Will my ignorance be deemed immigration fraud?

[Eric_and_Corinna 0]

I made the mistake of reading the link about some poor guy who has been battling with USCIS for 8 years trying to get his Japanese wife back. Apparently they filed for a K-1, didn't get it in time, married in Hawaii anyway, and then she entered the US with the K-1 visa (but already married). Anyway, the USCIS charged them with immigration fraud and banned her from entry for 10 years. TI guess the jist of this is that they knew the rules and knowlingly allowed her in without the correct visa. Here is the story that I read last night

http://www.usforacle.com/home/index.cfm?ev...3b-e3e9d3edddd7

So this got me thinking about my case. And probably worrying way too much, hopefully.

In our case, we were completely oblivious to immigration laws and rules. We both figured, that when you married an American citizen you were allowed to live in the US. I knew that we eventually had to get my wife a social security number for her to work, but had no idea about the different visas or what they meant. Stupid, I know, but we were completely ignorant of immigration laws. We didn't have a visa of any sort when we married in Hawaii last January, and didn't know we were in violation until we tried to get back into the US after visiting Canada last June. My wife was in the US for 1 month and a half after our wedding, went home to Ontario for a couple weeks to visit family, then came back to the US for three months before we were finally denied entry by CBP. We were given the I-275 form and told that she couldn't come back, even for a visit, until visa was in hand. The CBP officer who denied our entry told us that the denial would not affect our immigration approval, and that it was if we had never attempted to get her into the US. A lawyer we consulted with agreed with that and said that if we had appeared before an immigration judge, that would have been another matter.

Since being told we needed the visa, she went back to her parent's house in Ontario, and we immediately applied for the K-3 Visa. I have commuted back and forth since June, basically visiting for a month and returning to the US for a month. Our son was born in August in Ontario and we got him his dual citizenship and US Social Security number. We are still waiting on our I-129F and I-130 approvals from the CSC (like a lot of other folks).

After reading the terrible story of the guy trying to get his wife back, I'm very frightened that USCIS would look at our ignorance and deem that we were committing immigration fraud as well. I feel like any rational person would look at our situation and see that we are very much in love and had no intention of breaking any laws, but rational thought and the US government seem to be like oil and water sometimes. Is our situation rare, or are there other experiences that are like ours? I feel like if we're going to get denied now, I may as well start looking at moving to Canada, rather then wasting our time with a process that will most likely end up in denial.

Thanks for listening...

[Reba 2]

Your situation is nowhere near rare, it happens every day in fact.

It is unlikely that your wife's visa application will be denied, the only thing on her record at the moment is a denial of entry, which also happens every day (to several of us here at VJ even)

Ignorance of the law is rarely a good defence, however technically as she was not sent to court or told that she was barred from entering for X number of years, then there's nothing to worry about. As long as you have your ducks in a row and cross all your Is and dot your Ts, you'll be fine.

Yeah, its frustrating, but its what we have to do.

[Carlawarla 1]

I fully agree with Reba. You're going to be visiting Canada for more than a few months now...but it will not impact on your visa approval and issuance. There have been more than a few people in your situation. Settle in for a long wait now until your wife can be with you in the US, but it's heartening to know that you can visit often.

Much luck on a speedy approval!

I note you wrote this in the wee hours of the morning. Get a good nights sleep now please!

[Flames9_RN 358]

Other VJ members have been denied and when asked at the Consulate, of course they answered yes (never lie), and it didnt cause them any problems!! Best of luck

[Krikit 1,165]

I agree with the other posters, Eric. You'll be fine.

[Melyssa 0]

I made the mistake of reading the link about some poor guy who has been battling with USCIS for 8 years trying to get his Japanese wife back. Apparently they filed for a K-1, didn't get it in time, married in Hawaii anyway, and then she entered the US with the K-1 visa (but already married). Anyway, the USCIS charged them with immigration fraud and banned her from entry for 10 years. TI guess the jist of this is that they knew the rules and knowlingly allowed her in without the correct visa. Here is the story that I read last night

http://www.usforacle.com/home/index.cfm?ev...3b-e3e9d3edddd7

So this got me thinking about my case. And probably worrying way too much, hopefully.

In our case, we were completely oblivious to immigration laws and rules. We both figured, that when you married an American citizen you were allowed to live in the US. I knew that we eventually had to get my wife a social security number for her to work, but had no idea about the different visas or what they meant. Stupid, I know, but we were completely ignorant of immigration laws. We didn't have a visa of any sort when we married in Hawaii last January, and didn't know we were in violation until we tried to get back into the US after visiting Canada last June. My wife was in the US for 1 month and a half after our wedding, went home to Ontario for a couple weeks to visit family, then came back to the US for three months before we were finally denied entry by CBP. We were given the I-275 form and told that she couldn't come back, even for a visit, until visa was in hand. The CBP officer who denied our entry told us that the denial would not affect our immigration approval, and that it was if we had never attempted to get her into the US. A lawyer we consulted with agreed with that and said that if we had appeared before an immigration judge, that would have been another matter.

