How do I stop her immigration?

[tito 1]

"We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same. "

Absolutely. Well stated and well reasoned. There are variables, and what I've tried to do is expand the perspective of the options available. There are recurring themes, recurring fact patterns, the same countries involved, the same sort of accusations, that give a very familiar tone to some of these threads. These are the threads where things went sour, many times in a hurry. Could it be that the immigrant just doesn't understand some of the facets of life in the US? SURE! Is that "abuse"? NO! But sometimes these 'abuse' cases do stem from a lack of understanding on the part of the immigrant, who has or had expectations that were not satisfied, and their frustration manifests in different ways.

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

[pushbrk 13,800]

"We sure as hell can't tell what's going on with this couple from the few sentences Brian gave us. But most of the time, I'd be willing to bet my right arm that these sad failed marriages just plain old break down. No fraud, no abuse. They just break down. The partners in the marriage lash out at each other with different tools than what we see in a customary domestic marriage, but the shattered result is unfortunately, the same. "

Absolutely. Well stated and well reasoned. There are variables, and what I've tried to do is expand the perspective of the options available. There are recurring themes, recurring fact patterns, the same countries involved, the same sort of accusations, that give a very familiar tone to some of these threads. These are the threads where things went sour, many times in a hurry. Could it be that the immigrant just doesn't understand some of the facets of life in the US? SURE! Is that "abuse"? NO! But sometimes these 'abuse' cases do stem from a lack of understanding on the part of the immigrant, who has or had expectations that were not satisfied, and their frustration manifests in different ways.

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

Once the cohabitation ceases and/or one party declares their intention to end the marriage, the intending immigrant is forced to make some decisions about their life. If they decide staying in the USA is a high priority and they have no appropriate sponsor, they often seek advice from people who are aware that claiming abuse is about the only way they can successfully stay in the USA. Depending on their personal integrity, they may decide to pursue this avenue. All USC's that are in circumstances that may expose them to this risk, are well served to be aware and take defensive action as appropriate to their circumstances. The appropriate action could range from nothing to a a whole lot. That's for the individual to judge. Informed decisions and all....

[zqt3344 21]

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My "agenda" is to participate in discussions, and to do what little I can to help people who share the international relationship connection with me. One of the things I think I can help with is to point out a shyster when I see one.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda.

Nobody's putting words in your mouth. As I've said, one only needs to do a search on your posts to see the pattern. Single-minded hijacking of threads to advance your anti-immigrant rantings. The "New Life" thread is a perfect example. The OP wanted to know how people were coping with their new life, never mentioned abuse, and in fact nobody else mentioned abuse until you brought it up. You had to really shoe-horn it into that thread.

Again, you post only in this forum, and you post only your tirade about immigrants who take advantage of USC's. If that's not an agenda then someone please call the guy in charge of the English language and tell him it's broken.

To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office.

Maybe you could be a little more specific if anyone were to take you seriously. The other attornies and legal secretaries who post on these forums have never had a problem discussing exactly what their jobs are and what kinds of cases they work on. You, however, seem to think you're Batman, lurking in the shadows, promising us that you have all this "professional experience." My intarweb-radar identifies you as a possible intern punk who's trying to leech onto some professional cred before he's ready, but then I suppose it's possible to be a full-fledged attorney and be maliciously incompetent too. Either way, very few here are impressed.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

I agree, enough already. Stop your blathering and become a true participant in these forums instead of spewing ####### all over them. You're not helping anybody except your small following of mouth-breathing minions.

Oh and you are helping Mox? Like you are the moral authority on this, Mox, you spew and blather as much if not more than Tito. Please both of you take a time-out! And agree to disagree and show some tact. Both of you have your points which so what if they conflict it is no reason to act this way.

[pushbrk 13,800]

This is absurd. You are melding a bunch of different things together to create your OWN agenda. And I repeat the question: is it that you get your jollies seeing others suffer in failed relationshps? Or are you just anticipating what best to do in the event your relationship doesn't work out? Not clear about your agenda.

My "agenda" is to participate in discussions, and to do what little I can to help people who share the international relationship connection with me. One of the things I think I can help with is to point out a shyster when I see one.

My advice is sound. Quit putting words and ideas and sentiments into my mouth because of your own agenda.

Nobody's putting words in your mouth. As I've said, one only needs to do a search on your posts to see the pattern. Single-minded hijacking of threads to advance your anti-immigrant rantings. The "New Life" thread is a perfect example. The OP wanted to know how people were coping with their new life, never mentioned abuse, and in fact nobody else mentioned abuse until you brought it up. You had to really shoe-horn it into that thread.

Again, you post only in this forum, and you post only your tirade about immigrants who take advantage of USC's. If that's not an agenda then someone please call the guy in charge of the English language and tell him it's broken.

