New Life

[mox 298]

Well, nice to see a few cases in point...ridiculing something about which not much is really comprehended. Of course, much depends on the sophistication of the immigrant and their background and experience. But...if you really cannot comprehend the nature and scope of the pressures and dynamics involved, how can you really comment on the issue I am raising in the first place? Obviously, it goes right over your head!

Dear gawd could you be more arrogant? Because it sounds to me that you are saying YOU are the only person here qualified to talk about this issue. You've already admitted that you're not an immigration attorney, so I don't see how you're any more qualified to talk about it than anyone else here. In fact, since you seem to have an aversion do doing things like...oh...BASIC EFFING RESEARCH...then I'd say you're considerably less qualified than most here. And when the best reply to an argument you have is "obviously you know nothing about it," then guess what? You have NO argument.

Where are there examples of immigrants going home in coffins, acts taken at gunpoint, and the like? I guess life overseas must present very, very significant drama, and there seems to be expectations that lead to warnings that lead to someone coming to such conclusions! Therein lies another problem, I suppose.

Here's something you should have learned in college: Read a newspaper. Do a Google search. I'm not going to do the research that you should have been doing instead of advancing a one-sided anti-immigrant agenda. You keep saying there are 2 sides, but you have taken the one side to the exclusion of all else. Not something an educated and informed person would do. Not something someone interested in real dialog would do. But definitely something someone with an anti-immigrant agenda would do.

Again - what might be perceived as one thing by an immigrant based on their particular view of the world isn't always the truth of the matter.

Taken completely on its own, this is a true statement. Taken as a statement to support your anti-immigrant agenda, it's scat.

There happen to be thread after thread by various immigrants from all over the place about coming to the US to face life with a monster. I'm saying that the incidence of monsters is awfully high, and that there might be another side to the story leading to the perceptions.

No Tito. You aren't saying that at all. You just got done questioning that these kinds of things even happen.

If you would care to actually READ these forums instead of looking for opportunities to leech onto every discussion that remotely fits your agenda, you would see that there are stories from both the USC and the immigrant. Again...do the basic research you should have done before forming your baseless opinions.

[David-and-Mae 15]

To the OP: I think no amount of talking and planning can really prepare either party for what is to come after we are together. We have to be patient, understanding and committed to make this work, but as you can see from the many happy couples it can be done and is worth it!

Well said... My husband and I have talked about almost anything in this world during our course of courtship/engagement and yet we still get surprised of every little thing that we discover (about each other) each and every day of our lives together. We had misunderstandings and petty-silly-non-talking times but those are the things that makes our relationship/marriage stronger and sweeter.

--Mae

Edited March 1, 2008 by David-Mae Forever

[Jeraly 4]

Me and my SO's daughter and also his mom email each other and talk about my SO, his strengths and weaknesses, and also the things that i should look forward to and be wary of when i finally go there. His mom is a great source of unbiased info about her son

Yeah I must say it has been really good finding out about our flaws as well as our virtues - Jeremy and I are quite reflective about ourselves so I have warned him of certain things that I do and ways I react in certain situations so he knows what to expect! We've spent months at a time together to get a bit of practice in but we know it will still be really hard adjusting when we first move in together - I am expecting it to take at least a year to start beginning to really settle down.

...would somebody explain to me what electricity is? is that something you use for brushing your teeth?

No no no - you have it all wrong - electricity is used to brush your hair not your teeth

For the record (as I believe some individuals would like to address background for some reason) I am a qualified teacher who lives in a $500k house, have a good education and have been brought up well. The children I teach will all know and learn that electricity is used to brush hair not teeth and my life will be fulfilling and joyous

WHAT???? It is for hair not for teeth? now i know why my teeth is still cavity filled. Pls do forgive my ignorance, after all I am a mental retard whose life present a very very significant drama .

OMG IT MIGHT BE TOO LATE!!!! You should consult your trichologist RIGHT AWAY or you could be a bald bride... of course, being a non-USC and therefore mentally retarded not to mention ignorant, I am totally unaware of the meaning of any words I use that exceed one syllable. And they have to be spelled phonetically.

[DanielParul 50]

Yupp!! thats me - the retard 'alien' SO....

and I am still confident of our relationship working out... at least the intentions cannot be doubted and neither can the effort and the love we have for each other..

