Potential Employer Refused NOA1

[katand7 0]

My husband and I got married in May of 2005. He got his greencard that same year in October and began working. No problem. He now has two jobs, one at a warehouse and one at the local Best Buy store. Living on Cape Cod year round is tough in the off season because once Christmas is over business tanks and my husband, who usually will work 4-5 nights a week, is lucky to get one night a week. So another store in the mall, Sears, actually approached him and offered him a job in their electronics department. They pay commission and Best Buy doesn't so we thought that maybe this would be a good move. Especially as Best Buy cuts their staff down a couple of times a year and Sears seems to be more consistent with their staffing plans. (This was in December). So Gavin filled out all the online information and went to an interview. About a month or so later he got called for a second interview. At this interview they basically hired him and sent him for a pre-employment drug screening and physical. The next day he calls the human resources manager and she tells him that the papers he gave them showing he is allowed to work (he gave them a copy of his greencard and also a copy of NOA1 and even copy of biometrics) were not enough. Unless he has a "valid" greencard they won't hire him.

I am totally outraged right now. I don't think the NOA1 could state more clearly that it extends his right to work and travel for one year. Date of NOA1 is early November 2007. Does anyone have any ideas of what we can do? He just recently travelled outside the US and has his passport and all to show that he was let back in the country. (Not to mention he's physically here and he wouldn't be had they denied him!) IF they had another reason for not hiring him then whatever. But they actually told him the whole reason was that he can't prove that he can legally work in the US.

I almost want to contact a lawyer because he is being discriminated against. We have done everything appropriately and legally and this is what we get? It sucks.

Not to mention that based on our filing dates and going through VSC I still think we are looking at June or July before he gets his new card.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If this thread should be posted somewhere else, please tell me. I just didn't know where to go but here.

Thanks,

Kathleen

[zyggy 9]

My husband and I got married in May of 2005. He got his greencard that same year in October and began working. No problem. He now has two jobs, one at a warehouse and one at the local Best Buy store. Living on Cape Cod year round is tough in the off season because once Christmas is over business tanks and my husband, who usually will work 4-5 nights a week, is lucky to get one night a week. So another store in the mall, Sears, actually approached him and offered him a job in their electronics department. They pay commission and Best Buy doesn't so we thought that maybe this would be a good move. Especially as Best Buy cuts their staff down a couple of times a year and Sears seems to be more consistent with their staffing plans. (This was in December). So Gavin filled out all the online information and went to an interview. About a month or so later he got called for a second interview. At this interview they basically hired him and sent him for a pre-employment drug screening and physical. The next day he calls the human resources manager and she tells him that the papers he gave them showing he is allowed to work (he gave them a copy of his greencard and also a copy of NOA1 and even copy of biometrics) were not enough. Unless he has a "valid" greencard they won't hire him.

I am totally outraged right now. I don't think the NOA1 could state more clearly that it extends his right to work and travel for one year. Date of NOA1 is early November 2007. Does anyone have any ideas of what we can do? He just recently travelled outside the US and has his passport and all to show that he was let back in the country. (Not to mention he's physically here and he wouldn't be had they denied him!) IF they had another reason for not hiring him then whatever. But they actually told him the whole reason was that he can't prove that he can legally work in the US.

I almost want to contact a lawyer because he is being discriminated against. We have done everything appropriately and legally and this is what we get? It sucks.

Not to mention that based on our filing dates and going through VSC I still think we are looking at June or July before he gets his new card.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If this thread should be posted somewhere else, please tell me. I just didn't know where to go but here.

Thanks,

Kathleen

Tell the EEOC and the Business Liasion of the Department of Justice would love to speak with him on his discriminating against legal workers. If that doesn't work, then report the employer.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

That Sears person has no clue what she is doing. If your husband got the letter extending his permission to work for 1 year while case is processing, that's that. I would go and kick her azz if I wasn't so far away . Re-read the form I-9 (that's the one, ain't it folks?) and don't let her walk over you guys!

[Kez/JWolf 6]

All he need to prove he can work and complete the I-9 is a unrestricted SSN and a state ID or DL... the employer can not demand to see the greencard...

He sould get in touch with them and refer them to the Employers handbook for the I-9....

Kez

[payxibka 10,045]

I don't think it is discrimination as much as it is ignorance.... however, ignorance of the law is not an acceptable defense...

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I don't think it is discrimination as much as it is ignorance.... however, ignorance of the law is not an acceptable defense...

Ditto. Never attribute to evil what can be equally explained by stupidity.

[Live By Faith 0]

I do agree 100 % gang.....

Many of the "ignorant" folks choose not to read the letter of the law, but just want to use the lack of "Green Card" as a refusal to hire the "LEGAL" imigrants.....

For what's its worth, I'd talk to a lawyer, but that might end up with huge cost and not worth at all....

I personally have seen many times in our company, that hiring managers can pretty much do anything without the fear of consequences, becuase higher muckty mucks don't have time to look into "simple" issues....

hang in there and try another store.....

[katand7 0]

Well I called up the human resources department at Sears and spoke with the woman who Gavin had been dealing with. I haven't gotten that infuriated with anyone in a long time. I have never heard so much backpedaling and statement qualifying in my life.

