Western women with husbands from FSU countries

[eekee 182]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

Edited March 1, 2008 by eekee

[slim 1,525]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

Sure, but aren't 20 to 40-year-old Middle Eastern "man-candies" offering themselves to middle-aged, overweight American women by the thousands in much the same way Russian/FSU women are to men here?

Social taboo or modern necessity? And why the disparity?

[eekee 182]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

Sure, but aren't 20 to 40-year-old Middle Eastern "man-candies" offering themselves to middle-aged, overweight American women by the thousands in much the same way Russian/FSU women are to men here?

Social taboo or modern necessity? And why the disparity?

that's weird... i had never heard of that.

[slim 1,525]

that's weird... i had never heard of that.

If you were a man with a Russian wife you would've.

Men who have "mail-order brides" from Russia/FSU or the P.I. are almost always lopped into one group by those not in the know. The same folks tossing us in there also toss the MENA ladies in the same basket.

Edited: I actually feel worse for them (the ladies in MENA). We have to deal with "being scammed" for a greencard. They have to deal with "being scammed by Al-Qaeda" for a greencard. Plus, it's always been easier for a man to have a "trophy wife." It's never really been socially acceptable for a normal woman (not widowed by a rich husband) to have a "boy toy." Plus, women always have to deal with everyone's opinion of their relationships. Men get a free pass with "well, at least she's hot."

Edited March 3, 2008 by slim

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

Sure, but aren't 20 to 40-year-old Middle Eastern "man-candies" offering themselves to middle-aged, overweight American women by the thousands in much the same way Russian/FSU women are to men here?

First of all the term "man-candies" is such a disturbing visual that it gives me the willies

Second my sister isnt overweight she is undertall....

[Jason-Sasha 1]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

It takes a really special kind of western woman to marry a Muslim middle Eastern man. She has to give up nearly all of her equal rights. Rights that were earned through many many years of struggling and fighting. But if that's the kind of life they dream of....why not?? I recently worked with a woman who had just finished her divorce from a man from Jordan. She always had some really startling stories about being a virtual slave and living without a voice. I'll never understand the attraction. I'm sure there are some really great stories, but I only ever seem to hear the horror stories. I wouldn't dream of asking my Sasha to live beneath me, but instead beside me.

[eekee 182]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

It takes a really special kind of western woman to marry a Muslim middle Eastern man. She has to give up nearly all of her equal rights. Rights that were earned through many many years of struggling and fighting. But if that's the kind of life they dream of....why not?? I recently worked with a woman who had just finished her divorce from a man from Jordan. She always had some really startling stories about being a virtual slave and living without a voice. I'll never understand the attraction. I'm sure there are some really great stories, but I only ever seem to hear the horror stories. I wouldn't dream of asking my Sasha to live beneath me, but instead beside me.

*waiting for the women from MENA to bust into the russia forum*

[sara535 15]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

It takes a really special kind of western woman to marry a Muslim middle Eastern man. She has to give up nearly all of her equal rights. Rights that were earned through many many years of struggling and fighting. But if that's the kind of life they dream of....why not?? I recently worked with a woman who had just finished her divorce from a man from Jordan. She always had some really startling stories about being a virtual slave and living without a voice. I'll never understand the attraction. I'm sure there are some really great stories, but I only ever seem to hear the horror stories. I wouldn't dream of asking my Sasha to live beneath me, but instead beside me.

*waiting for the women from MENA to bust into the russia forum*

hahah here I am here I am!

All I am going to say is that from now on my pet name for my husband is gonna be "man candy".

well, I'll say that AND point out that most of you guys over here are very sensitive (often rightly so) to the negative stereotypes surrounding your marriages so I would think you would be among the first NOT to buy into stereotypes regarding other people's relationships. The myth of 'giving up nearly all her equal rights' is especially well, silly. My marriage is based on mutual respect, admiration and friendship. My husband makes me laugh everyday and he CERTAINLY has no interest in me living 'beneath' him or without a voice. He'd be in big trouble if he did

ok carry on

[mox 298]