Cheers to all the retard, balding, alien SOs

[Jeraly 4]

Yupp!! thats me - the retard 'alien' SO....

and I am still confident of our relationship working out... at least the intentions cannot be doubted and neither can the effort and the love we have for each other..

Cheers to all the retard, balding, alien SOs

Oh no Parul... don't tell me you thought electricity was for your teeth as well?! And you had such beautiful hair...

[DanielParul 50]

Yupp!! thats me - the retard 'alien' SO....

and I am still confident of our relationship working out... at least the intentions cannot be doubted and neither can the effort and the love we have for each other..

Cheers to all the retard, balding, alien SOs

Oh no Parul... don't tell me you thought electricity was for your teeth as well?! And you had such beautiful hair...

OMG, u people got it all wrong - U NEANDERTHALS... electricity is used to give shock therapy to us SOs

[Krikit 1,164]

Well, nice to see a few cases in point...ridiculing something about which not much is really comprehended. Of course, much depends on the sophistication of the immigrant and their background and experience. But...if you really cannot comprehend the nature and scope of the pressures and dynamics involved, how can you really comment on the issue I am raising in the first place? Obviously, it goes right over your head!

Again - what might be perceived as one thing by an immigrant based on their particular view of the world isn't always the truth of the matter. There happen to be thread after thread by various immigrants from all over the place about coming to the US to face life with a monster. I'm saying that the incidence of monsters is awfully high, and that there might be another side to the story leading to the perceptions. Perhaps...JUST MAYBE...there is some responsibility on the part of the immigrant the nature of which is something that the immigrant simply cannot fully comprehend. It takes time and commitment and dedication on the part of both parties to live within the parameters of a difficult situation to begin with. To those of you who can and do make the adjustment and have the commitment, there is absolutely no need to take everything so personally. To others coming on here crying 'foul' in every thread, maybe there's another explanation and perhaps this other point of view about the circumstances of these threads is something to consider. Things aren't always what they seem.

I'm sorry. I just had to jump in here and say....

[bakofoil 27]

Oh man, I feel compelled to comment. Many people have already expressed my sentiments but I do have a few things I would like to add.

Lots of times, when a USC meets someone outside of the US, and the relationship builds and takes form during a series of trips to that place to be with the person, and/or during phone conversations in the interim that are all about missing each other and wanting to be with the other person again, the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent.

During the months many of us spend apart I can assure you that conversations and thoughts do not merely revolve around whining about missing, wanting and needing your partner. This process is very involved and a whole host of practical considerations on both sides of the coin have to be taken into account prior to and during the application process. USCIS and DOS stipulate certain criteria for qualification for a fiance visa to counter the problems you are insinuating happen far too frequently.

Then, once thrust into the stresses of life in the US, the reality sets in, and many times, it's nothing like what the immigrant could possibly imagine, especially in instances where the way and manner and relative quality of life in one place is so different from life in the US. Naturally, there is frustration and disillusion on the part of both parties that is compounded by differences in culture, differences in education, differences in background, differences in religion, differences in experience, differences in upbringing, differences in age, differences in world-view, differences in values...differences in virtually everything except the mutual commitment on the part of BOTH persons for themselves, for each other, and for the relationship.

Actually, I do think you have a reasonable point here. Many of us are in fact aware of the difficulties faced when starting a new life in another country. Just reading around the forums here you will see many people from every country pondering and discussing the changes they will face when they finally move to the US. Read further and you will see USC's discussing ways and means of making the cultural transition easier for their partners. No one can know for certain what specific problems they will endure but at least there is a comprehension that it can and does happen. This is why this site is so useful, others can reveal the possible pitfalls and how to endure them.

With respect to all these stories about abuses and threats and such? Yeah, there's got to be another side. Many times, perhaps those posting these horror stories are too proud to capitulate and compromise, and expect the USC to be a different way, like they were during the 2 week vacation when they met and decided to be a couple. In my view, and the way I see this, and that's not to say it's the gospel by any means, the immigrant simply cannot comprehend what life is like in the US and the stresses and strains put on the USC...to get the immigration documentation in order, to make all the trips, to pay all the phone bills, to set up all the travel, to get everything in order, to maintain a heavy work load in order to afford another person in the household, to pay the mortgage, to make the car payment, to pay the gas, electricity and water bill, to pay the finance charges for the new appliances, to make sure the immigrant is comfortable enough...there's a LOT on the plate of the USC that, perhaps...just maybe...the immigrant just doesn't understand. Is that abuse? Maybe the USC feels that the failure or inability on the part of the immigrant to grasp the nature of the stresses is ALSO an abuse! And it's that frustration to which the immigrant is not accustomed is, MAYBE, what the immigrant calls "abuse".