To clarify: I am not an immigration attorney, but the immigration issues are prevalent in my office.

Maybe you could be a little more specific if anyone were to take you seriously. The other attornies and legal secretaries who post on these forums have never had a problem discussing exactly what their jobs are and what kinds of cases they work on. You, however, seem to think you're Batman, lurking in the shadows, promising us that you have all this "professional experience." My intarweb-radar identifies you as a possible intern punk who's trying to leech onto some professional cred before he's ready, but then I suppose it's possible to be a full-fledged attorney and be maliciously incompetent too. Either way, very few here are impressed.

Sorry - but that's just the reality, no matter your particular fantasy - and that certainly manifests repeatedly. Thanks for following me around and paying so much attention to what I'm saying - I AM truly flattered - but enough already.

I agree, enough already. Stop your blathering and become a true participant in these forums instead of spewing ####### all over them. You're not helping anybody except your small following of mouth-breathing minions.

Oh and you are helping Mox? Like you are the moral authority on this, Mox, you spew and blather as much if not more than Tito. Please both of you take a time-out! And agree to disagree and show some tact. Both of you have your points which so what if they conflict it is no reason to act this way.

Things work out so much better when we all just confine our responses to the topic and avoid making them about the poster. It's so simple.

[Habilus 0]

Thank you all so much for your kind reflections and advice. We just returned from a long road trip to SanFrancisco to renew her expiring passport. I am pretty sure she will need that to get home. We got back late and I had to work today. Because her passport was surrendered for renewal, we'll have to re-schedule her biometrics appointment.

As for the spousal abuse. She is the one with the police record. Last year, in one of her outbursts, she back fisted me. I dialed 911 instantly. The police responded and verified the bruise on my face. In my up-bringing hitting a woman is a despicible act of cowardice.

I don't think she intended fraud, but rather, enduring an unhappy marriage seemed better than her life before. Her impression of America came from tv and movies. She simply can't believe westerners really work this hard. I have a full time job in high-tech and a small business. That business had suffered huge losses until recently. (no help from her, she's the laziest person I've ever met)

My goal: As soon as she realizes her immigration has been denied, try to convince her that the application was denied due to my inability to support a family. She's somewhat aware that my net worth is nearly zero because of the business. If she can just go home for a little while, I can re-apply when I have more money.

I'm not at all proud of doing this, I only wish her the best, but I have a duty to my children and myself to un-do this terrible mistake.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice. It's nice to know that some people will still take time to help others.

[pushbrk 13,800]

Thank you all so much for your kind reflections and advice. We just returned from a long road trip to SanFrancisco to renew her expiring passport. I am pretty sure she will need that to get home. We got back late and I had to work today. Because her passport was surrendered for renewal, we'll have to re-schedule her biometrics appointment.

As for the spousal abuse. She is the one with the police record. Last year, in one of her outbursts, she back fisted me. I dialed 911 instantly. The police responded and verified the bruise on my face. In my up-bringing hitting a woman is a despicible act of cowardice.

I don't think she intended fraud, but rather, enduring an unhappy marriage seemed better than her life before. Her impression of America came from tv and movies. She simply can't believe westerners really work this hard. I have a full time job in high-tech and a small business. That business had suffered huge losses until recently. (no help from her, she's the laziest person I've ever met)

My goal: As soon as she realizes her immigration has been denied, try to convince her that the application was denied due to my inability to support a family. She's somewhat aware that my net worth is nearly zero because of the business. If she can just go home for a little while, I can re-apply when I have more money.

I'm not at all proud of doing this, I only wish her the best, but I have a duty to my children and myself to un-do this terrible mistake.

Thank you for all your kind thoughts and advice. It's nice to know that some people will still take time to help others.

You make it sound like you would be trying to convince her of a lie. That might be enough to qualify as manipulation, control or even abuse. Why not simply tell her the truth, which if I understand correctly is that your marriage didn't work and you're getting a divorce. As such, you will not be sponsoring her status as permanent resident but would be happy to pay her way home and otherwise treat her honorably.

[StillThePrettiest 4]

...why ISN'T going home an option? That's my question...

and it's been answered MANY times, by MANY people, and yet here you are still asking it... I'm guessing it's rhetorical, as you obviously have no real interest in any form of answer

This is not all that difficult, and I've said the same thing in a different way now quite a few times. I hope that people can see that and understand.

strange that you expect that from others, and yet again, it somehow does not apply to you...

[Boiler 47,954]

Not that it matters, but you can not renew by post?

I do not remember needing a passport for Biometrics.

