New Life

[DanielParul 50]

Just read too many threads talking about - got the visa - just married - isn't working out - can we get a divorce??.... I am going for my interview in a few days (not that all those threads bother me).. just make me wonder if all of us really understand the change that we will go through, the adjustments that we will need to make... How do we prepare ourselves and how much is too little or too much preparation??

We = USC and SO

Would be nice to get both parties perspective

[panamania79 2]

Just read too many threads talking about - got the visa - just married - isn't working out - can we get a divorce??.... I am going for my interview in a few days (not that all those threads bother me).. just make me wonder if all of us really understand the change that we will go through, the adjustments that we will need to make... How do we prepare ourselves and how much is too little or too much preparation??

We = USC and SO

Would be nice to get both parties perspective

Good question.I must admit that some of the horror stories do scare me a little bit.My SO is still in his country.Every time we get in a fight,I'm like OH NO.But we've come this far so I'll do my best to work it out.

[DanielParul 50]

Daniel and I talk about everything - I practically live with him already - just not physically yet.. Talk about the house, mortgage, car, job, bills, good things, bad things..

He at times tends to be a little more relaxed about me moving in with him (thats because he has everything figured out) and I have had to remind him not to show me that 'everything's taken care of' attitude coz that un-nerves me at times. He knows that now too.

Just when everything seemed to be taken care of (except, the VISA, ofcourse!! ).. He is getting deployed for a year in june.. So now we are preparing me to take care of 'me' and everything else - planning to set up direct debits for the bills, getting my DL in time, making sure I have the 'knowledge' to get around etc.. It does help that I have been to the US before and lived in the UK too, so I am not completely unaware of the problems..

I guess, right now the only preparation can be - talk talk and talk about everything, right???

[tito 1]

Any relationship must have a commitment, and the commitment must be mutual. Lots of times, when a USC meets someone outside of the US, and the relationship builds and takes form during a series of trips to that place to be with the person, and/or during phone conversations in the interim that are all about missing each other and wanting to be with the other person again, the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent. Then, once thrust into the stresses of life in the US, the reality sets in, and many times, it's nothing like what the immigrant could possibly imagine, especially in instances where the way and manner and relative quality of life in one place is so different from life in the US. Naturally, there is frustration and disillusion on the part of both parties that is compounded by differences in culture, differences in education, differences in background, differences in religion, differences in experience, differences in upbringing, differences in age, differences in world-view, differences in values...differences in virtually everything except the mutual commitment on the part of BOTH persons for themselves, for each other, and for the relationship.

There must be that level of commitment in every aspect of life for the adjustment to be viable. There must be trust, there must be compromise, and there must be understanding. In my view, those are the essential elements that underlie a relationship that works. If that triad has a weak link, the relationship is destined for a rocky road.

With respect to all these stories about abuses and threats and such? Yeah, there's got to be another side. Many times, perhaps those posting these horror stories are too proud to capitulate and compromise, and expect the USC to be a different way, like they were during the 2 week vacation when they met and decided to be a couple. In my view, and the way I see this, and that's not to say it's the gospel by any means, the immigrant simply cannot comprehend what life is like in the US and the stresses and strains put on the USC...to get the immigration documentation in order, to make all the trips, to pay all the phone bills, to set up all the travel, to get everything in order, to maintain a heavy work load in order to afford another person in the household, to pay the mortgage, to make the car payment, to pay the gas, electricity and water bill, to pay the finance charges for the new appliances, to make sure the immigrant is comfortable enough...there's a LOT on the plate of the USC that, perhaps...just maybe...the immigrant just doesn't understand. Is that abuse? Maybe the USC feels that the failure or inability on the part of the immigrant to grasp the nature of the stresses is ALSO an abuse! And it's that frustration to which the immigrant is not accustomed is, MAYBE, what the immigrant calls "abuse".

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.

[mox 298]

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.

Tito, you love to paint the pictures that fit your anti-immigrant agenda, but you're really more of a finger-painter than an artist.

Abuse isn't "misunderstanding" or the immigrant being unable to comprehend what goes into getting them over here. They're not animals, and they're not idiots who are unable to comprehend something so complex as the immigration process, phone bills, and balancing a check book.