A huge amount of assumption here and this weakens your argument. Of course there *are* instances of people visiting for just two weeks and not really thinking things through, but I do think these are the minority of cases. You don't have to have a foreign fiance to make that mistake. And, in fact, I would argue that having a foreign fiance forces many of us to over-analyse our relationships, because, why the heck would anyone want to go through any of this if it didn't feel right?

As the 'immigrant' I have planned this move to the nth degree but I realise that there are pitfalls I am not aware of yet. Hence, it is useful to read threads on this forum. During the application process I have worked my backside off so that I have money to keep me going during a period when the US government makes it difficult for K1 visa holders to work so that I can take some pressure off my USC partner financially. I am giving up a good career, my home, belongings, family, friends, a way of life I am familiar with for the person I know is worth it. If I didn't feel it was worth it I wouldn't have bothered. Really.

The same is true of my USC partner. He has used the time since we decided to get married to prepare for that. No longer will he only have himself to consider, he is building a life for us and relishes the prospect. During our time apart he has thought about the impact my moving to be with him has had on my life and he certainly wouldn't take on the responsibility of all of that if he felt it would bite him in the backside.

The fact is, we both want this and we both are having to consider all the implications of what we are doing. We talk about it - we have so much time to talk about it. Time, in my experience, you don't spend too often when you are in a relationship locally.

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

The threads about positive life changes outnumber the horror stories.

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.

We ALL bear the risk. USC and immigrant alike. The immigrant leaves his/her life behind, closes many doors. Why should the only respectable option be to return home? Why do you assume that the immigrant would choose to leech off the USC if the relationship does break down?

And onto the next post I take issue with...

Talk about fingerpainting!! Why in the world would someone with all the hopes and expectations for the future with someone who, no doubt, is your perfect mate, be cruising the part of a forum that involves conversations and posts and thread after thread where the content is mostly nothing more than DISASTER!??!?

This forum is designed for people to discuss the possible pitfalls or difficulties in adjusting. It is contradictory of you to assert that people are wrong and distrustful of their own relationships to 'cruise' here when you previously asserted that we are too caught up in whining about missing each other such that "the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent". If that's the basic premise of your argument against fiance visa immigration then you just shot yourself in the foot.

When someone says something or cries "foul" there is an entire bandwagon of sorrowful and sympathetic sorts...problem is, all the sorrow, prayers, best wishes and sympathy is based SOLELY on what the poster says at face value, without regard for another differing point of view or perspective, one that I, for one, because of what I do for a living, see all the time.

I think everyone is aware that they are reading only one side of the argument which is why it's best, in these circumstances, to stick to assisting with the immigration questions raised. Telling someone one side of the immigration story, i.e. "It is best that you go home to your country" is equally allowing personal perspective to get in the way of giving good advice.

You assume that I have an agenda, and that is absolutely not the case. You like to thump your chest and play king of the sandbox all the time proclaiming to have all the answers as you defend a very tenuous position, but just think of the FLIP side of the coin in the context of all these posts for once. If you can.

Personally I think you do have an agenda. Looking back over the thread you have ONE perspective on immigrants and ONE perspective on what they should do in the event of the relationship breaking down. Much of the content of your posts reveals a negative attitude towards fiance visa relationships. Sure, not all of them survive. No one is arguing that. Sure, no one can ever be *really* prepared for what happens after marriage - but these aspects are common to all human relationships. At least give us some credit for having thought about the choices we are making.

[bakofoil 27]

I'm sorry. I just had to jump in here and say....

Doh! If only I was as concise as you

[Krikit 1,164]

I'm sorry. I just had to jump in here and say....

Doh! If only I was as concise as you

Noooooo!!! I loved your post! I was only taking a quick peak at VJ during a break in my day, when I happened upon this thread and started laughing out loud at Tito's post (after picking my chin up off the ground). Unfortunately, I did not have enough time for a post as eloquent as yours. Thanks BabblesGirl!

