Cooking with Wine ??

[Nasturtium 500]

Nutmeg is an intoxicant in larger quantities. Ripe and overripe fruit contain alcohol. Bread rises because yeast ferments. Most people aren't in a tizzy over any of these things. Mohammed said something about vinegar being the best of condiments in one of the ahadeeth narrated by ‘Aisha. To me it's just obvious inconsistency. So choose whichever school of thought you want on it.

[PetraPerson101 0]

With wine, I've found that if you substitute sparkling grape juice - you yield similar results.

We make dill carrots here ( carrots, red wine, onions, butter, dill - it sounds simple - and it is - but oh man are they GOOD ) - and in the past, we made them with cooking wine.

We substituted sparkling grape one year, and they came out *even better*.

I've made a variety of things using just grape juice , sparkling, white, etc - dishes like Chicken Marsala come out great. I can grab this dish from Bertucci's ( www.bertuccis.com - aka, REAL Italian food - not cheese slop ), and it's great. I can make it at home using sparkling white, and it comes out nearly as good. I'm satisfied with either.

When you consider what goes on when you cook - I don't see why there would be any huge difference. You're sweetening up the dish with a fruit juice, except, fermented. When you heat up the wine, supposedly, the alcohol all evaporates - and then what, you're left with ... gasp ... fruit juice with no alcohol.

Why not just start with the fruit juice?

I think, personally, if you cook up all the alcohol - and it's no longer there - then it's not alcohol anymore. I wouldn't use huge amounts, AND, if it's avoidable, I'd avoid it.

So, vanilla's like - an exception for me. That's sort of unavoidable ...

Anyways, those are my thoughts.

Nutmeg is an intoxicant in larger quantities. Ripe and overripe fruit contain alcohol. Bread rises because yeast ferments. Most people aren't in a tizzy over any of these things. Mohammed said something about vinegar being the best of condiments in one of the ahadeeth narrated by ‘Aisha. To me it's just obvious inconsistency. So choose whichever school of thought you want on it.

ZOMG! Vinegar's alcoholic? I never knew that ... o.O

Edited February 27, 2008 by KyanWan

[Jenn! 918]

I can grab this dish from Bertucci's ( www.bertuccis.com - aka, REAL Italian food - not cheese slop ), and it's great.

Sorry I just couldn't let this one go. I'm an Italian food snob.

[PetraPerson101 0]

I can grab this dish from Bertucci's ( www.bertuccis.com - aka, REAL Italian food - not cheese slop ), and it's great.

Sorry I just couldn't let this one go. I'm an Italian food snob.

Well, more REAL than what you get at the local pizza place - you've got to choose your words carefully these days.

It's a little Americanized - but the "cheese slop" that I mentioned should have given away what I was referring to. Some people think if you slop cheese and tomato sauce on something - throw some basil on it ... and it's "Italian food". :\

And don't even get me started on the MOCK-aroni that they've got in Jordan!! XD

All four Sunni schools are unanimous on the prohibition of consuming wine in any quantity. As well, wine is a type of najasa (filth). With reference to wine, the classical Arabic Hanafi fiqh text Al-Hidayah states:

It is filth - severe filth, similar to urine. (Al-Hidayah, Book of Drinks)

Well, considering that it is the excrement of the yeast ... it literally IS.

So, to any doubting people out there - how'd a guy know this kind of stuff 500-600 years ago?

Edited February 27, 2008 by KyanWan

[Jenn! 918]

I can grab this dish from Bertucci's ( www.bertuccis.com - aka, REAL Italian food - not cheese slop ), and it's great.

Sorry I just couldn't let this one go. I'm an Italian food snob.

Well, more REAL than what you get at the local pizza place - you've got to choose your words carefully these days.

It's a little Americanized - but the "cheese slop" that I mentioned should have given away what I was referring to. Some people think if you slop cheese and tomato sauce on something - throw some basil on it ... and it's "Italian food". :\

And don't even get me started on the MOCK-aroni that they've got in Jordan!! XD

I guess everything is relative. Bertucci's is my cheese slop. But I do like their pizzas.

I had some spaghetti at a restaurant in Morocco...I don't know why I would have ordered that.

[PetraPerson101 0]

I guess everything is relative. Bertucci's is my cheese slop. But I do like their pizzas.

I had some spaghetti at a restaurant in Morocco...I don't know why I would have ordered that.