Real abuse...the kind with the controlling and the hurting and the beating and the raping...that's the kind of stuff that no ####### really exists no matter how much you want to trivialize it, and it is overwhelmingly initiated by the USC. What interests me though, is that the OP never mentioned abuse. You had to shoe-horn it into your anti-immigrant rant...again.

And so...again...I'll remind you, as so many others have, that the immigrant isn't always free to go back to their previous lives. You make it sound so hard for the USC, and so easy for the immigrant, but that's absolutely not true, and you're being intellectually dishonest to continue to advance that line of thought despite the fact that you've been provided numerous examples and testimonials that say otherwise.

The OP has some legitimate fears. You parasited onto the OP's fears to advance your agenda. You should really be ashamed of yourself.

[tito 1]

Talk about fingerpainting!! Why in the world would someone with all the hopes and expectations for the future with someone who, no doubt, is your perfect mate, be cruising the part of a forum that involves conversations and posts and thread after thread where the content is mostly nothing more than DISASTER!??!? Is this a foreshadowing? Are you afraid of something? Looking out to protect yourself from the pitfalls that sabatoged other relationships? Or just getting your jollies? Because what purports to be advice is hardly that, and perhaps this is a bit of foreshadowing for you, which is unfortunate that you seem to sabatoge your own situation before it even comes to fruition. When someone says something or cries "foul" there is an entire bandwagon of sorrowful and sympathetic sorts...problem is, all the sorrow, prayers, best wishes and sympathy is based SOLELY on what the poster says at face value, without regard for another differing point of view or perspective, one that I, for one, because of what I do for a living, see all the time.

Have you been in the shoes of someone who was the victim of a scam, or the charm of someone who, once they come to the US, act differently from the way they acted at home? Does your business or whatever you do lend itself to experience with people who have been in those shoes? Do you have any direct, personal experience? It's quite obvious that the answer is a resounding NO! You're the one talking off the top of your extremely large head.

If you haven't walked in the shoes of the USC on the OTHER side of these these threads about the seemingly poor, defenseless immigrants who are suffering at the hands of all these terrible USC's...then you are in no position to judge.

My point that is continually LOST on you and a few others is that the picture painted by these self-proclaimed victims is that there is ALWAYS (or, if not always, then the vast majority of the time) more to the story than their perspective, which has as its foundation many cultural and social differences that just MIGHT conflict with the rigors of life in the US. Yet poster after poster writes with their sympathies without knowing either (i) the truth; or (ii) the OTHER side of the story. The same posters become judge, jury and executioner, giving the original posters all the warm fuzzies they might need, without expressing what is another option for them...to return home if things are so bad. Like I say...it's not an easy solution, but who gets the benefit? Who bears the risk? Is the brass ring that the immigrant managed to grab their ticket to life in the US as a matter of right? I don't think so.

You assume that I have an agenda, and that is absolutely not the case. You like to thump your chest and play king of the sandbox all the time proclaiming to have all the answers as you defend a very tenuous position, but just think of the FLIP side of the coin in the context of all these posts for once. If you can.

Edited February 29, 2008 by tito

[mox 298]

Talk about fingerpainting!! Why in the world would someone with all the hopes and expectations for the future with someone who, no doubt, is your perfect mate, be cruising the part of a forum that involves conversations and posts and thread after thread where the content is mostly nothing more than DISASTER!??!? Is this a foreshadowing? Are you afraid of something? Looking out to protect yourself from the pitfalls that sabatoged other relationships? Or just getting your jollies? Because what purports to be advice is hardly that, and perhaps this is a bit of foreshadowing for you, which is unfortunate that you seem to sabatoge your own situation before it even comes to fruition. When someone says something or cries "foul" there is an entire bandwagon of sorrowful and sympathetic sorts...problem is, all the sorrow, prayers, best wishes and sympathy is based SOLELY on what the poster says at face value, without regard for another differing point of view or perspective, one that I, for one, because of what I do for a living, see all the time.

The forum is "Effects of Major Family Changes on Immigration Benefits." What part of that makes this the forum where "the content is mostly nothing but disaster?" I do believe you are unclear on the concept.

Have you been in the shoes of someone who was the victim of a scam, or the charm of someone who, once they come to the US, act differently from the way they acted at home? Does your business or whatever you do lend itself to experience with people who have been in those shoes? Do you have any direct, personal experience? It's quite obvious that the answer is a resounding NO! You're the one talking off the top of your extremely large head.