True story: Some years back I was working for Lucent on a telephone expansion project in Saudi Arabia. I'd been in country for a couple of months when they sent me to Jeddah to be the technical lead on convincing some big Saudi Telecom muckity-muck that he needed to give Lucent more money for ####### they didn't need. So we flew from Riyadh to Jeddah, and the airport there is a sea of guys in white robes and red kaffiyah's, and women dressed in black from head to toe. You literally could not see a single woman's face or anything above the bottoms of their ankles. All of a sudden this woman starts yelling "Ahmad! Ahmad! AHMAD!" It was an American woman, and she had gotten separated from her husband, and was scared. So everyone is looking around trying to figure out where this woman is, but nobody could figure it out for close to a minute. I guess it got resolved because she stopped yelling, but it was at once humorous and a little sad.

Having said that, I knew a couple Saudi's married to Western women, and the women seemed genuinely happy. As you say Jason, they give up a LOT of rights and freedom (women aren't allowed to drive in the Kingdom, for example) but at least the few women I knew were happy with the decision. Which is good because the protections for women over there are limited to non-existent.

For what it's worth, I had a love-hate relationship with SA. I met some of the most kind-hearted and awesome people while I was over there, and I saw some things that left me deeply unsettled. I saw a traditional Muslim wedding, which was amazing, and I saw a man beheaded for the terrible crime of homosexuality. (not so awesome.) Spent the day with a group of bedouins who wanted nothing more than to share their meal and stories with me, and I saw two young women hauled off by the religious police for having the audacity to insist I use a vending machine in front of them. A definite mixed bag.

[Don E 0]

Not to make light of some of the things you wrote about here, but I couldn't resist the opening I saw.......

Are we to infer that some or all of your previous stories/comments were not true?

True story: Some years back I was working for Lucent on a telephone expansion project in Saudi Arabia. I'd been in country for a couple of months when they sent me to Jeddah to be the technical lead on convincing some big Saudi Telecom muckity-muck that he needed to give Lucent more money for ####### they didn't need. So we flew from Riyadh to Jeddah, and the airport there is a sea of guys in white robes and red kaffiyah's, and women dressed in black from head to toe. You literally could not see a single woman's face or anything above the bottoms of their ankles. All of a sudden this woman starts yelling "Ahmad! Ahmad! AHMAD!" It was an American woman, and she had gotten separated from her husband, and was scared. So everyone is looking around trying to figure out where this woman is, but nobody could figure it out for close to a minute. I guess it got resolved because she stopped yelling, but it was at once humorous and a little sad.

Having said that, I knew a couple Saudi's married to Western women, and the women seemed genuinely happy. As you say Jason, they give up a LOT of rights and freedom (women aren't allowed to drive in the Kingdom, for example) but at least the few women I knew were happy with the decision. Which is good because the protections for women over there are limited to non-existent.

For what it's worth, I had a love-hate relationship with SA. I met some of the most kind-hearted and awesome people while I was over there, and I saw some things that left me deeply unsettled. I saw a traditional Muslim wedding, which was amazing, and I saw a man beheaded for the terrible crime of homosexuality. (not so awesome.) Spent the day with a group of bedouins who wanted nothing more than to share their meal and stories with me, and I saw two young women hauled off by the religious police for having the audacity to insist I use a vending machine in front of them. A definite mixed bag.

[mox 298]

Not to make light of some of the things you wrote about here, but I couldn't resist the opening I saw.......

Are we to infer that some or all of your previous stories/comments were not true?

Hehe. Yes, anything I write that's not prefaced with "True Story" is an outright fabrication.

Including this post.

[Jenn! 918]

You will, however, find a lot of that going on over in the Middle-Eastern/North-Africa thread. Seems they're the yin to our yang. Try posting there. Happy hunting and can't wait to see this documentary!

I don't think that's women "acting like men" in MENA. I think it's because it's just not accepted in a lot of Muslims families for a woman to marry a non-Muslim man, and a bit more acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women. I know women who would have been disowned completely by their parents if they had dated a non-Muslim American guy.

