Cutting ties or helping with AOS

[Caladan 19]

The alien claiming abuse means that they can petition to adjust status on their own. I believe, in those cases, that the USC isn't responsible for the I-864, but I am not certain how the support works.

I don't see it as making the USC terribly vulnerable. There's a nice urban myth that all the immigrant has to do is claim abuse and they get a green card, but that's really not the case from the people here who sadly have had to avail themselves of that option. It's a long, hard process that requires documentation and takes years to resolve.

As for the rest of it, yes, you should get to know the person you marry. But the consequences of not doing that are, imo, much worse than potentially having the state come after you for misgiven welfare benefits.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

The alien claiming abuse means that they can petition to adjust status on their own. I believe, in those cases, that the USC isn't responsible for the I-864, but I am not certain how the support works.

I don't see it as making the USC terribly vulnerable. There's a nice urban myth that all the immigrant has to do is claim abuse and they get a green card, but that's really not the case from the people here who sadly have had to avail themselves of that option. It's a long, hard process that requires documentation and takes years to resolve.

As for the rest of it, yes, you should get to know the person you marry. But the consequences of not doing that are, imo, much worse than potentially having the state come after you for misgiven welfare benefits.

I agree Caladan. If anyone does even a modicum of research here on VJ or elsewhere with a google search under any one of my several immigration 'identities' (diadromous being one), they'll quickly see that I am all in support of victims escaping unnecessary grief and the onus of obligation under the Affidavit of Support where applicable. My opposing position in this particular thread is not directed at 'southernchic' on a personal level, in any way, but it is voiced in objection to the principles involved.

Edited March 5, 2008 by diadromous mermaid

[Ta Ta 1]

I saw a link of a list to all means tested benefits before somewhere here , does anyone have it ?

I guess the first thing to do is file for divorce if you want out of the marriage so any hesitation and lingering in the marriage won't be looked at as intentionally blocking the alien from adjusting status and therefore it could not be used as the abuse card. The alien does not get to adjust status

without the support and the case is closed, the alien goes home. Am I understanding that correctly ?

[southernchic 0]

[

He arrived more than 18 months ago, if I am reading your timeline correctly, so I am just wondering why you would perpetuate a marriage, knowing that you were not going to participate in the adjustment of status?

I didn't perpetuate a marriage knowing that I wasn't going to participate in his AOS. What I didn't do is allow myself to be used for the next 10 years once he arrived. If anything me not applying for the AOS was sign that our relationship had problems -- not that i was somehow victimizing this man. And let's be clear, he's not entitled to a GC. He wants to be here and to live illegally if he has to.

If you read the entire thread you'd know that as soon as he arrived, the you-know-what hit the fan because of his lies. But for some ungodly reason, I thought we could work it out. The only reason it has taken this long to separate from him was because he became ill and wasn't able to work for a period of time. (BTW - I took care of him with no reservations.) And even after that, I didn't push him to leave out of sympathy and compassion . The entire spirit of this thread is about my continued compassion for this man. As I said before, I'm not going to play the vicitim role but I believe I've given this man as much as I could bc he was here from another country. There is no doubt that he's enjoyed the fruits of my compassion for as long as he could. His time is up.

You all have answered my question and provided valuable visa/AOS information. At this this point, I don't see the need to pick a part my situation. Thanks.

[southernchic 0]

[

He arrived more than 18 months ago, if I am reading your timeline correctly, so I am just wondering why you would perpetuate a marriage, knowing that you were not going to participate in the adjustment of status?

I didn't perpetuate a marriage knowing that I wasn't going to participate in his AOS. What I didn't do is allow myself to be used for the next 10 years once he arrived. If anything me not applying for the AOS was sign that our relationship had problems -- not that i was somehow victimizing this man. And let's be clear, he's not entitled to a GC. He wants to be here and to live illegally if he has to.

If you read the entire thread you'd know that as soon as he arrived, the you-know-what hit the fan because of his lies. But for some ungodly reason, I thought we could work it out. The only reason it has taken this long to separate from him was because he became ill and wasn't able to work for a period of time. (BTW - I took care of him with no reservations.) And even after that, I didn't push him to leave out of sympathy and compassion . The entire spirit of this thread is about my continued compassion for this man. As I said before, I'm not going to play the vicitim role but I believe I've given this man as much as I could bc he was here from another country. There is no doubt that he's enjoyed the fruits of my compassion for as long as he could. His time is up.

