. If both don't agree on the divorce...it simply becomes a contested divorce. If there were valid grounds for the divorce, the divorce should succeed whether the other party signs or not. When both sign, it's cheaper and faster to conclude the divorce...but the signature of both parties should not be required.

The USCIS did not honor Philippine law because the HK court did not honor Philippine law. I can find lots of countries that will not honor the Philippine's no-divorce law. It is commonly accepted in international law that one's domicile (not citizenship) typically determines which court (and associated laws) has jurisdiction over a matter. Laws often only make sense within the countries that make them. If you reside somewhere other than the country in which a law was made, courts look at the problem realistically. Your "home" of an indefinite period of time (or, "domicile") will determine which which court has the authority to decide. Things get very complicated very fast if courts try to look at it any other way. (If you live in Siberia for 40 years with no intention to leave...which countries law should apply if you were born in the Philippines?)

Interestingly enough, even the Philippines is forced to recognize divorce in the case of a foreign spouse of a Filipino that obtains a divorce. So...there divorce IS actually acknowledged and defended in Philippine law. It's just that if you are a Filipino national that initiates the divorce, you are fresh out of luck.

I got my divorced in HK, too. The difference was, my papers was proccessed in HK US Embassy instead in Manila US Embassy. Everything went well in HK US Embassy...so can't give you any advice how they proccess the papers in Manila US Embassy. They didn't ask my CENOMAR (certificate of no marriage record) coz' I showed my divorced papers as well my marriage records from my ex-husband (he is a filipino) from NSO. If the beneficiary was single they have to present CENOMAR. I guess she'll be fine coz' she can't have the divorce done if her ex-husband didn't sign those document before filing it in the HK court for divorce.

Goodluck!

This is very interesting. And very lucky for you that the US embassy in Hongkong recognized the divorce decree issued there. It only means that the embassy is not aware of our laws regarding divorce. Under Philippine laws, you are still married to your filipino husband since you are both Filipino citizens and divorce is not recognized in the Philippines. But , filing the divorce in HOngkong and the K1 visa worked good for you and you are here now so thats all that matters.

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Wow! Thanks for the thread and responses. I have something else to add to my tool belt.

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

[N360 0]

I'm really not sure why people dont get anullments. All these things seems complicated, especially since I know annulments in the Philipiines are very easy to do.

I know annulments cost a bit of money but if I'm really in love with some one in the PI that is currently married, I would want her to NOT be married to someone else in the PI or any other country.

Like the Sheriff said in another unrelated thread.... You gotta pay to play.

[raquel_1208 1]

I'm really not sure why people dont get anullments. All these things seems complicated, especially since I know annulments in the Philipiines are very easy to do.

I know annulments cost a bit of money but if I'm really in love with some one in the PI that is currently married, I would want her to NOT be married to someone else in the PI or any other country.

Like the Sheriff said in another unrelated thread.... You gotta pay to play.

Annulments are not very easy to do and its not a bit of money as you have put it. Its a lot of money and time involve. It took me 2 years to get mine. I even heard from court employees 3 cases before me getting denied by the judge. Some have gotten it faster because they have the money to bribe the psychologist, prosecuting attorney and the judge. I heard there is what they call "package deal" nowadays. Some lawyers even offer a non-appearance to court. The judge who handled my case does not accept public attorneys for annulments unless its for criminal cases. So if you are a poor filipina married to a jerk, I don't think you will get a chance at it.

[ManilaIdaho 2]

I'm really not sure why people dont get anullments. All these things seems complicated, especially since I know annulments in the Philipiines are very easy to do.

I know annulments cost a bit of money but if I'm really in love with some one in the PI that is currently married, I would want her to NOT be married to someone else in the PI or any other country.

Like the Sheriff said in another unrelated thread.... You gotta pay to play.

You think the same as my fiance.I wish other men think the way you do especially the Filipino men.Most of them dont want to pay for the annulment,they have the guts of marrying another woman without resolving their first marriage yet,they said it'll just be a waste of time and money.