She (of course) blamed the whole thing on the higher ups and said they wanted more proof, such as the "online status" of the case that is mentioned in the bottom part of the NOA1. I tried explaining to her that an NOA1 is a receipt letter that lets you know they have gotten your filing. There is no other case information available. Unfortunately I didn't have NOA1 in front of me, but it must say something down toward the bottom about "online status" and "ASC" because that is all she kept repeating. I kept reiterating that the letter he provided states what form was filed and received and that he eligible to work and travel for one year from the date of the letter. She still did not get it.

She tried to tell me that USCIS now issues a temporary greencard when one is expired and we needed to find out about why he didn't get that. That is when I totally lost it. And then she starts yammering on about J-1s etc. Then she comes out with the statement: "Well this form that they sent you isn't on our list of acceptable forms for proof of employment status and furthermore its just a piece of paper. It isn't on letterhead or anything" -- like I control what paper/logo/whatever the USCIS uses to send out their notices on. I told her that I have a stack of USCIS notices, starting in 2004, and they are all on the same paper, which is watermarked in the middle.

Then she started blaming Gavin. Saying oh he didn't even seem to understand what I was talking about and he wasn't even sure if he had filed what was required. She went on to say that it says on the notice to file additional paperwork, but that additional stuff is just the required evidence that you are told in the instructions to include, such as proof of relationship and all that etc. which we filed with the removal of conditions. She said that maybe her higher ups would need a copy of what we filed and I told her in no uncertain terms that I wasn't giving them 100+ pages of our personal information. (Not to mention that I could throw anything in a pile and give it to them, what would that prove?!) Oh and then she said that since I wasn't on the call she had with Gavin then I couldn't possibly even know what she said - basically insinuating he was lying to me. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Oh and then she tried to explain to me what "conditional" means. If you could throttle someone through the phone it would have happened then and there.

Finally at the end she said, "Well neither myself or any of the supervisors have ever even seen this form before and it isn't on our list." So I tried to make the point that their lack of understanding of the process isn't my problem and shouldn't be my husband's problem. He is legally employable, as is clearly stated in the NOA1, and for them to deny him employment based on his immigration status is wrong. Then she went off on a tangent saying that they could deny employment to anyone at their discretion for any reason and that they "conditionally" made him an offer on the basis he could prove his status and pass the drug screening and physical (which I know for a fact is not the issue because they had the results back from that already when they brought up the immigration stuff).

So at the end she said she would resubmit the stuff to the higher ups but it probably wouldn't make a difference if we didn't give them a printout of the online status of the case. I told her that if they didn't accept the USCIS document we provided as proof of his legal employability then she hadn't heard the last of me. At which point she said she would call Mr. Jackson whenever she had more information to give him. Which probably means she was going to promptly hang up and write a big NO on his file. He'll get a call in a few days saying they don't have anything available, keep his application on file, blah blah blah.

I'm at work right now. If anyone has their NOA1 could you possibly type in what it says in the body of the letter. I am really curious what they are reading and interpreting in this way.

Thanks again,

Kathleen

Edited February 28, 2008 by katand7

[tweety 1]

Sorry to hear about your work trouble. Hope you get it sorted soon.

But thank you for posting "your story". There is a lot of ppl on this board who think job search is no problem with the NOA1 from Removing Conditions. This will show them that indeed it may cause a lot of problems.... Thanks again for posting!

[Spiderette 0]

I'm at work right now. If anyone has their NOA1 could you possibly type in what it says in the body of the letter. I am really curious what they are reading and interpreting in this way.

Thanks again,

Kathleen

Upon receipt of your ASC appointment notice, you can find the status of your case online at www.uscis.gov. To view the status of your case, enter the application number found at the top of the ASC appointment notice. Note: the I751 form type will be listed as "CRI89" under the application type in our case status on-line tool.

[zyggy 9]

Kezzie:

I did mention the I-9 part that you said and all she said was that they can ask for any documents they want. The I-9 has nothing to do with it. (sorry my rant was so long before I can't believe I left anything out!!!)

And this is a person whose job it is to deal with "human resources" - unbelievable!!!!! (well unfortunately it is not unbelievable, just scary!!)

Kathleen

Actually the INA says otherwise...

The following is from The USCIS Handbook for Employers

General Provisions

The anti-discrimination provision of the Act, as amended, prohibits four types of unlawful conduct: (1) citizenship or immigration status discrimination; (2) national origin discrimination; (3) unfair documentary practices during the Form I-9 process (document abuse); and (4) retaliation. The Office of Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices (OSC), part of the United States Department of Justice Civil Rights Division, enforces the anti-discrimination provision of the INA. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), as amended, also prohibits national origin discrimination, among other types of conduct. The United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) enforces Title VII.

