American's view on Islam

[Nasturtium 500]

Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath?

Why do anger and wrath have to be negative? Emotions are as they are, and what you do with them depends on whether it is negative or not. If anger motivates you to do justice, then it is not a negative emotion. If anger motivates you to do something spiteful, decietful, or selfish, then it can be negative. It just depends. I don't think there are any really negative emotions, just negative reactions.

[Nasturtium 500]

since when does prohibiting divorce=prohibiting polygamy? polygamy is not mentioned once in those passages.

When a divorce is not permissible, then subsequent marriages are considered unlawful...

Mypoint is that God's feelings about divorce show that to enter into polygamy is to be an adulterer....

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (NIV Matt 19.8-9, pp. Mark 10.1-12)

So, if Jesus states that improper divorce does not nullify a marriage, and if the first marriage still stands, then a "second" marriage is adultery--and NOT just 'polygamy'! The point applies to polygamy (having more than one spouse simultaneously), polyandry (woman with more than one husband) , and polygyny ( one husband having more than one wife )...

On the flip side, because polygamy was essentially considered adultery, there were not many direct passages about polygamy.. except when it was authorized by God in certain situations... monogamy was emphasized instead.... church leaders are to be the husband of one wife (stated in 1 Timothy & Titans)... and the reverse phrase, a wife of one husband, is mentioned in 1 Timothy when talking about the godliness of a widow....the importance of following the examples of the apostles, disciples, and leaders... etc.

Pointless information really for non-Christians.... but, it's out there nonetheless...

Actually Yeshua doesn't say anything new either. It's part of the Torah and a common analogy made between adultry/polygamy/and polytheism.

[Nutty 2]

WRONG!!! It has to do with Quranic law. Not with culture!

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Apostasy in Islam is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.

The four major Sunni and the one major Shia Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed. They differ on the punishment for a female apostate - some schools calling for death and others for imprisonment. Whether Sharia laws governing apostasy are derived from the hadith traditions alone or also from the Quran is disputed. According to Wael Hallaq nothing of the apostasy law are derived from the Qur'an, although the jurist al-Shafi'i interpreted the Quranic verse [Qur'an 2:217] as providing the main evidence for apostasy being a capital crime in Islam.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Nutty

[amrssnowangel 0]

hey everyone....hope all is going well with all of u...

1- Muslim Man whether married or not if he is good in life and abides by Allahs rules he does get the maidens either way.

2- Muslim Man can not marry the short marraige or the misyar marraige.... just as virtual wife said.

3- Muslim man can marry any woman but she has to have either muslim chritian or jewish.

4- Muslim woman has to marry only a muslim man.... becoz Islam cares about spreading the religion and in Islam the kids are by nature born muslims like their fathers.

i know lots of u will disagree and im really sorry im not here to offend anyone im just saying the facts how it is... i love u all without even knowing you and i wish u all the best in the world.. but thats how the religion is.

love n peace

Are all the muslim and christian women on this board ok with their husbands believing in the maidains? Cuz I'm not. In all respect to the poster I'm just speaking on my beliefs now. I believe God made Adam and Eve and that's what God set the world to follow. Now people AFTER Adam and Eve they started having more than 1 wife and that was NOT God that was THE PEOPLE who made those rules. (Speaking from the bible) and Christians believe Jesus was sent to this world to teach the gospel to People about adultry,sin,forgiveness,marriage, etc.. The correct way of life. I personally if I married a man and I was 1 of the 4 wives that would create alooot of tension between the women. I couldn't respect a man with more than 1 woman so I don't know how its a holy marriage among 4? Well whatever I just wanted to know other womens views on Islam.

Where in the new testament does Jesus, pbuh, say that man should only have one wife?

He doesn't. Interesting isn't it. Show me where God or Jesus (pbuh) ever states that we are to have only 1 wife. This is Pauls doctrine.

[Nutty 2]

I don't get it either... besides, as far as i'm concerned ... is heaven really a place to be making whoopie ? That whole concept just seems very carnal and gratuitous and not very eternal/spiritual.... IMO

I have to agree with you when you look at like this. I thought we were supposed to be free from lust when we go to heaven. Not making like bunnies.

[amrssnowangel 0]

Why does god - a perfect being - have negative, human-based emotions like anger and wrath?

Anger and wrath are not human based emotions. The BAD part of these is what we do with these emotions and how we handle them. That is the HUMAN based part. The reactions to them. We are ALL made in the image of God. Including Anger and Wrath. God is neither male or female. God is God. He has both attributes and we can never begin to understand Him in our human minds.

[Nasturtium 500]

The concept is definitely not the same in Islam. The relationship between man and God is not even remotely comparable to a husband and wife since God cannot be compared whatsoever to man. God is Almighty and no one human can possibly conceive of what He is in reality. Just thinking about it gives me a headache. Then again I have a headache anyways.