There is only so much you can do from an Immigration perspective, what you need is a Divorce lawyer.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

[pushbrk 13,800]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

If an alien wishes to remain in the USA once a marriage is no longer viable, yet the alien has not successfully adjusted status, he or she must pursue a VAWA claim. That claim is not simply approved based upon an alien's allegation of abuse by his or her US citizen spouse. It has to be documented, and supported by evidence. I am not saying that there aren't occassions when some of that evidence submitted by *some* aliens to corroborate a claim of abuse can't be suspect, and contrived, as I am sure that it can, but to suggest that an alien can be successful, just by concocting a case based solely upon a bunch of evidence that is clearly created ex facto , I do not accept!

[pushbrk 13,800]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

If an alien wishes to remain in the USA once a marriage is no longer viable, yet the alien has not successfully adjusted status, he or she must pursue a VAWA claim. That claim is not simply approved based upon an alien's allegation of abuse by his or her US citizen spouse. It has to be documented, and supported by evidence. I am not saying that there aren't occassions when some of that evidence submitted by *some* aliens to corroborate a claim of abuse can't be suspect, and contrived, as I am sure that it can, but to suggest that an alien can be successful, just by concocting a case based solely upon a bunch of evidence that is clearly created ex facto , I do not accept!

Good. Neither do I. Fortunately nobody suggested anything of the kind.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

If an alien wishes to remain in the USA once a marriage is no longer viable, yet the alien has not successfully adjusted status, he or she must pursue a VAWA claim. That claim is not simply approved based upon an alien's allegation of abuse by his or her US citizen spouse. It has to be documented, and supported by evidence. I am not saying that there aren't occassions when some of that evidence submitted by *some* aliens to corroborate a claim of abuse can't be suspect, and contrived, as I am sure that it can, but to suggest that an alien can be successful, just by concocting a case based solely upon a bunch of evidence that is clearly created ex facto , I do not accept!

Good. Neither do I. Fortunately nobody suggested anything of the kind.

I think you were here, no?

Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Or at least the term "falsehoods" suggests to me that the claimant is not conforming to the truth, and therefore lying about and concocting a case of abuse.

[pushbrk 13,800]

At this point...it's all a big 'whatever'. Nobody here knows much about the details of my personal experience, and significantly less about the breadth of my professional exposure...yet some of you make all sorts of assumptions and catapult to different conclusions. So...whatever. My personal experience is not in the least bit relevant to my professional judgment and observations that I'm willing to share here.

Back to the hard cold facts that are gleaned from my experience (yeah...a secretary throws this file clerk a bone once in a while...!)...a USC might be trying everything possible to help an immigrant spouse acclimate, and in the end, nothing is good enough. Lots of times, if things don't work out, the immigrant wants the green card and does and says anything to get it instead of contemplating a return home. The immigrant can (AND OFTEN DOES) interpret the efforts on the part of the USC as being controlling or manipulative or abusive, and uses that as a stepping stone to his or her objective.

If the parties are truly in it for a relationship, it takes commitment on the part of both to make it work. If it's all just a sham, then the USC needs to protect himself or herself. Anything and everything could be used as justification for something else.

You make a successful abuse claim sound so easy, when in fact it isn't. There can't be success if the instance did not exist.

I believe you are mistaken.

Absolutely! Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Convincing is the requirement not actuality.

If an alien wishes to remain in the USA once a marriage is no longer viable, yet the alien has not successfully adjusted status, he or she must pursue a VAWA claim. That claim is not simply approved based upon an alien's allegation of abuse by his or her US citizen spouse. It has to be documented, and supported by evidence. I am not saying that there aren't occassions when some of that evidence submitted by *some* aliens to corroborate a claim of abuse can't be suspect, and contrived, as I am sure that it can, but to suggest that an alien can be successful, just by concocting a case based solely upon a bunch of evidence that is clearly created ex facto , I do not accept!

Good. Neither do I. Fortunately nobody suggested anything of the kind.

I think you were here, no?

Judges, adjudicators and regular humans are thoroughly convinced of falsehoods all the time.

Or at least the term "falsehoods" suggests to me that the claimant is not conforming to the truth, and therefore lying about and concocting a case of abuse.

And in the case of anybody deciding to allow the self adjustment "convinced" with "evidence". False evidence, of course but the point is still that no incident of abuse need occur. The immigrant only needs to convince the proper authority an incident occured, even if it didn't . We don't have a disagreement here. Your simply misinterpreting (adding to) what I wrote.

My advice to this OP was to be prepared for an accusation of abuse. One would be much in error to infer there was actual abuse. Nobody even implied it and certainly nobody suggested a high success rate for such attempts.

Again we're discussing the difference between maybe and maybe not. The two coexist quite nicely. Actually one cannot possibly exist without the other.

Edited March 6, 2008 by pushbrk

[rue2you 0]

I like your style TITO..........CYA.

CYA from all ends....male....female...whatever. Protect thyself. And yes I have been screwed. I do love my wife though.....can't wait til she gets here.......................

Edited March 6, 2008 by rue2you