As discussed further below, OSC and EEOC share jurisdiction over national origin discrimination charges. Generally, the EEOC has jurisdiction over larger employers with 15 or more employees, whereas OSC has jurisdiction over smaller employers with between 4 and 14 employees. OSC’s jurisdiction over national origin discrimination claims is limited to intentional acts of discrimination with respect to hiring, firing, and recruitment or referral for a fee, but the EEOC’s jurisdiction is broader. Title VII covers both intentional and unintentional acts of discrimination in the workplace, including discrimination in hiring, firing, recruitment, promotion, assignment, compensation, and other terms and conditions of employment. OSC has exclusive jurisdiction over citizenship or immigration status discrimination claims against all employers with four or more employees. Similarly, OSC has jurisdiction over all document abuse claims against employers with four or more employees.

Types of Employment Discrimination Prohibited Under the INA

Document Abuse

Discriminatory documentary practices related to verifying the employment eligibility of employees and the Form I-9 process are called document abuse. Document abuse occurs when employers treat individuals differently on the basis of national origin or citizenship status in the Form I-9 process. Document abuse can be broadly categorized into four types of conduct: 1) improperly requesting that employees produce more documents than are required by the Form I-9 to establish the employee’s identity and work authorization; 2) improperly requesting that employees produce a particular document, such as a “green card,†to establish identity or work eligibility; 3) improperly rejecting documents that reasonably appear to be genuine and belong to the employee presenting them; 4) improperly treating groups of applicants differently when completing the Form I-9, such as requiring certain groups of employees that look or sound “foreign†to produce particular documents the employer does not require other employees to produce. These practices may constitute unlawful document abuse and should be avoided when verifying employment eligibility. All work authorized individuals are protected against this type of discrimination. The INA’s prohibition against document abuse covers employers with 4 or more employees.

Citizenship Status Discrimination

Citizenship or immigration status discrimination occurs when an employer treats employees differently based on their citizenship or immigration status in regard to hiring, firing, or recruitment or referral for a fee. U.S. citizens, recent permanent residents, temporary residents under the IRCA legalization program, asylees, and refugees are protected. An employer must treat all of these groups the same. Subject to limited exceptions, the INA’s prohibition against citizenship or immigration status discrimination covers employers with 4 or more employees.

National Origin Discrimination

This form of discrimination occurs when an employer treats employees differently based on their national origin in regard to hiring, firing, or recruitment or referral for a fee. An employee’s national origin relates to the employee’s place of birth, country of origin, ancestry, native language, accent, or because he or she is perceived as looking or sounding “foreign.†All work-authorized individuals are protected from national origin discrimination. The INA’s prohibition against intentional national origin discrimination generally covers employers with 4 to 14 employees.

Retaliation

Retaliation occurs when an employer or other covered entity intimidates, threatens, coerces, or otherwise retaliates against an individual because the individual has filed an immigration-related employment discrimination charge or complaint; has testified or participated in any immigration-related employment discrimination investigation, proceeding, or hearing; or otherwise asserts his or her rights under the INA’s anti-discrimination provision.

You need to call the USCIS Office of Special Counsel at 1-800-255-7688 and get them to call this lady up and set her straight. I have a feeling a call from them will put the fear of God into her.

And a link to the USCIS Handbook for Employers

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/m-274.pdf

Edited February 28, 2008 by zyggy

[katand7 0]

Kezzie:

I did mention the I-9 part that you said and all she said was that they can ask for any documents they want. The I-9 has nothing to do with it. (sorry my rant was so long before I can't believe I left anything out!!!)

And this is a person whose job it is to deal with "human resources" - unbelievable!!!!! (well unfortunately it is not unbelievable, just scary!!)

Kathleen

[zyggy 9]

ALso.. you can't call... your husband has to call since it was him who was discriminated against.

[katand7 0]

I'm at work right now. If anyone has their NOA1 could you possibly type in what it says in the body of the letter. I am really curious what they are reading and interpreting in this way.

Thanks again,

Kathleen

Upon receipt of your ASC appointment notice, you can find the status of your case online at www.uscis.gov. To view the status of your case, enter the application number found at the top of the ASC appointment notice. Note: the I751 form type will be listed as "CRI89" under the application type in our case status on-line tool.

Thank you SO MUCH for quoting this for me!!!

My understanding is that this is only if we get an interview appointment that any status will be online. I tried explaining that an appointment in this type of case is rare and we can't access anything yet (and if we can I'm totally surprised because many threads here have stated otherwise!) If there is a way for me to check status now then I'll do it, although not for these bastards, for my own personal knowledge!!!

Kathleen

[katand7 0]

ALso.. you can't call... your husband has to call since it was him who was discriminated against.

Thanks so much. I printed off a couple of key pages and I will have my husband call. I already talked to him and since he is at work right now, and so am I, we will discuss our plan of action tonight and proceed tomorrow.

I definitely think the whole "document abuse" section applies here. He has a valid state issued drivers license and social security card. He provided those.

Even if my husband doesn't get the job there, and why would he even want it if he has to work with these types of idiots, I'm still going to pursue this because I sure don't want anyone else to have to go through this. Online forms and questionnaires, two in person interviews, and a physical exam and drug screening - all for what?! It sure was never a secret where he was from and he already is employed here in the states by other companies. DUH!

Why should they even care as long as they don't knowingly hire an illegal. All the documents my hubby has presented say he is legal. If it later turned out they weren't legit or whatever, that would be on him, not them.

Kathleen