[bakofoil 27]

Noooooo!!! I loved your post! I was only taking a quick peak at VJ during a break in my day, when I happened upon this thread and started laughing out loud at Tito's post (after picking my chin up off the ground). Unfortunately, I did not have enough time for a post as eloquent as yours. Thanks BabblesGirl!

Thank you . A visa immigrant WORKING???!! Say it aint so

[DanielParul 50]

Oh man, I feel compelled to comment. Many people have already expressed my sentiments but I do have a few things I would like to add.

Lots of times, when a USC meets someone outside of the US, and the relationship builds and takes form during a series of trips to that place to be with the person, and/or during phone conversations in the interim that are all about missing each other and wanting to be with the other person again, the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent.

During the months many of us spend apart I can assure you that conversations and thoughts do not merely revolve around whining about missing, wanting and needing your partner. This process is very involved and a whole host of practical considerations on both sides of the coin have to be taken into account prior to and during the application process. USCIS and DOS stipulate certain criteria for qualification for a fiance visa to counter the problems you are insinuating happen far too frequently.

Then, once thrust into the stresses of life in the US, the reality sets in, and many times, it's nothing like what the immigrant could possibly imagine, especially in instances where the way and manner and relative quality of life in one place is so different from life in the US. Naturally, there is frustration and disillusion on the part of both parties that is compounded by differences in culture, differences in education, differences in background, differences in religion, differences in experience, differences in upbringing, differences in age, differences in world-view, differences in values...differences in virtually everything except the mutual commitment on the part of BOTH persons for themselves, for each other, and for the relationship.

Actually, I do think you have a reasonable point here. Many of us are in fact aware of the difficulties faced when starting a new life in another country. Just reading around the forums here you will see many people from every country pondering and discussing the changes they will face when they finally move to the US. Read further and you will see USC's discussing ways and means of making the cultural transition easier for their partners. No one can know for certain what specific problems they will endure but at least there is a comprehension that it can and does happen. This is why this site is so useful, others can reveal the possible pitfalls and how to endure them.

With respect to all these stories about abuses and threats and such? Yeah, there's got to be another side. Many times, perhaps those posting these horror stories are too proud to capitulate and compromise, and expect the USC to be a different way, like they were during the 2 week vacation when they met and decided to be a couple. In my view, and the way I see this, and that's not to say it's the gospel by any means, the immigrant simply cannot comprehend what life is like in the US and the stresses and strains put on the USC...to get the immigration documentation in order, to make all the trips, to pay all the phone bills, to set up all the travel, to get everything in order, to maintain a heavy work load in order to afford another person in the household, to pay the mortgage, to make the car payment, to pay the gas, electricity and water bill, to pay the finance charges for the new appliances, to make sure the immigrant is comfortable enough...there's a LOT on the plate of the USC that, perhaps...just maybe...the immigrant just doesn't understand. Is that abuse? Maybe the USC feels that the failure or inability on the part of the immigrant to grasp the nature of the stresses is ALSO an abuse! And it's that frustration to which the immigrant is not accustomed is, MAYBE, what the immigrant calls "abuse".

A huge amount of assumption here and this weakens your argument. Of course there *are* instances of people visiting for just two weeks and not really thinking things through, but I do think these are the minority of cases. You don't have to have a foreign fiance to make that mistake. And, in fact, I would argue that having a foreign fiance forces many of us to over-analyse our relationships, because, why the heck would anyone want to go through any of this if it didn't feel right?

As the 'immigrant' I have planned this move to the nth degree but I realise that there are pitfalls I am not aware of yet. Hence, it is useful to read threads on this forum. During the application process I have worked my backside off so that I have money to keep me going during a period when the US government makes it difficult for K1 visa holders to work so that I can take some pressure off my USC partner financially. I am giving up a good career, my home, belongings, family, friends, a way of life I am familiar with for the person I know is worth it. If I didn't feel it was worth it I wouldn't have bothered. Really.

The same is true of my USC partner. He has used the time since we decided to get married to prepare for that. No longer will he only have himself to consider, he is building a life for us and relishes the prospect. During our time apart he has thought about the impact my moving to be with him has had on my life and he certainly wouldn't take on the responsibility of all of that if he felt it would bite him in the backside.

The fact is, we both want this and we both are having to consider all the implications of what we are doing. We talk about it - we have so much time to talk about it. Time, in my experience, you don't spend too often when you are in a relationship locally.