As for my case,i was the one who filed for declaration of nullity and paid my lawyer when I found out that he has an existing marriage and never had a plan of getting an annulment,the price is worth it considering the peace of mind that i could get.

But please be reminded that an annulment or declaration of nullity is not very easy to do especially if the case is filed in Manila where there lots of backlogs (I never knew then it can be filed anywhere)my case was like finding a needle in a haystack,I thought it will never be over,but God is really amazing,it's true that God always make a way when there seems to be no way.after almost 3yrs of waiting for it to be over,I'm now free to marry my fiance

[N360 0]

You think the same as my fiance.I wish other men think the way you do especially the Filipino men.Most of them dont want to pay for the annulment,they have the guts of marrying another woman without resolving their first marriage yet,they said it'll just be a waste of time and money.

As for my case,i was the one who filed for declaration of nullity and paid my lawyer when I found out that he has an existing marriage and never had a plan of getting an annulment,the price is worth it considering the peace of mind that i could get.

But please be reminded that an annulment or declaration of nullity is not very easy to do especially if the case is filed in Manila where there lots of backlogs (I never knew then it can be filed anywhere)my case was like finding a needle in a haystack,I thought it will never be over,but God is really amazing,it's true that God always make a way when there seems to be no way.after almost 3yrs of waiting for it to be over,I'm now free to marry my fiance

Wow! Most annulments I've seen didnt take three years. It only took between $500 to $2,000 to grease the right people's hand. :-)

Congrats & good luck btw!!! Now you're free to enjoy the rest of your lives without worrying about the "legal" spouse in the Philippines.

[N360 0]

Annulments are not very easy to do and its not a bit of money as you have put it. Its a lot of money and time involve. It took me 2 years to get mine. I even heard from court employees 3 cases before me getting denied by the judge. Some have gotten it faster because they have the money to bribe the psychologist, prosecuting attorney and the judge. I heard there is what they call "package deal" nowadays. Some lawyers even offer a non-appearance to court. The judge who handled my case does not accept public attorneys for annulments unless its for criminal cases. So if you are a poor filipina married to a jerk, I don't think you will get a chance at it.

I wasnt referring to poor filipinas married to a jerk. I was reffering to filipinas married to foreigners where surely the "annulment fees" are a little bit more "affordable".

My post is just my opinion and it is probably what I would have done if I was in the OP's situation. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do. I'd rather save up a couple or even a few thousand dollars to bribe everyone, including the husband, so I can bring my fiance here worry free of everything.

Like I said, if I really love someone, I dont want her to be married to anyone else. you can talk about the legalities in other countries all you want but the legality AND reality of it all is.... the fiance is STILL married in the Philippines.

[ManilaIdaho 2]

You think the same as my fiance.I wish other men think the way you do especially the Filipino men.Most of them dont want to pay for the annulment,they have the guts of marrying another woman without resolving their first marriage yet,they said it'll just be a waste of time and money.

As for my case,i was the one who filed for declaration of nullity and paid my lawyer when I found out that he has an existing marriage and never had a plan of getting an annulment,the price is worth it considering the peace of mind that i could get.

But please be reminded that an annulment or declaration of nullity is not very easy to do especially if the case is filed in Manila where there lots of backlogs (I never knew then it can be filed anywhere)my case was like finding a needle in a haystack,I thought it will never be over,but God is really amazing,it's true that God always make a way when there seems to be no way.after almost 3yrs of waiting for it to be over,I'm now free to marry my fiance

Wow! Most annulments I've seen didnt take three years. It only took between $500 to $2,000 to grease the right people's hand. :-)

Congrats & good luck btw!!! Now you're free to enjoy the rest of your lives without worrying about the "legal" spouse in the Philippines.

Thank you,yes,i am now worry free and glad that i have decided to file for a declaration for nullity even before I met my fiance.The reason why it took so long was I didnt make any follow ups with my lawyer,and he was so lax since he was already fully paid even before he filed it in the court.Also,i didnt have any special someone at that time.it was only when i met my fiance that I became persistent.that's because I want to be married to him and good enough,after just a few months of personally following it up to the court,I was there almost everyday,talking and bugging all the people in court including the judge,she finally signed the decision January of this year

Now we're just waiting for our NOA2,hoping and praying it'll be soon

God is really good!