The concept is in both Christianity and Judaism as it's in both the Tanakh and the New Testament. The problem is one has to see marriage for what it is in the Tanakh (as Paul says-- all "scripture" (Tanakh is the word used) is good for study-- the NT wasn't even around and I have no idea why Christians mostly stick to it and never even open up the OT which they are told to study, but that's another argument). You have a man approach a woman and her family about marriage. If you decide to marry, you do a ketubah (contract). The couple can then get to know each other, although they will not live together or have relations. Meanwhile, the father of the son will build a room onto his house for the new couple. When it is done, they can finalize their marriage. Yeshua talks about this when he gives that classic vision of heaven: John 14:12 "In My Father's house there are many dwelling places." The parrallel is fairly simple but gets lost in people's diatribes.

1. Yeshua is like the son-- He seeks us and it is our choice to accept or reject His offer.

2. He cares for us. In return we are to be loyal and faithful to Him.

3. Instead of a ring exchange or any kind of "mahr" to use the Islamic term, we take G-d into our hearts, minds, souls, etc. Point is we don't give anything in return for our gift of salvation, but our love and faithfulness.

4. When it is time we go to live in His Father's house (heaven).

I thought you had a Christian background, but I knew you were more familiar with Islam, so I thought I'd just explain what she was saying a bit more, because it always sounds kind of weird as a comparison coming from the Western mindset about what marriage is (sex, friendship, etc). Middle Eastern culture in general had the same basic ideas about what made a marriage-- an economic, religious, and social status-- not some romatic thing all filled with "looooooove" (said like the typical 5-year-old ). Anyway, hope that helps.

[amrssnowangel 0]

I don't get it either... besides, as far as i'm concerned ... is heaven really a place to be making whoopie ? That whole concept just seems very carnal and gratuitous and not very eternal/spiritual.... IMO

I have to agree with you when you look at like this. I thought we were supposed to be free from lust when we go to heaven. Not making like bunnies.

I dont think its the idea of lust or making like bunnies. Throughout time God uses many figurative examples and sayings to bring a truth to humans. Virgins are pure and in Paradise the muslim mans wife will continually be a virgin (why??? )...renewed and pure. Being a virgin is a symbol of purity. Not just sexually but in heart and mind as well. Is it possible this is a way to bring about a spiritual truth of the things to come in paradise...that they will be pleasing and pure. In Islam..one of the best things a man can do is marry a virgin. She is pure and chaste. Now not all follow this or believe this..but its what is taught. It is the idea that man will inherit the best that paradise has to offer. For those that walk the walk faithfully.

[Nutty 2]

Iranian Man's Three Wives Attempt Suicide

A 67-year-old Iranian Man's three wives all attempted suicide after the youngest of the three bought a pair of expensive boots.

The man told the ISNA student news agency "My two other wives were very jealous after my 27-year-old wife bought a pair of boots for $450".

All three women who are currently in hospital are said to be in a "stable condition".

[amrssnowangel 0]

The concept is definitely not the same in Islam. The relationship between man and God is not even remotely comparable to a husband and wife since God cannot be compared whatsoever to man. God is Almighty and no one human can possibly conceive of what He is in reality. Just thinking about it gives me a headache. Then again I have a headache anyways.

The concept is in both Christianity and Judaism as it's in both the Tanakh and the New Testament. The problem is one has to see marriage for what it is in the Tanakh (as Paul says-- all "scripture" (Tanakh is the word used) is good for study-- the NT wasn't even around and I have no idea why Christians mostly stick to it and never even open up the OT which they are told to study, but that's another argument). You have a man approach a woman and her family about marriage. If you decide to marry, you do a ketubah (contract). The couple can then get to know each other, although they will not live together or have relations. Meanwhile, the father of the son will build a room onto his house for the new couple. When it is done, they can finalize their marriage. Yeshua talks about this when he gives that classic vision of heaven: John 14:12 "In My Father's house there are many dwelling places." The parrallel is fairly simple but gets lost in people's diatribes.

1. Yeshua is like the son-- He seeks us and it is our choice to accept or reject His offer.

2. He cares for us. In return we are to be loyal and faithful to Him.

3. Instead of a ring exchange or any kind of "mahr" to use the Islamic term, we take G-d into our hearts, minds, souls, etc. Point is we don't give anything in return for our gift of salvation, but our love and faithfulness.

4. When it is time we go to live in His Father's house (heaven).

I thought you had a Christian background, but I knew you were more familiar with Islam, so I thought I'd just explain what she was saying a bit more, because it always sounds kind of weird as a comparison coming from the Western mindset about what marriage is (sex, friendship, etc). Middle Eastern culture in general had the same basic ideas about what made a marriage-- an economic, religious, and social status-- not some romatic thing all filled with "looooooove" (said like the typical 5-year-old ). Anyway, hope that helps.

I agree..I have a christian up bringing..converted. The relationship for any of us no matter the religion is one of a marriage in some form. And we are required to give something for our gift of salvation, our love and faithfulness. Meaning our belief in HIM alone...and obedience to His word. His laws and commands.