Since being told we needed the visa, she went back to her parent's house in Ontario, and we immediately applied for the K-3 Visa. I have commuted back and forth since June, basically visiting for a month and returning to the US for a month. Our son was born in August in Ontario and we got him his dual citizenship and US Social Security number. We are still waiting on our I-129F and I-130 approvals from the CSC (like a lot of other folks).

After reading the terrible story of the guy trying to get his wife back, I'm very frightened that USCIS would look at our ignorance and deem that we were committing immigration fraud as well. I feel like any rational person would look at our situation and see that we are very much in love and had no intention of breaking any laws, but rational thought and the US government seem to be like oil and water sometimes. Is our situation rare, or are there other experiences that are like ours? I feel like if we're going to get denied now, I may as well start looking at moving to Canada, rather then wasting our time with a process that will most likely end up in denial.

Thanks for listening...

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation! We wouldn't have known anything about visas either for Canadian/American couples if it wasn't for someone mentioning a K1 Fiancée Visa shortly after we met and then I did some research to see what she was talking about and we didn't end up getting engaged for awhile, so we had lots of time to look it all up - and we still didn't know much of it until we actually filed (and were referred to this web-site!) Whatever happens it's not your fault! I'm so sorry you and your wife have to be separated for now.

I wouldn't think that you would have too many problems at all but I don't know anything about situations like this... and you took the right step to apply for the K3. Hope your wife gets her K3 visa soon. And it's awesome that your son has dual citizenship so I don't think you'll have to worry about K4 so looks like that part has worked in your favour at least. I think you guys will be fine as well!!! Keep us updated and I hope your family is reunited real soon!!

Edited February 28, 2008 by Melyssa

[Udella&Wiz 325]

I think you've now taken the right approach and all the advice above is sound!

I can't count the number of times people have said to me...'what? you mean you can't just move there?' Everyone (Canadians and Americans included) is amazed at how much red tape there is. I was amazed myself, in the end, it hasn't been as long as I thought it would be. We filed for the K1 approx 1 yr ago, now we're married and my GC has been approved and in the mail (I moved in Nov of last year)

It's a positive thing that your wife and child are in Canada, have available healthcare and obviously you have wonderful in-laws. It's nice that they get to be up close and personal with their new grandbaby...although you must be desparate to be together as a family.

Good luck and visit us often

[LadyNoles 0]

I'm sorry to hear that !! But somehow it is for the best...as really soon ( remember time goes fast) youll be with your wife and shell have the right to stay and live in US legally.

Thats stink totally i agree...... American/Canadian couples didnt have to get a visa to get married in US a longgggg time ago lol

and now it really putts people in confusion about can we? can we not ? They should do huge advertisements to say" HEY CANADIANS.... interest in marrying an american citizen?? loll GET A VISA TO GO ALONG WITH THE LAW " instead of advertisements for army .

Dont worry !! Focus on loving your wife and visit her as often as you can..It will soon all be behind ya

keep smiling

[zyggy 9]

I made the mistake of reading the link about some poor guy who has been battling with USCIS for 8 years trying to get his Japanese wife back. Apparently they filed for a K-1, didn't get it in time, married in Hawaii anyway, and then she entered the US with the K-1 visa (but already married). Anyway, the USCIS charged them with immigration fraud and banned her from entry for 10 years. TI guess the jist of this is that they knew the rules and knowlingly allowed her in without the correct visa. Here is the story that I read last night

http://www.usforacle.com/home/index.cfm?ev...3b-e3e9d3edddd7

So this got me thinking about my case. And probably worrying way too much, hopefully.

In our case, we were completely oblivious to immigration laws and rules. We both figured, that when you married an American citizen you were allowed to live in the US. I knew that we eventually had to get my wife a social security number for her to work, but had no idea about the different visas or what they meant. Stupid, I know, but we were completely ignorant of immigration laws. We didn't have a visa of any sort when we married in Hawaii last January, and didn't know we were in violation until we tried to get back into the US after visiting Canada last June. My wife was in the US for 1 month and a half after our wedding, went home to Ontario for a couple weeks to visit family, then came back to the US for three months before we were finally denied entry by CBP. We were given the I-275 form and told that she couldn't come back, even for a visit, until visa was in hand. The CBP officer who denied our entry told us that the denial would not affect our immigration approval, and that it was if we had never attempted to get her into the US. A lawyer we consulted with agreed with that and said that if we had appeared before an immigration judge, that would have been another matter.

