leaving debt behind

[SanDan 0]

It is funny how those with such high moral values on this thread would be considered by many ignorant people to have a 'mail order bride' or an economic reason for marriage; so don't judge! answer the question asked.

That was totally unnecessary.

clmarsh Posted Today, 07:56 PM

I'm sorry, but if you think that this is not true then you're flying in the face of a lot of research and evidence and yes, you are naiive.

I'd like to point out that you were the one who implied that the British are all morally bereft lowlives who think it's somehow fun to screw the financial institutions.

Wow this thread just keeps on getting "better and better". What's up with ppl getting so personal and twisting other ppl's words? That was just one example... Blah.

[LaL 418]

clmarsh Posted Today, 07:56 PM

I'm sorry, but if you think that this is not true then you're flying in the face of a lot of research and evidence and yes, you are naiive.

I'd like to point out that you were the one who implied that the British are all morally bereft lowlives who think it's somehow fun to screw the financial institutions.

Wow this thread just keeps on getting "better and better". What's up with ppl getting so personal and twisting other ppl's words? That was just one example... Blah.

I was kinda thinking the same thing SanDan. I did not mean to imply "the British are all morally bereft lowlives who think it's somehow fun to screw the financial institutions" ... not my intent at all. I was posing a question curious about why UK members thought it was all about creditors' predatory actions. Really I don't care who pays back what. I sleep at night, and I am sure others do too.

Edits again for dispicable naiive spelling

Edited February 8, 2006 by lal_brandow

[ChristinaM 0]

NOW we're on the same page! Thank you for your clarification, lal_brandow. I'm pleased that you also appreciate that the subprime sector is, quite frankly, evil. You'd be surprised how many people don't.

I don't think anyone here is advocating not paying off a loan you are able to pay, I know I'm certainly not. But I do think that it's important to consider these things in the context of someone's life - is it better to hold off on a loan where the lendor has already been paid what the original loan was (sometimes twice over), or should you pay that debt regardless of whether you can eat that week? I've done it both ways; sometimes both at once! I've paid rent and not eaten, I've paid rent and creditors and not eaten, and I've had my utilities cut off more than once because I bought groceries. I've also had a collection agency try and knee-cap me at 6am on a Thursday morning. No matter which way you play it, it's hard.

The US credit industry is seriously depraved, and I find it hard to feel much sympathy for them when the lending arm of Sears will chase the family of a dead person, threatening them with legal action (which they actually can't legally take) over a $50 debt. That doesn't mean that I don't think people should have a sense of personal responsibility. There has to be some balance between personal and lender responsibility though, in my eyes.

[Jasman0717 9]

It's called if you don't like the terms... then don't sign the contract. There's nothing preventing someone from paying cash on things. Last time I checked, everyone accepted cash. The fact of the matter is that too many people are using other people's money through credit to live a lifestyle that they cannot afford and then crying when their creditors come to collect and declare bankruptcy to get it all wiped away. Have the creditors been too fast and loose on who they issue credit to... absolutely. But that does not excuse the borrower from their responsibility to meet their obligations.

Well said, zigz. If only people listened!

Ditto

[ChristinaM 0]

It is funny how those with such high moral values on this thread would be considered by many ignorant people to have a 'mail order bride' or an economic reason for marriage; so don't judge! answer the question asked.

That was totally unnecessary.

But true. You think that's unnecessary and unfair - that's the way I feel about people who can't understand why other people get into crippling debt. Hence my passion for this thread!

(Note, I didn't make the original comment about mail-order brides! )

Edited February 8, 2006 by clmarsh

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I dont think its a case of not paying it off.... its a case of cant pay it off...

In the UK cerdit card companies are not interested in making deals with you if you are having trouble paying it off... they will only accept low payments and frozen interest if a court decides that is all you can afford... Most companies will sell your debt to another company who add their interest rate and charges and so the debt grows....

From talking to people here in the US (at work) they tell me if you contact the credit card company you can negotiatate a repayment plan... because if you tell them you cant pay anything there is little they can do to force you to pay... and after a period of time with no payments made the debt is abandoned....

cant see that happening in the UK... even the big banks send the bully boys to knock on your door everyother day for a few weeks and as long as it is before 9pm at night there is nothing you can do...

so yes UK people have no problem disliking credit companies..

Kezzie

[rebeccajo 14]

Just another little angle on this.....

Credit card companies are making money hand over fist by what I consider to be double-dipping.

Example.....

You go to WalMart and whip out your credit card to make a $100 purchase.

The credit card company charges WalMart a 'merchant fee' for processing that transaction. Probably around 2 to 3%.

Then if you don't pay the $100 bill when it comes, they charge you interest.

I have no sympathy for credit card companies. British, American or otherwise.

Edited February 8, 2006 by rebeccajo

[LaL 418]

In the UK cerdit card companies are not interested in making deals with you if you are having trouble paying it off... they will only accept low payments and frozen interest if a court decides that is all you can afford... Most companies will sell your debt to another company who add their interest rate and charges and so the debt grows....

From talking to people here in the US (at work) they tell me if you contact the credit card company you can negotiatate a repayment plan... because if you tell them you cant pay anything there is little they can do to force you to pay... and after a period of time with no payments made the debt is abandoned....

cant see that happening in the UK... even the big banks send the bully boys to knock on your door everyother day for a few weeks and as long as it is before 9pm at night there is nothing you can do...

so yes UK people have no problem disliking credit companies..