You all have answered my question and provided valuable visa/AOS information. At this this point, I don't see the need to pick a part my situation. Thanks.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I didn't perpetuate a marriage knowing that I wasn't going to participate in his AOS. What I didn't do is allow myself to be used for the next 10 years once he arrived. If anything me not applying for the AOS was sign that our relationship had problems -- not that i was somehow victimizing this man. And let's be clear, he's not entitled to a GC. He wants to be here and to live illegally if he has to.

If you read the entire thread you'd know that as soon as he arrived, the you-know-what hit the fan because of his lies. But for some ungodly reason, I thought we could work it out. The only reason it has taken this long to separate from him was because he became ill and wasn't able to work for a period of time. (BTW - I took care of him with no reservations.) And even after that, I didn't push him to leave out of sympathy and compassion . The entire spirit of this thread is about my continued compassion for this man. As I said before, I'm not going to play the vicitim role but I believe I've given this man as much as I could bc he was here from another country. There is no doubt that he's enjoyed the fruits of my compassion for as long as he could. His time is up.

You all have answered my question and provided valuable visa/AOS information. At this this point, I don't see the need to pick a part my situation. Thanks.

southernchic,

I am not understanding you and so forgive me, but I must ask...

How do you believe he would be using you, if you submitted the adjustment of status application?

Wouldn't that give him a means to be self-sufficient, having PR and not being tied to this marriage any more? Or is it that your objection is to the terms of the Affidavit of Support, itself? That is the part that I don't understand. The USCIS offers a benefit to an alien, compliments of a USC's petition. USCIS' approach to letting foreign nationals live here, absent the request by a USC, is "NO". But if a USC says, "I want this person to come here to live with me as my husband" the USCIS provides the privilege, unless otherwise ineligible. The only requirement that USCIS has in complying with USC's request is that he or she agree to an obligation to prevent such alien from becoming an indigent in the future. Deal done!

OK fast forward a few months. Said relationship is rocky. Parties are not getting along any more. USC wants to reneg on her deal with USCIS and turn the alien out of the marriage, and such alien will not be able to remain in the USA. Why? Because the USC is not willing to follow through with the terms of the Affidavit of Support, which clearly say...this "obligation does not end with divorce".

I guess I missed if you explained what the "lies' were all about if you declared that earlier. Perhaps if I had some inkling as to whether those lies were, i.e. Did they place question as to the validity of the marriage?, then I might not be taking this stance with your particular thread. Is there a suspicion of fraud? If there is, then you have every right not to pursue AOS with the pepetrator.

If not, my sense is that a USC that has a marriage that is in a shambles thinks that they can simply not bother to adjust status, and then that's fine...but as is has been stated earlier, by doing that the alien's future is placed in a dire position, and in a case such as this one, he will have accrued so much unlawful status, that not only his residency in this country has been compromised, or a residency based upon a future partner, but also his ability to travel here as a tourist too.

[Ta Ta 1]

I really feel for you and pray that you make the decision right for you ....it is a tough spot to be in

I applaud your generous spirit and your compassion to help this man like you have. Not everyone would do that. You will know in time what

steps to take.

[southernchic 0]

[

southernchic,

I am not understanding you and so forgive me, but I must ask...

How do you believe he would be using you, if you submitted the adjustment of status application?

Wouldn't that give him a means to be self-sufficient, having PR and not being tied to this marriage any more? Or is it that your objection is to the terms of the Affidavit of Support, itself? That is the part that I don't understand. The USCIS offers a benefit to an alien, compliments of a USC's petition. USCIS' approach to letting foreign nationals live here, absent the request by a USC, is "NO". But if a USC says, "I want this person to come here to live with me as my husband" the USCIS provides the privilege, unless otherwise ineligible. The only requirement that USCIS has in complying with USC's request is that he or she agree to an obligation to prevent such alien from becoming an indigent in the future. Deal done!

OK fast forward a few months. Said relationship is rocky. Parties are not getting along any more. USC wants to reneg on her deal with USCIS and turn the alien out of the marriage, and such alien will not be able to remain in the USA. Why? Because the USC is not willing to follow through with the terms of the Affidavit of Support, which clearly say...this "obligation does not end with divorce".