Since being told we needed the visa, she went back to her parent's house in Ontario, and we immediately applied for the K-3 Visa. I have commuted back and forth since June, basically visiting for a month and returning to the US for a month. Our son was born in August in Ontario and we got him his dual citizenship and US Social Security number. We are still waiting on our I-129F and I-130 approvals from the CSC (like a lot of other folks).

After reading the terrible story of the guy trying to get his wife back, I'm very frightened that USCIS would look at our ignorance and deem that we were committing immigration fraud as well. I feel like any rational person would look at our situation and see that we are very much in love and had no intention of breaking any laws, but rational thought and the US government seem to be like oil and water sometimes. Is our situation rare, or are there other experiences that are like ours? I feel like if we're going to get denied now, I may as well start looking at moving to Canada, rather then wasting our time with a process that will most likely end up in denial.

Thanks for listening...

I'm not so sure in this case if it's that easy or simple... If CBP gave her an I-275 form, it usually means more than just a denial of entry. What does it say exactly on that form. If it says anything about misrepresentation, then you're going to have to apply for some waivers before you get a visa. Is there a Section 212 citation on it...

To make a more informed determination, you're going to need to divulge what was on the form.

Edited February 28, 2008 by zyggy

[Caladan 19]

What did the form say?

The guy in the article is a different case. When they married, that wasn't the problem. It was when they used the K-1 visa that essentially she used a visa on false pretenses. You haven't done that. Getting married and leaving the U.S. is permissible.

So it all depends on what was on the form. If it's as you've said, that they simply denied her entry, it shouldn't be a problem just like the lawyer said. But it does depend on what they wrote down on the form.

[SonoranSongbird 3]

I don't have any advice to offer on your situation, I'm afraid, but I wish both you and your wife the best of luck.

[Eric_and_Corinna 0]

Thank you all for your responses. I know that we've been doing everything right since the denial of entry, but the longer the situation goes on, the more what-ifs start to creep into your head...

Zyggy and Caladan, her I-275 cites SEC 212(a) (7) (A) (i) (I) and further says that she was living in the US since February (131 days) and that we were both instructed that she was not allowed to visit the US until visa was in hand. Nothing more.

This is the section of the Code of Federal Regulations that I found pertaining to our case...

(7) Documentation requirements.-

(A) Immigrants.-

(i) In general.-Except as otherwise specifically provided in this Act, any immigrant at the time of application for admission-

(I) who is not in possession of a valid unexpired immigrant visa, reentry permit, border crossing identification card, or other valid entry document required by this Act, and a valid unexpired passport, or other suitable travel document, or document of identity and nationality if such document is required under the regulations issued by the Attorney General under section 211(a) , or

(II) whose visa has been issued without compliance with the provisions of section 203, is inadmissible.

I've talked to lawyers, CBP officials, and Embassy employees in Toronto that have told us that it should not affect our case since it is considered a withdrawal of application. But you still never know, right? I'd love to hear your advice, if you have any, on it.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Eric_and_Corinna

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

I think you guys will be just fine, just be honest.

You are doing it the right way now.

I wish you best of luck!!!

[michellea 0]

Hi

I was turned around just like you.

During the interview the guy asked if I had ever been refused entry. I told him that I had (he already knew this my paperwok said the same ting and the computer!) Told him I did not know that I needed a visa, and he said "that's what they wrote as well"

No worries. Just be honest.

There was no delay or anything due to it

Good luck

[warlord 73]

In the Japanesse couples story, the wife hadn't left the US after being married at all until her AP came in then they would have been fine. She came over to the US, they got married in Hawaii with what seems to have been with a valid K-1. Now that they got married it didn't seem like they filed for the AP at all which is the big mistake. Then she left without the AP and then illegally tried to re-enter with the K-1 which is of course fraud as the K-1 was invalidated once they got married.

In your case, it doesn't seem like you wife attempted to lie at the border and try and use her K-1. It just seems she didn't realize and then was found out she was married. So that's the big difference with your case compared to the other. Once she gets' the K-3, then there shouldn't be any sort of problem as she never attempted to falsely use her K-1 to gain entry.

The border guard obviously didn't think your wife was attempting to gain entry by fraud (using the K-1 while married) so there really isn't anything you need to be worried about. Sure there might be questions later on in the immigration process, but nothing to really worry about I don't think...

Edited February 28, 2008 by warlord