[winelight 0]

Annulments in the Philippines can be particularly difficult if one of the parties does everything possible to sabotage the annulment. Because annulment is not based on a "no-fault" principle...you could be out a lot of money to get it through court...and with no guarantee of success.

What even scarier is possible delays when the other spouse wants to sabotage. For many...annulment in the Philippines is not a realistic option. A Hong Kong divorce starts to sound a lot more attractive to many...assuming the Filipino can find work in HK (or is already working there).

You think the same as my fiance.I wish other men think the way you do especially the Filipino men.Most of them dont want to pay for the annulment,they have the guts of marrying another woman without resolving their first marriage yet,they said it'll just be a waste of time and money.

As for my case,i was the one who filed for declaration of nullity and paid my lawyer when I found out that he has an existing marriage and never had a plan of getting an annulment,the price is worth it considering the peace of mind that i could get.

But please be reminded that an annulment or declaration of nullity is not very easy to do especially if the case is filed in Manila where there lots of backlogs (I never knew then it can be filed anywhere)my case was like finding a needle in a haystack,I thought it will never be over,but God is really amazing,it's true that God always make a way when there seems to be no way.after almost 3yrs of waiting for it to be over,I'm now free to marry my fiance

Wow! Most annulments I've seen didnt take three years. It only took between $500 to $2,000 to grease the right people's hand. :-)

Congrats & good luck btw!!! Now you're free to enjoy the rest of your lives without worrying about the "legal" spouse in the Philippines.

Thank you,yes,i am now worry free and glad that i have decided to file for a declaration for nullity even before I met my fiance.The reason why it took so long was I didnt make any follow ups with my lawyer,and he was so lax since he was already fully paid even before he filed it in the court.Also,i didnt have any special someone at that time.it was only when i met my fiance that I became persistent.that's because I want to be married to him and good enough,after just a few months of personally following it up to the court,I was there almost everyday,talking and bugging all the people in court including the judge,she finally signed the decision January of this year

Now we're just waiting for our NOA2,hoping and praying it'll be soon

God is really good!

[Steven Shirley 0]

Can someone confirm for me that divorce for a Filipina working in Singapore is similar to Hong Kong? Minimal residence duration in Singapore (3-6 months) of the divorce applicant is expected by the judge as additional evidence of Singapore domicile? The courts will handle a contested (unilateral) divorce between two Filipino nationals married in the Philippines? No issues with USCIS accepting a Singaporean divorce in such a case? Any "gotchas" that one should be aware of in the situation described above?

My recomendation is for you to directly call the USE where your fiancee will interview for her visa and ask them if they will accept the divorce from singapore courts. That is what I ended up doing after starting this thread and getting so many responses controdicting each other.

Also I spoke with an immigration attorny (he did not charge me) who indicated he would research the question since it could impact future clients. He was unable to locate a direct regulation but indicated he found several documented situations where a forgien (non philipines) divorce was recognized by the USE / USCIS as sufficiant to grant the fiancee visa. He was quite helpful.... here is his website link: http://www.k1fianceevisas.com/

As for Singapore courts handling the divorce, that is a matter of singapore law i think. I looked up the Hong kong codes and it seemed that the courts basically said that whichever spouse files first in their country will have the divorce / annument following the rules of the residence of the spouse that filed first. In other words if your fiancee files first in singapore (if it's regulations are similar to HK) she will be able to get it processed through the Singapore courts under singapore law. However, if her current legal Phil husband were to file for annumlent in phil or divorce in another country (if he was also not in Phil) then the divoce would be processed under the laws and jursdiction of that county and court system. I have not looked up singapore law but just a thourgh Google search is likely to help you. I found all the regs I learned about in Hong Kong simply by searching varous terms and following relevent links. hope this helps and God bless!! Steven

PS I was also able to locate several people on this site who have been able to complete an annulment in Phil....see this thread / topic: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111491 Title = "Cost for annulment..". I contacted a few people who reported successful annulments and asked for info on who to contact...all were willing and most were very helpful. Shirley (my fiancee) is starting the process for annulment in addtion to the completed divorce in HK just so there will not be any problems when she visits family in Phil or if somtime in the future we retire there and take advantage of the lower cost of living in Phil.....probably will not happen but better to be prepared I think....and now...before we are legaly married seems like the best time...that way no accusations of bigamy can be made.