It takes a really special kind of western woman to marry a Muslim middle Eastern man. She has to give up nearly all of her equal rights. Rights that were earned through many many years of struggling and fighting. But if that's the kind of life they dream of....why not?? I recently worked with a woman who had just finished her divorce from a man from Jordan. She always had some really startling stories about being a virtual slave and living without a voice. I'll never understand the attraction. I'm sure there are some really great stories, but I only ever seem to hear the horror stories. I wouldn't dream of asking my Sasha to live beneath me, but instead beside me.

Yes, I just couldn't resist commenting on this as well. I am far from a submissive woman and my Muslim husband and I have our relationship balanced quite well, I feel. I can't say that I really know any "Middle Eastern" men personally, but I would imagine that there are quite a few of them that break the mold. Maybe it takes a special kind of Middle Eastern man to marry a Western woman.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Jenn!

[slim 1,525]

For what it's worth, I had a love-hate relationship with SA.

It seems your love-hate relationship with the Kingdom is pretty similar to mine. I don't know if you noticed, but didn't it seem like the love tended to side with the "normal Saudis" and the hate sided with those affiliated with the Crown?

And they say North Korea has a bad human rights record! (I'm sorry... I forgot. We don't buy oil from North Korea. I'll shut up now.....................*In Arabic accent* "Thank you Mr. Bush!")

And since we're on the subject of stereotypes, I don't think it's so much that the guys in this forum really take it personally when we're "accused" of buying brides over the internet or through the mail, it's more of an acknowledgement of disgust at how ignorant Americans can be sometimes.

See above for another "ignorant Americans" subject.

[mox 298]

It seems your love-hate relationship with the Kingdom is pretty similar to mine. I don't know if you noticed, but didn't it seem like the love tended to side with the "normal Saudis" and the hate sided with those affiliated with the Crown?

You got it in one. Were you in Riyadh? I saw my first (and hopefully last) execution in "chop-chop square." The locals were so proud of their capital punishment system that they pushed me right up to the front. They wanted the Westerner to get a good look.

And they say North Korea has a bad human rights record! (I'm sorry... I forgot. We don't buy oil from North Korea. I'll shut up now.....................*In Arabic accent* "Thank you Mr. Bush!")

I'm glad to be able to say I experienced SA, but I'm somewhat ashamed of the work I did there. Unknown to me until late in the project, I was installing a computerized infrastructure that would allow wiretapping of both land lines and mobile telephones. It's the exact same equipment AT&T have in their facility in SF. Of course, the difference is that the government in Saudi Arabia don't need warrants to listen in on their citizens' calls.

Oh wait...nevermind.

And since we're on the subject of stereotypes, I don't think it's so much that the guys in this forum really take it personally when we're "accused" of buying brides over the internet or through the mail, it's more of an acknowledgement of disgust at how ignorant Americans can be sometimes.

Yep. I haven't seen a "cleaning/cooking/sex bride" thread in awhile, but the ones I read did make me chuckle.

[slim 1,525]

You got it in one. Were you in Riyadh? I saw my first (and hopefully last) execution in "chop-chop square."

I'm glad to be able to say I experienced SA, but I'm somewhat ashamed of the work I did there. Unknown to me until late in the project, I was installing a computerized infrastructure that would allow wiretapping of both land lines and mobile telephones. It's the exact same equipment AT&T have in their facility in SF. Of course, the difference is that the government in Saudi Arabia don't need warrants to listen in on their citizens' calls.

Oh wait...nevermind.

I wasn't in Riyadh but if I looked really hard through my 10X50 Steiners, I could see the caps of the big mosque.

I too can't say that I'm proud of the work I did there. I spent a lot of time guarding gates where people weren't even allowed to protest or else they would've ended up in "chop-chop square." A lot of the old-timers I was there with were over there during Desert Storm and they all recounted tales of being pushed up to the front to see the spectacle.

And now, seeing how much their society and govt. is emulating ours.... I have to say that I too am somewhat ashamed of being a part of it. But, that's how it works in govt. work. On the one hand you're "helping spread technology and civility, life and a future" to remote parts of the world but at the same time you're helping that person's rulers clench the fist a little tighter. All the while making your own rulers a little richer.

Life.