No, I haven't been in your shoes. You've obviously been hurt and scammed, and quite possibly dropped on their head as a child. And I'm sorry for that. But you have a choice to make. You can learn from the experience and move on, or you can advance a bitter anti-immigrant agenda. You appear to have chosen the latter course of action. I'm not your therapist, so I'm not here to ask you to change your ways. I'm just here talking off the "top of [my] extremely large head" to call you out.

If you haven't walked in the shoes of the USC on the OTHER side of these these threads about the seemingly poor, defenseless immigrants who are suffering at the hands of all these terrible USC's...then you are in no position to judge.

I don't have to walk in anybody's shoes to spot an agenda when I see it.

My point that is continually LOST on you and a few others is that the picture painted by these self-proclaimed victims is that there is ALWAYS (or, if not always, then the vast majority of the time) more to the story... (blah blah blah deleted for space reasons)

Nobody brought up abuse and victims but you Tito. Again, to advance your anti-immigrant agenda. The OP was about fears about going through the process, wondering if they were ready for it.

You assume that I have an agenda, and that is absolutely not the case. You like to thump your chest and play king of the sandbox all the time proclaiming to have all the answers as you defend a very tenuous position, but just think of the FLIP side of the coin in the context of all these posts for once. If you can.

I don't have to assume anything. All one needs to do is use the forum search utility on your username and peruse your posts. It's right there for the world to see.

And the only answer I purport to have is the answer to the question "What is Tito up to now?"

Edited February 29, 2008 by mox

[rebeccajo 14]

Any relationship must have a commitment, and the commitment must be mutual. Lots of times, when a USC meets someone outside of the US, and the relationship builds and takes form during a series of trips to that place to be with the person, and/or during phone conversations in the interim that are all about missing each other and wanting to be with the other person again, the reality of life and the challenges that exist often get ignored to a certain extent. Then, once thrust into the stresses of life in the US, the reality sets in, and many times, it's nothing like what the immigrant could possibly imagine, especially in instances where the way and manner and relative quality of life in one place is so different from life in the US. Naturally, there is frustration and disillusion on the part of both parties that is compounded by differences in culture, differences in education, differences in background, differences in religion, differences in experience, differences in upbringing, differences in age, differences in world-view, differences in values...differences in virtually everything except the mutual commitment on the part of BOTH persons for themselves, for each other, and for the relationship.

There must be that level of commitment in every aspect of life for the adjustment to be viable. There must be trust, there must be compromise, and there must be understanding. In my view, those are the essential elements that underlie a relationship that works. If that triad has a weak link, the relationship is destined for a rocky road.

With respect to all these stories about abuses and threats and such? Yeah, there's got to be another side. Many times, perhaps those posting these horror stories are too proud to capitulate and compromise, and expect the USC to be a different way, like they were during the 2 week vacation when they met and decided to be a couple. In my view, and the way I see this, and that's not to say it's the gospel by any means, the immigrant simply cannot comprehend what life is like in the US and the stresses and strains put on the USC...to get the immigration documentation in order, to make all the trips, to pay all the phone bills, to set up all the travel, to get everything in order, to maintain a heavy work load in order to afford another person in the household, to pay the mortgage, to make the car payment, to pay the gas, electricity and water bill, to pay the finance charges for the new appliances, to make sure the immigrant is comfortable enough...there's a LOT on the plate of the USC that, perhaps...just maybe...the immigrant just doesn't understand. Is that abuse? Maybe the USC feels that the failure or inability on the part of the immigrant to grasp the nature of the stresses is ALSO an abuse! And it's that frustration to which the immigrant is not accustomed is, MAYBE, what the immigrant calls "abuse".

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.

Bitter....table for one...........

[DanielParul 50]

The whole point of this discussion is to have a constructive feedback to help the USCs and their SOs to better understand and prepare themselves for the big changes ahead in life. Just because someone reads 'the disaster stories' does not mean thats what they expect later on. They probably want to eliminate any fear or doubts they have.. The fear of change is true for both the USC and their SO...

I have not been hurt before, nor have I hurt anyone - I certainly don't intend to start with my marriage and I know for certain my fiance doesn't either... However there are times when things can go wrong and 2 people living together can get frustrated with...ummmm... the everyday monotony, cultural differences, communication gap (whatever we may call it). How would you cope with it or getting back to the topic - prepare for your new life???