[winelight 0]

Thanks a lot Steven.

That was an exceptionally helpful post. I am not sure if my Filipina friend will go to work in Hong Kong or Singapore. Looks like there there should be no problems through Hong Kong...I just need to be sure about Singapore should she find work there.

Prior to my original post, I did a lot of research on Singapore divorce. In theory...the divorce situation in Singapore appears to be exactly as in Hong Kong. I hear rumors that Singapore will not grant divorces to domestic helpers in Singapore, but this does not appear to be substiantiated in what I have read (and I have read the entire divorce law in Singapore).

The law in both places does not have a minimum length of time in which you must have lived there...but a HK lawyer told me that a judge will usually have no problems with 6 months residency as evidence that you are truly a resident. I have also read 3 months for HK. So...this is a "gray" area. Who knows if a Singapore judge will require an even longer period of residency before a judge will believe that you are truly a Singapore resident.

So...there are two issues I need to research (1) will the Singapore court allow a divorce for a Filipina after a 3-6 months living there? and (2) Will the USCIS accept a Singapore divorce?

Again...many thanks for a very informative post.

Can someone confirm for me that divorce for a Filipina working in Singapore is similar to Hong Kong? Minimal residence duration in Singapore (3-6 months) of the divorce applicant is expected by the judge as additional evidence of Singapore domicile? The courts will handle a contested (unilateral) divorce between two Filipino nationals married in the Philippines? No issues with USCIS accepting a Singaporean divorce in such a case? Any "gotchas" that one should be aware of in the situation described above?

My recomendation is for you to directly call the USE where your fiancee will interview for her visa and ask them if they will accept the divorce from singapore courts. That is what I ended up doing after starting this thread and getting so many responses controdicting each other.

Also I spoke with an immigration attorny (he did not charge me) who indicated he would research the question since it could impact future clients. He was unable to locate a direct regulation but indicated he found several documented situations where a forgien (non philipines) divorce was recognized by the USE / USCIS as sufficiant to grant the fiancee visa. He was quite helpful.... here is his website link: http://www.k1fianceevisas.com/

As for Singapore courts handling the divorce, that is a matter of singapore law i think. I looked up the Hong kong codes and it seemed that the courts basically said that whichever spouse files first in their country will have the divorce / annument following the rules of the residence of the spouse that filed first. In other words if your fiancee files first in singapore (if it's regulations are similar to HK) she will be able to get it processed through the Singapore courts under singapore law. However, if her current legal Phil husband were to file for annumlent in phil or divorce in another country (if he was also not in Phil) then the divoce would be processed under the laws and jursdiction of that county and court system. I have not looked up singapore law but just a thourgh Google search is likely to help you. I found all the regs I learned about in Hong Kong simply by searching varous terms and following relevent links. hope this helps and God bless!! Steven

PS I was also able to locate several people on this site who have been able to complete an annulment in Phil....see this thread / topic: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111491 Title = "Cost for annulment..". I contacted a few people who reported successful annulments and asked for info on who to contact...all were willing and most were very helpful. Shirley (my fiancee) is starting the process for annulment in addtion to the completed divorce in HK just so there will not be any problems when she visits family in Phil or if somtime in the future we retire there and take advantage of the lower cost of living in Phil.....probably will not happen but better to be prepared I think....and now...before we are legaly married seems like the best time...that way no accusations of bigamy can be made.

[Dakine 26]

May work out with USCIS and get K1 visa. However what will happen if she trys to visit Philippines in the future?

Get arrested for bigamy?

Maybe Philippine immigration doesn't check that much. Especially if she returns as US Citizen with new name.