I guess I missed if you explained what the "lies' were all about if you declared that earlier. Perhaps if I had some inkling as to whether those lies were, i.e. Did they place question as to the validity of the marriage?, then I might not be taking this stance with your particular thread. Is there a suspicion of fraud? If there is, then you have every right not to pursue AOS with the pepetrator.

If not, my sense is that a USC that has a marriage that is in a shambles thinks that they can simply not bother to adjust status, and then that's fine...but as is has been stated earlier, by doing that the alien's future is placed in a dire position, and in a case such as this one, he will have accrued so much unlawful status, that not only his residency in this country has been compromised, or a residency based upon a future partner, but also his ability to travel here as a tourist too.

The point of this post, which was resolved pages ago, was that I was considering applying for the AOS (out of some sense of obligation) and was wondering about it and the level of responsibility. Obviously I haven't been studying up on it over the past 18 mos. I was informed that our situation does not quality because we are separated and I am seeking a divorce. Also, in order to support his AOS I'd have to pretend that we are happy, which I am not going to do. Problem resolved. My original thinking was that if I helped him and moved on I wouldn't have to worry if he's okay. But I'm not to do it if I have to lie or if I can't cut him loose after the divorce.

Then you started using words like....abuse....withholding information......control.....reneg.....not willing to follow through....simply not bother to adjust status....

None of that applies here. Yes there were lies that would lead me to believe there was fraud. That's the problem! I said there a long time ago. It would have great if you'd actually read the thread properly before questioning and taking opposition.

[Bassi and Zainab 1]

The point of this post, which was resolved pages ago, was that I was considering applying for the AOS (out of some sense of obligation) and was wondering about it and the level of responsibility. Obviously I haven't been studying up on it over the past 18 mos. I was informed that our situation does not quality because we are separated and I am seeking a divorce. Also, in order to support his AOS I'd have to pretend that we are happy, which I am not going to do. Problem resolved. My original thinking was that if I helped him and moved on I wouldn't have to worry if he's okay. But I'm not to do it if I have to lie or if I can't cut him loose after the divorce.

Then you started using words like....abuse....withholding information......control.....reneg.....not willing to follow through....simply not bother to adjust status....

None of that applies here. Yes there were lies that would lead me to believe there was fraud. That's the problem! I said there a long time ago. It would have great if you'd actually read the thread properly before questioning and taking opposition.

southernchic,

I think you've made your decision. I understand what you are dealing with because I also dealt with similar emotions in my last relationship. The sense of duty or guilt at ending the marraige can be a strong pull to stay in a relationship that is not only hurtful but preventing you from moving forward and healing. Admittedly, your husband may have problems but he's survived all this time and he'll continue to survive. Your responsibility is first and foremost to yourself and your children. Trust God to protect him and move forward taking the appropriate steps to keep your life going. It's time to decide to finalize a divorce and be truly independent. You weren't the "cause" of his problems. You can't "fix" them or "save" him. You can pray for him. That's it. Get the divorce and wish him the best.

Z

[diadromous mermaid 36]

southernchic,

I am not understanding you and so forgive me, but I must ask...

How do you believe he would be using you, if you submitted the adjustment of status application?

Wouldn't that give him a means to be self-sufficient, having PR and not being tied to this marriage any more? Or is it that your objection is to the terms of the Affidavit of Support, itself? That is the part that I don't understand. The USCIS offers a benefit to an alien, compliments of a USC's petition. USCIS' approach to letting foreign nationals live here, absent the request by a USC, is "NO". But if a USC says, "I want this person to come here to live with me as my husband" the USCIS provides the privilege, unless otherwise ineligible. The only requirement that USCIS has in complying with USC's request is that he or she agree to an obligation to prevent such alien from becoming an indigent in the future. Deal done!

OK fast forward a few months. Said relationship is rocky. Parties are not getting along any more. USC wants to reneg on her deal with USCIS and turn the alien out of the marriage, and such alien will not be able to remain in the USA. Why? Because the USC is not willing to follow through with the terms of the Affidavit of Support, which clearly say...this "obligation does not end with divorce".

I guess I missed if you explained what the "lies' were all about if you declared that earlier. Perhaps if I had some inkling as to whether those lies were, i.e. Did they place question as to the validity of the marriage?, then I might not be taking this stance with your particular thread. Is there a suspicion of fraud? If there is, then you have every right not to pursue AOS with the pepetrator.