[forchika 4]

There must be that level of commitment in every aspect of life for the adjustment to be viable. There must be trust, there must be compromise, and there must be understanding. In my view, those are the essential elements that underlie a relationship that works.

I agree with this perspective totally along with keeping an open line of communication.

the immigrant simply cannot comprehend what life is like in the US and the stresses and strains put on the USC...to get the immigration documentation in order, to make all the trips, to pay all the phone bills, to set up all the travel, to get everything in order, to maintain a heavy work load in order to afford another person in the household, to pay the mortgage, to make the car payment, to pay the gas, electricity and water bill, to pay the finance charges for the new appliances, to make sure the immigrant is comfortable enough...there's a LOT on the plate of the USC that, perhaps...just maybe...the immigrant just doesn't understand.

I often wonder if my husband truly understands this as I was feeling this exact same way just the other day. I agree that it's alot on the plate of the USC. What makes me feel better about it is knowing that if he was the USC and I was the Immigrant he would do the same for me. It also makes me feel better to know that we have a plan in place and it won't be this way forever and he shows me that everyday by going to school and working to one day be a better provider for his family and doing what he can to help contribute.

All these horror stories about abuse, control, threats, arise out of the perception on the part of the immigrant. Maybe life in the US is just a little too tough for the immigrant, much more so than they might have imagined...

If you are the USC or the Immigrant and you show traits of being abusive, controlling and threathning the immigration process is not for you. It will never work!!!!!

Again - who bears the risk? Who is "right"? What are the options? Who gets the benefit of the doubt? The USC on the hook for 10 years if the immigrant wants to stay, so that the USC bears all the risk of the relationship? Or the immigrant who has the option of going back home to re-establish his or her life as he or she knows, in which case everyone is put back into their original position before the relationship fell apart (no harm - no foul)? Tough issue.lor]

Take it as a lesson learned just like all your other relationships, look deeply at your self for the things that you have control over that could have been adjusted and move on with life........

[sara..... 371]

The whole point of this discussion is to have a constructive feedback to help the USCs and their SOs to better understand and prepare themselves for the big changes ahead in life. Just because someone reads 'the disaster stories' does not mean thats what they expect later on. They probably want to eliminate any fear or doubts they have.. The fear of change is true for both the USC and their SO...

I have not been hurt before, nor have I hurt anyone - I certainly don't intend to start with my marriage and I know for certain my fiance doesn't either... However there are times when things can go wrong and 2 people living together can get frustrated with...ummmm... the everyday monotony, cultural differences, communication gap (whatever we may call it). How would you cope with it or getting back to the topic - prepare for your new life???

I have worried about how perviz will feel once he is really here in the states......his dad has traveled many times to the states but perviz has only been in kashmir and saudi.....i dont think any amount of talking can prepare a person for the change........so i spend a lot of time trying to see things thur his eyes and how it would feel.....maybe much the same way i felt when i went with my family from usa life to life in pakistan......sooooo.... i have decided that it is my responsibility to be understanding, and not become irritated with things he may not understand but to be supportive to him and help to guide him on the way that life is here also he will be meeting most of my family for the first time when he gets here so that is going to be really mmm interesting as there are a LOT of us......i think that as we are the ones giving the application for them that it is our job to try to understand how they are feeling.....this means not worrying about how we feel at that time because it is not our life that has taken the drastic change it is theirs.,,guess i have not added much to this topic but these are the things running thru my head......perviz does not think it will be hard to adjust.....but i want to be prepared just in case it is harder than he thinks it will be.......

[shawna7 4]

I'm simply going to stay with the original topic..

No matter what we **think** its going to be like..its a hard adjustment..PERIOD. for both!

The SO is completely changing their life..friends, family, work ..its a complete life change..add children in there..and now you have more than 1 SO in upheaval.

The USC..absolutely has HUGE things to deal with..taking the responsibility for 10 years for another person is no small feat.

With all that said there are things that can lessen the burden on both parties..and yes..communication is KEY

It hurts my husband how much I miss home, but by feeling my hurt and trying to understand it..helps me deal with it

heres where I think things can get tricky...