You heard it!

When you're on vacation, NEVER eat foreign food. Eat the local dishes!

Aw man, I can still remember that "hamburger" I had in Amman....

20 years ago.

[MHandMB 0]

I had some Mexican food in Germany. It was very...interesting.

My husband doesn't like me to cook with alcohol, so I try not to, but I love making chicken marsala, beef bourgignon, etc. I'd love to find a recipe that gives me some of the taste without the alcohol. Anyone have any tips?

[Nasturtium 500]

Kyanwan-- vinegar is "spoiled alcohol", so depending on the level you let it turn to it will still contain alcohol or mostly be gone.

http://www.vinegarman.com/VinegarMaking.shtml

Obviously most of the vinegar made is not spoiled alcohol that was originally intended for consumption, but it's the same thing either way (IMO). Also, that's why you see red wine vinegar, apple cider, etc. which are obviously spoiled versions of the original drink itself (although probably usually poor quality, I can't imagine wine-makers really letting their wine spoil like that and then trying to market the vinegar as it wouldn't be cost-effective).

So anyway, vinegar is always listed as halal, even though it can clearly fall over and above the ammount of alcohol which is listed as "haram" for many stricter muslims in those cook-off charts, vanilla-extract purists, etc.

[morocco4ever 63]

Well if it is cooked in a hot enough temp them the alcohol would burn off so it would not contain alcohol.

I don't think that's true:

Table from USDA Showing Percent of Alcohol Retained After Cooking

Preparation Method Percent of Alcohol Retained

alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85%

alcohol flamed 75%

no heat, stored overnight 70%

baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45%

baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture:

15 minutes 40%

30 minutes 35%

1 hour 25%

1.5 hours 20%

2 hours 10%

2.5 hours 5%

I make a killer Bailey's Irish Creme Cheesecake. This blows my argument out of the water.

[Jenn! 918]

Well if it is cooked in a hot enough temp them the alcohol would burn off so it would not contain alcohol.

I don't think that's true:

Table from USDA Showing Percent of Alcohol Retained After Cooking

Preparation Method Percent of Alcohol Retained

alcohol added to boiling liquid & removed from heat 85%

alcohol flamed 75%

no heat, stored overnight 70%

baked, 25 minutes, alcohol not stirred into mixture 45%

baked/simmered, alcohol stirred into mixture:

15 minutes 40%

30 minutes 35%

1 hour 25%

1.5 hours 20%

2 hours 10%

2.5 hours 5%

I make a killer Bailey's Irish Creme Cheesecake. This blows my argument out of the water.

I'm sorry.

Don't they make Irish Creme flavoring? I know nothing is like the real thing though!

[AlHayatZween 2]

I make a killer Bailey's Irish Creme Cheesecake. This blows my argument out of the water.

OOoooo! The real thing or a substitution, sounds yummy to me!

hz

[sarahaziz 0]

??? Vinegar??? That's the key ingredient to Shawarma?!??!?

[morocco4ever 63]

??? Vinegar??? That's the key ingredient to Shawarma?!??!?

What kind of vinegar? Now that I think of it my MIL uses vinegar and oil dressing (white vinegar), does it have alcohol as well? Perhaps my argument can stand!

BTW, I didn't know if they have artificial flavoring, but I should check. On the other hand, isn't that similar to vanilla? Doesn't really mean a hill of beans to me, a teaspoon of flavoring can't possibly be considered harmful.

[Jenn! 918]

I threw the vinegar thing out there, but I don't really know if it's haram or not. There must be some way to confirm.

Soy sauce also contains a small amount of alcohol. I wonder how many foods do that you wouldn't expect. Heck, baby food probably has some alcohol! Surely these can't all be haram...

[Nasturtium 500]

Vinegar is not listed as haram because of the Aisha hadeeth, even though of course that wou;ld directly contradict the idea that things in large quanity which are intoxicating are haram in small quantities which contradicts the idea of bread fermentation being halal which it is, of course. That's why I said I guess it's a matter orf picking and choosing what you want. if you want to stay away from ALL alcohol, you can't indulge in any fruits, you couldn't eat seriously ripe veggies, and probably would mostly drink water and eat wheat flour or some amazingly unimaginative thing. Mint is an intoxicant in a large quantity as are many other herbs and spices. No one seems to be throwing a tizzy over those or fruit or... (except the occasional nutmeg fatwa.)