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

The threads about positive life changes outnumber the horror stories.

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.

We ALL bear the risk. USC and immigrant alike. The immigrant leaves his/her life behind, closes many doors. Why should the only respectable option be to return home? Why do you assume that the immigrant would choose to leech off the USC if the relationship does break down?

And onto the next post I take issue with...

Talk about fingerpainting!! Why in the world would someone with all the hopes and expectations for the future with someone who, no doubt, is your perfect mate, be cruising the part of a forum that involves conversations and posts and thread after thread where the content is mostly nothing more than DISASTER!??!?

This forum is designed for people to discuss the possible pitfalls or difficulties in adjusting. It is contradictory of you to assert that people are wrong and distrustful of their own relationships to 'cruise' here when you previously asserted that we are too caught up in whining about missing each other such that "the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent". If that's the basic premise of your argument against fiance visa immigration then you just shot yourself in the foot.

When someone says something or cries "foul" there is an entire bandwagon of sorrowful and sympathetic sorts...problem is, all the sorrow, prayers, best wishes and sympathy is based SOLELY on what the poster says at face value, without regard for another differing point of view or perspective, one that I, for one, because of what I do for a living, see all the time.

I think everyone is aware that they are reading only one side of the argument which is why it's best, in these circumstances, to stick to assisting with the immigration questions raised. Telling someone one side of the immigration story, i.e. "It is best that you go home to your country" is equally allowing personal perspective to get in the way of giving good advice.

You assume that I have an agenda, and that is absolutely not the case. You like to thump your chest and play king of the sandbox all the time proclaiming to have all the answers as you defend a very tenuous position, but just think of the FLIP side of the coin in the context of all these posts for once. If you can.

Personally I think you do have an agenda. Looking back over the thread you have ONE perspective on immigrants and ONE perspective on what they should do in the event of the relationship breaking down. Much of the content of your posts reveals a negative attitude towards fiance visa relationships. Sure, not all of them survive. No one is arguing that. Sure, no one can ever be *really* prepared for what happens after marriage - but these aspects are common to all human relationships. At least give us some credit for having thought about the choices we are making.

[Krikit 1,164]

DanielParul.... to respond to your original post....

No, I don't think you can ever be prepared for what's in store. I liken it to having children. You make all kinds of preparations and have pre-conceived thoughts and expectations, but until they actually arrive and you are immersed in it, you don't really have an idea of the reality and the emotions which will hit you.

Marrying, in and of itself, is a huge step with lots of give and take and understanding to make it work. Throw a little immigration into the mix and things can get very overwhelming. There is a learning curve with both situations. The first year is not going to be kittens and roses as the immigrant adjusts. But the realization of this fact will get you through.

[bakofoil 27]

Oh I have something else to add too...

Where does this conceited attitude come from that USC's are the only ones with the financial means to pay for phone calls, trips and the only ones filling out any documentation. I've had documents up to my eyeballs. What an arrogant point of view.

DanielParul.... to respond to your original post....

No, I don't think you can ever be prepared for what's in store. I liken it to having children. You make all kinds of preparations and have pre-conceived thoughts and expectations, but until they actually arrive and you are immersed in it, you don't really have an idea of the reality and the emotions which will hit you.

Marrying, in and of itself, is a huge step with lots of give and take and understanding to make it work. Throw a little immigration into the mix and things can get very overwhelming. There is a learning curve with both situations. The first year is not going to be kittens and roses as the immigrant adjusts. But the realization of this fact will get you through.

Brilliant analogy.

[Jeraly 4]

Yeah babbles - you did us proud - of course you have more patience than I hence my refusal to really comment on any of the utter garbage that gets talked about from time to time around here. Just one point though - if you notice, there are very few posts by the person you replied to outside of the forum... maybe this is why they perceive the immigration procedure as all doom and gloom?

On another note, I do wonder why aforementioned poster only seems to want to post in this forum and also wonder if aforementioned poster jumped into a relationship and promised marriage after a two week holiday as mentioned... I know I most certainly didn't and following a few visits actually made the effort to live for a time with my fiance as I know many other RANUSCs have.

For those of you who are (like myself) too retarded to understand the acronym and as we are very fond of them around here, the above stands for Retarded Alien Non United States Citizens. Apologies from those USCs who got it without the explanations