I agree marriage based on romance is more of a western idea that as most can see...fails...the divorce rate being high. If it was based on economic, social, religious, similar up bringing, goals, morals and values..maybe more would focus on commitment and dedication, instead of how it FEELS. I dont think God ever intended marriage based on love. Adam and Eve obviously were not in love at first..she was simply made as his helper and was expected to do that and he was expected to do his part.

[doodlebugg 10]

The concept is definitely not the same in Islam. The relationship between man and God is not even remotely comparable to a husband and wife since God cannot be compared whatsoever to man. God is Almighty and no one human can possibly conceive of what He is in reality. Just thinking about it gives me a headache. Then again I have a headache anyways.

The concept is in both Christianity and Judaism as it's in both the Tanakh and the New Testament. The problem is one has to see marriage for what it is in the Tanakh (as Paul says-- all "scripture" (Tanakh is the word used) is good for study-- the NT wasn't even around and I have no idea why Christians mostly stick to it and never even open up the OT which they are told to study, but that's another argument). You have a man approach a woman and her family about marriage. If you decide to marry, you do a ketubah (contract). The couple can then get to know each other, although they will not live together or have relations. Meanwhile, the father of the son will build a room onto his house for the new couple. When it is done, they can finalize their marriage. Yeshua talks about this when he gives that classic vision of heaven: John 14:12 "In My Father's house there are many dwelling places." The parrallel is fairly simple but gets lost in people's diatribes.

1. Yeshua is like the son-- He seeks us and it is our choice to accept or reject His offer.

2. He cares for us. In return we are to be loyal and faithful to Him.

3. Instead of a ring exchange or any kind of "mahr" to use the Islamic term, we take G-d into our hearts, minds, souls, etc. Point is we don't give anything in return for our gift of salvation, but our love and faithfulness.

4. When it is time we go to live in His Father's house (heaven).

I thought you had a Christian background, but I knew you were more familiar with Islam, so I thought I'd just explain what she was saying a bit more, because it always sounds kind of weird as a comparison coming from the Western mindset about what marriage is (sex, friendship, etc). Middle Eastern culture in general had the same basic ideas about what made a marriage-- an economic, religious, and social status-- not some romatic thing all filled with "looooooove" (said like the typical 5-year-old ). Anyway, hope that helps.

I do have a Christian background and I'm not more familiar with Islam than with Christianity I was a Christian for 40 years (though not well versed in Christianity until I was about 30 yrs old).

I never said it isn't like that in Christianity I said it's not like that in Islam. We do not liken God to man in any way shape or form was my point. She has said that a marriage between husband and wife is like the relationship between God and man.

Edited February 28, 2008 by bridget

[Nutty 2]

PS...

Muslim men can have more than one wife. But he has to treat all the same way, equally. This could become expensive.

Additionally, sometimes it is better to have one wife to avoid jealousys and have a quiet homelife.

[Nasturtium 500]

I've never asked him about his belief in "maidens" in heaven. I just can't get behind such a corporeal view of heaven. I know Muslims don't feel it's "pagan" at all, but that's how it rings to me (and probably most from a Jewish or Christian background). For us there is no marriage in heaven, no worldly things. You possess nothing. We don't get that many glimpses into what it entails, although there is mention of G-d's Sukkah in the Millenial Kingdom and new heaven and Earth. Yeshua talks about marriage in heaven/after resurrection in Matthew 22. The general idea though, is that you will be finally able to praise G-d for all eternity in His presence, something that one cannot ever do in life.

[Nasturtium 500]

I do have a Christian background and I'm not more familiar with Islam than with Christianity I was a Christian for 40 years (though not well versed in Christianity until I was about 30 yrs old).

I never said it isn't like that in Christianity I said it's not like that in Islam. We do not liken God to man in any way shape or form was my point. She has said that a marriage between husband and wife is like the relationship between God and man.

I got your point that it's not like that in Islam, which points to a more indifferent G-d (which leads to my eternal question of then if G-d could care less one way or the other, why did He bother to send any prophets? He should let us all burn.)

Our G-d is not a fair G-d, but a just G-d. A fair G-d would let us burn because we should all burn according to the Torah, and there is nothing we could ever do to ever equal His standards. A just G-d gives us a chance

I was just explaining her point a bit more, pointing out marriage isn't romantic in this context as that's the usual question I have got about it.

[doodlebugg 10]

I got your point that it's not like that in Islam, which points to a more indifferent G-d (which leads to my eternal question of then if G-d could care less one way or the other, why did He bother to send any prophets? He should let us all burn.)

Maybe I worded it wrong. We've lost a lot of members on here that were MUCH more well versed than I in talking about Islam. I don't think "indifferent" is the word I'd use.

Our sinning and non repentance does not affect Allah but it affects us. In other words whatever we do does not change what He is, if that makes sense. It can't since He is "Al-Ghaniyy", self sufficient and does not need creation. He is however The Loving, The Generous One, The forgiver, etc. so we are provided with the straight path to walk towards heaven.