Kezzie

This is the answer I was waiting for. If this is the case, then there seems to be an inherent difference in the UK credit system vs US. Make me think that the UK's system is actually more "depraved" as clmarsh stated than the US. Again no matter, but at least I think I understand where the mindset is of the few I was confused about.

[isuckspam 0]

Barclays, HBOS, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and RBS/NatWest, the 5 largest creditors in the U.K have made a combined profit of £35 billion for 2005, which is an all-time record!

I doubt they'd miss even 5 figure debts.

All the people talking of ethical treatment of banks really need to get a grip.

[JayJay 4]

Yup. Creditors as a breed are completely unethical. They are, and I'll tell you what - I could not believe the amount of little, pointless charges they charge here in the USA vs Britain - and they add up!

My family member for example, was about 55,000 in debt because he was self employed, and had to raise four children. There came a time in which through no fault of his own, he couldn't pay, and over four months, saw his debt spiral out of control, finally hitting the 100,000 mark just a little while later...through INTEREST charges and late payments. 100,000...I kid you not!

So he, being a concientious person, decided to go for an IVA. Which he did. And ended up paying the IVA people 6000 pounds which they were saying they were giving to his creditors. Little did he know, they were not, and a few months later again, he ended up getting repeated calls from creditors asking for money...

He finally went bankrupt at about 110,000 pounds. Most of that was interest and finance charges. Financial institutions are rich. We were poor, and had to make do with what they gave us in order to be able to live. This is the state of our "giving" world today.

[rebeccajo 14]

Remember the moneychangers from the New Testament?

[kc456 0]

Barclays, HBOS, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and RBS/NatWest, the 5 largest creditors in the U.K have made a combined profit of £35 billion for 2005, which is an all-time record!

I doubt they'd miss even 5 figure debts.

All the people talking of ethical treatment of banks really need to get a grip.

I don't agree with this attitude. It's like swiping merchandise in a store thinking "They won't miss it; they have a lot of stuff." The fact that there's so much does not make swiping moral or ethical. It sounds like the poster advocates not paying back because banks are so "immoral." Student loans were also mentioned -- do they employ predatory lending practices as well? If you don't like the terms or using credit so that you can live beyond your means, then don't borrow.

[Welshcookie 17]

I dont think its a case of not paying it off.... its a case of cant pay it off...

In the UK cerdit card companies are not interested in making deals with you if you are having trouble paying it off... they will only accept low payments and frozen interest if a court decides that is all you can afford... Most companies will sell your debt to another company who add their interest rate and charges and so the debt grows....

From talking to people here in the US (at work) they tell me if you contact the credit card company you can negotiatate a repayment plan... because if you tell them you cant pay anything there is little they can do to force you to pay... and after a period of time with no payments made the debt is abandoned....

cant see that happening in the UK... even the big banks send the bully boys to knock on your door everyother day for a few weeks and as long as it is before 9pm at night there is nothing you can do...

so yes UK people have no problem disliking credit companies..

Kezzie

Sorry......

That is rubbish.....creditors DO allow low payments without going to court....in fact HSBC offered to cut my overdraft by half as long as I paid the half in full...or I could continue paying 15 pound per month,interest free. Trouble is many ppl refuse or are afraid of talking to creditors when they are unable to pay. If this is the case one should go along to Citizen's Advice Bureau who have specialized debt counsellors who will call creditors on your behalf and negotiate managable terms of repayment.

[Jaylen Brit 0]

The welshbun is right - most UK creditors would much rather accept SOME money than none at all - and the CAB deal with this situation ALl the time helping people to avoid bankruptcy. They have excellent debt counsellors who can also show people how to prioritise their debts, how to budget (all these should be taught in schools too IMO), and the fact that credit cards are often the quickest way to financial suicide for many people because they have aboslutely NO concept of frugality or living within their means.

I know MANY get into debt thru bad luck as well as bad planning (illness, divorce, unemployment - some things you just can't control I know that) but there IS life after debt and many also manage to dig their way out of it without ruining their credit records.

My mum brought me up to never borrow or lend,; well I'm not as strict about it as she was, I have credit cards and a mortgage (soon won't have as selling the house, lol) but debt always has scared the bejesus out of me and its ALWAYS cheaper to go into debt with a bank than a credit card company so I've luckily avoided any problems. My watchword was always 'if I cant afford it then i dont need it' when it comes to things like 'luxuries' too.

Ive been abroad, with virtually nothing in my pocket and gone hungry to avoid debt (often the choice was eat or have roof over head and Ive always gone for the roof) and worked some weird old jobs to keep the cash flowing too

[isuckspam 0]

Barclays, HBOS, HSBC, Lloyds TSB and RBS/NatWest, the 5 largest creditors in the U.K have made a combined profit of £35 billion for 2005, which is an all-time record!

I doubt they'd miss even 5 figure debts.

All the people talking of ethical treatment of banks really need to get a grip.

I don't agree with this attitude. It's like swiping merchandise in a store thinking "They won't miss it; they have a lot of stuff." The fact that there's so much does not make swiping moral or ethical. It sounds like the poster advocates not paying back because banks are so "immoral." Student loans were also mentioned -- do they employ predatory lending practices as well? If you don't like the terms or using credit so that you can live beyond your means, then don't borrow.

So yeh, as I was saying; get a grip.

Moralising is fine when you're in the position to do just this, a lot of people aren't.

A lot of people don't use credit to live beyond thier means, just to live.