The USC's life hasn't **changed** the way the SO's does.. the SO in essence is stepping into the USC's life.. and its up to both parties to understand this..and work together to build something NEW.. if the USC tries to continue on as **business as usual** the SO will feel lost..the last thing anyone needs is a lost SO..lol we have enough to deal with already

OK..I think my ramble is done..

for now..LOL

S

[Zee Bee 61]

My fiance and I talk about everything, about how our lives are going to change and what we need to do to make sure we get through this in one piece. There are just some things that will unfold, no matter how much you talk about it. I think the key is to talk about it so that when you encounter it, it will be more like a gentle reminder, like "Oh yeah, we said this might happen" so that it is not too shocking when it happens.

[CarolynRitesh 0]

Phew! Good topic of discussion...

This is going to be a big change for both me and my husband on so many levels! Having lived in India for the last three years, we BOTH will be going through some culture shock, I can only hope that since this is my 4th experience of it, and my second with 'reverse' culture shock, things will be easier - or at least a little more predictable!

Some of the things we have thought/talked about:

In India, we live very well and both earn great salaries - we can go anywhere, do anything, and we don't have to worry about the expenses. My company pays for my apartment, transportation, food at work, etc. Even when I had to go through 2 surgeries last summer, if I had not had insurance, we could have easily covered that. In the States on the other hand, we will be starting over from scratch, and will have to budget, either pay extremely large amounts of money for private insurance until we get some through work (that is IF we can get insurance privately!) or risk going without it until we find jobs... Sorry, just saw Sicko, feeling a little paranoid!

He has mentioned that it will be hard to be in a place where you don't know how to 'get things done' - he knows the ins and outs of the system here for everything, or has family and friends who do - and in the US, he will be disoriented for awhile - that will be difficult. He has had a small taste of that in Bangalore, where not many people speak Hindi, and he doesn't speak Kannada, but it will definitely be different in the US. Thank goodness he speaks English well, has been working with people in the US and UK for 6 years, and is pretty established in his career! (I am more worried about finding a good job for myself than I am for him!)

He doesn't seem to worry about it too much, but I think it will be important for him to find a place to live with an Indian community - hear Hindi, speak to people who understand him and he can be 'himself', eat some pani puri and chaat, talk about how wonderful Delhi is, be mystified by the strange things Americans do, etc. (Maybe this is just something that Americans do when living abroad, but I have found that having a group that you can hang out with at least occasionally helps!)

His family is really important to him (in a way that is different for most Americans), and being farther than a 2.5 hour plane ride will be hard on him - but thank goodness for Skype, Googletalk, etc.! I think it would be a lot harder if he had not already been living away from them for 3.5 years, but it will be that much more strange to have those daily talks with Mom at odd hours of the day and night...

I am really excited to show him the US, not just the US of movies and television and news, but the little unique pockets of the country - if there are any left! I am really sad to think about moving back to the land of strip malls and row upon row of sameness, but then we have TGIF, Ruby Tuesday and now a Hard Rock Cafe here, so he has seen a tiny taste of that...

I was just remembering back to our 2nd Christmas together when we had a group of North Americans over for the day, and him being really quiet. Afterwards, he told me that it was sometimes hard to follow our conversation as it was riddled with references to old tv shows or things we had done as kids that just didn't relate to/connect to the Indian experience - how could someone 'get' all that? I do worry that he will face discrimination or will face some kind of racism. I know that he HATES it when even the mere possibility of him marrying me for a Green Card comes up anywhere (we found some visa interview questions that boggled the mind!), and he hates that anyone could assume that because he is from India that he must be poor, etc. (Lots of ignorant people in this world!)

Even something as basic as working in the same company, seeing each other for breaks or dinners at work - that will be odd as we probably won't work together in the US, won't have the same shared knowledge of the people or experiences to laugh about...

Wow, I could go on and on - better stop for now, but I am sure that I will have more things that pass through my mind over the coming weeks and months!

Great idea to post this, would love to hear from people as they are going through the transition process!

[Jeraly 4]

I *know* we will fight and I *know* I will find it hard to adjust but I also *know* that I am making the right decision in moving. I also know that at the end of the day we can always move back to the UK together. We have known each other almost 7 years and have been a couple for 2 1/2 years - we have fought through so much to get this far that I know we can work through any problems we come across

In terms of the cases you read in this forum, I have no fear of that from Jeremy. Some may call me naive but I call it trust - I am sure many of the people who have posted horror stories here felt the same way I do which is what makes it so sad