If not, my sense is that a USC that has a marriage that is in a shambles thinks that they can simply not bother to adjust status, and then that's fine...but as is has been stated earlier, by doing that the alien's future is placed in a dire position, and in a case such as this one, he will have accrued so much unlawful status, that not only his residency in this country has been compromised, or a residency based upon a future partner, but also his ability to travel here as a tourist too.

The point of this post, which was resolved pages ago, was that I was considering applying for the AOS (out of some sense of obligation) and was wondering about it and the level of responsibility. Obviously I haven't been studying up on it over the past 18 mos. I was informed that our situation does not quality because we are separated and I am seeking a divorce. Also, in order to support his AOS I'd have to pretend that we are happy, which I am not going to do. Problem resolved. My original thinking was that if I helped him and moved on I wouldn't have to worry if he's okay. But I'm not to do it if I have to lie or if I can't cut him loose after the divorce.

Then you started using words like....abuse....withholding information......control.....reneg.....not willing to follow through....simply not bother to adjust status....

None of that applies here. Yes there were lies that would lead me to believe there was fraud. That's the problem! I said there a long time ago. It would have great if you'd actually read the thread properly before questioning and taking opposition.

First, I'll say this gently, because I know the conflict you are facing and I know that it's not helping to consider that your apprehension or inaction over the last 18 months may have complicated what is already a difficult decision, BUT I did read everything that you've written. I've read that neither of you are "victims" that the marriage "felt legit" that "I thought we could work it out" and at the same time and in the very same thread, that you "suspect fraud" so I am thoroughly confused.

Typically, if someone has been deceived into marriage, whilst a hard pill to swallow, the "victim" that has been used knows that there is nothing to salvage, that the marriage was never "real" to begin with, at least not on the alien's part. There would be every justification for you not to follow through with adjustment of status, if that were the case. I don't think you read where I expressed this in the first place.

However, that being said, I feel it necessary to share with you that there is only one action that USCIS' considers fraud. It has nothing to do with "chatting up other females, while married" although that type of activity can be the first sign that the commitment, necessary in marriage, is absent, I'll agree. There are thousands of ill-prepared husbands and wives that compromise a marital union with such activities, but that in and of itself doesn't prove fraud. No, the action that USCIS looks for in the case is whether the alien entered into the marriage primarily for residency. And if you have any reason to suspect that, then, as I said before the choices before you should be much simpler than they appear to be at this time.

[2manypapers 0]

SouthernChic,

I wish you all the best and I am sorry that your marriage is not working out. I am in a very bad situation with my marriage and I rue the day that I signed my husband's AOS papers. I caught my husband in several lies that he 'flipped' or dismissed and are now having a devastating effect on my life. I loved my husband, but his motives were less than honorable in coming here to marry me. So, not only do I suffer the emotional loss of my marriage and my heart is broken, but I now have to suffer the consequences of a nasty divorce and the worry of the sponsorship. My husband is doing every single thing he can do to make my life and that of my young daughter miserable. I understand that you have compassion for your husband being alone in this country, but I would suggest not signing the AOS papers if you have any doubts whatsoever. Again, I am very sorry that your marriage was not all you hoped for, that is hard enough, no sense in compounding your heartache.

2manypapers

[diadromous mermaid 36]

SouthernChic,

I wish you all the best and I am sorry that your marriage is not working out. I am in a very bad situation with my marriage and I rue the day that I signed my husband's AOS papers. I caught my husband in several lies that he 'flipped' or dismissed and are now having a devastating effect on my life. I loved my husband, but his motives were less than honorable in coming here to marry me. So, not only do I suffer the emotional loss of my marriage and my heart is broken, but I now have to suffer the consequences of a nasty divorce and the worry of the sponsorship. My husband is doing every single thing he can do to make my life and that of my young daughter miserable. I understand that you have compassion for your husband being alone in this country, but I would suggest not signing the AOS papers if you have any doubts whatsoever. Again, I am very sorry that your marriage was not all you hoped for, that is hard enough, no sense in compounding your heartache.

2manypapers

Once again, and not wishing to sound repetitive, but "less than honourable motives", unless clearly for immigration benefit alone, would not satisfy USCIS' requirement to substantiate marriage fraud. I know it is sounding pedantic, and I empathise with all of the emotions, but it must be clear.

[Ta Ta 1]

I read Dm's post to suggest that the abuse card could be wrongly played in the future by him and not that you have in any way, shape or form

contributed to any abuse or control whatsoever, only that it could be played that way by him later due to the time frame. I believe she fully understands that you have been compassionate and done all you could to help this man while he was ill.

I have never known Dm pointing a finger but very objectively and from all sides think of possible routes the alien may play a card against you for some reason or another. I think that is what she was pointing out.....looking ahead for possible snares.

I hope your nightmare will be over soon and may you find your true soul mate in a bright future.

[2manypapers 0]

I rarely post of any of the forums, but I decided to answer Southernchic's post. My marriage turned out to be a MOC for the benefit of money and a green card. I do not feel I need to give the particulars of my private life in order to extend my sympathies or advise her not to sign the AOS. Southernchic did not share the exact circumstances of her husband's dishonesty with her and her situation may differ from mine.

I understand clearly that her husband could raise the abuse card, he could say or do many things and I am glad that you informed her of this, DM, because she could face this from her husband if he desperately wants to stay in the USA.

However, my advice stands, if she has doubts, of any kind, she should not, for any reason feel obligated to sign his AOS papers.

If she needs to protect herself legally, she is in a stronger position by not signing his AOS, especially if she is contemplating divorce.

My post was meant to extend my heartfelt sympathies to Southernchic and to simply say that feeling compassion for her husband's plight is not reason enough to put her own head in a noose.

This forum can be of invaluable help to so many members here that are either afraid or too embarrassed to post about the problems that they are facing. After so many months or years of waiting, legal processes and the expenses, nail biting moments waiting for approvals, it is a whole different journey when faced with endings. I feel that all who can contribute their experiences should be heard....including the emotions.

2manypapers

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I understand clearly that her husband could raise the abuse card, he could say or do many things and I am glad that you informed her of this, DM, because she could face this from her husband if he desperately wants to stay in the USA.

The only reason I addressed the issue of how waiting to file adjustment of status might have compromised the alien's right to permanent residence, and whether that could play into any action her husband might contemplate (note that I am not referring to any potential success of such an action) is due to two matters. The first is that now some time has passed and in that time the marriage has failed. Any alien could assert that without the cooperation of a USC spouse, he or she was prohibitted from achieving that which he or she may have been able to achieve had the adjustment of status application been submitted in a timely fashion, before the marriage was to die its natural death. Please note that I am not suggesting in any way, that if there were any indication that this marriage was entered fraudulently, that the alien was entitiled to a GC. In fact, the statutes stipulate that no alien is entitled to a green card if the intentions were not genuine. And if that apprehension to hold off submission of the AOS on the part of a citizen is based solely upon not wishing to be held financially responsible for an alien that could at some time become and ex-spouse is not really a right that the US citizen has. After all, the statutues clearly state that the sponsor must be willing to undertake that obligation knowing fully well that divorce does not exonerate the US citizen from the requirements under the Affidavit of Support.

However, my advice stands, if she has doubts, of any kind, she should not, for any reason feel obligated to sign his AOS papers.

Absolutely. Certainly, now she should not feel obligated to sign the AOS papers, because in doing so she would be affirming that the marriage is viable, and now, indeed, it is not. My point was more aligned with what were her reasons for delaying the AOS submission and were they sufficient enough to deny an alien the chance to continue his immigration process, even alone after a divorce if he were able. Note, also, that in no way am I suggesting that if she suspected fraud that she should feel or have felt any obligaiton to continue the process. The distinction is being made on the reasons the marriage was not going to sustain. There is a difference once again in a marriage failing due to certain incompaitbilites and a marriage failing because it was never a valid marriage in immigration terms to begin with.

If she needs to protect herself legally, she is in a stronger position by not signing his AOS, especially if she is contemplating divorce.

This is a moot point at this juncture. The marriage no longer conforms to the viability requirement for successful adjustment, if southernchic is going to follow through with a divorce. However, that is not to say that in other situations where couples separate and then reconcile, that the marriage could not be in compliance with INA requirements and success come from their later adjustment of status.

My post was meant to extend my heartfelt sympathies to Southernchic and to simply say that feeling compassion for her husband's plight is not reason enough to put her own head in a noose.

This forum can be of invaluable help to so many members here that are either afraid or too embarrassed to post about the problems that they are facing. After so many months or years of waiting, legal processes and the expenses, nail biting moments waiting for approvals, it is a whole different journey when faced with endings. I feel that all who can contribute their experiences should be heard....including the emotions.

Agreed. No one can better empathise with the conflict of emotions over these situations than I.