My wife left me!

[eekee 182]

i want to see what his logic is for the corresponding phenomenon of american men searching for foreign brides.

We've been here before, but it's always fun to revisit. AKDiver had a nice diatribe (listed out numerically, no less!) a few posts ago.

What I would really like to know is what you, as an American woman think about the guys who paruse the pages of these websites trying to find a foreign bride. And why it is that they themselves are searching for a Western husband? Why there are 48,000 Russian women on websites there, but no men. (There are a few men, didn't mean to generalize! But it is amazingly one-sided. Why is that?)

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different. I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

[mox 298]

Actually, I am so glad I gate-crashed the Russian community because Blues Fairy blows every single stereotype about Russian's that has been spouted in this thread (largely by American males) completely out of the water.

Not only is she Russian, she's beautiful, intelligent, eloquent and not the least bit arrogant. The argument should really have ceased the moment she posted.

Quoted for truth.

On what grounds? Simply because she's not being arrogant here? There are many areas of her life that she can be arrogant other than VJ, remember about the "real world" outside of VJ and how we are all on here only virtually?

And to Blues Fairy and everyone else, I'm not saying you are arrogant right now, I'm simply saying the possibility exists that you could be and there is most likely an area of your life that you are arrogant in. And does that change my definition of a generalization? Like the phases of the moon?

Actually, you're the one who keeps changing your definition:

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

If you can show me a Russian being humble or ashamed, I'll consider an apology. Until then, I'm sticking to my generalization.

If you're going to try to weasel out of this by saying that just because Blues Fairy isn't being arrogant here, but that she surely is arrogant in some other part of her life, and therefore your argument holds true, I would urge you to take a community course in logic. You are basically saying that Blues Fairy must prove a negative, something that's not possible.

Also, by your modified definition, that all it takes is some aspect of her life for her to be arrogant in to fit the "all Russians are arrogant by definition" argument, then you are basically saying 99.99% of the planet's population are arrogant. We've all been arrogant at some time in our life, and most of us will continue to have moments of arrogance. It's part of being human.

So which is it..."Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent" or "I'm not saying you are arrogant right now, I'm simply saying the possibility exists that you could be and there is most likely an area of your life that you are arrogant in."? The two are mutually exclusive.

[workin4somethin 0]

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

Bovine Scat!

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different.

I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

So...there are some people who think that if you have syphilis, you should have to tell your spouse/fiance(e)? Hey I just figure that's none of her business.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

You have good reason, Jason! Still swimming in delight? Like I really need to ask!

Oh, they are still coming out of the woodwork-!!!

Oh, dear VJers, please read the threads!

I do not know what to say, but I understand your pain and loss. I am available to assist you as I am able to.

Be strong my friend...

This kills me when people do this I have avoided this thread for a while and I'm glad to see that everyone is having fun here now. I've missed alot of entertaining conversation. Again! Dang

You are correct, Jeff! We've been way too happy to bother with any of these arguments, though they are entertaining. And we could care less about the stereotypes. They don't affect us one bit. we know who we are and how we love. Looks like so many Americans here are already "experts" on Russian people and culture. At least, they think they are. so, who are we to say differently?

[eekee 182]

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

Bovine Scat!

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different.

I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site.

what do you mean by "bovine scat"?

I have lots of unmarried russian female friends under 25 and none of them have dating site profiles.

and btw you did not answer my question.

Edited February 28, 2008 by eekee

[Buck and Natalia 0]

I am coming very late to this thread. All I can say is, "What the HELLLLLLL happened here?"

For what's its worth, this is why Satellite's so called "joke" was totally morally repugnant:

1. There have been people here who have posted genuine "My Wife Has Left Me" posts. Very tragic. Extremely sad posts. Other VJ'ers offerred what little moral support they could to these poor souls in extreme pain. They tried to do the same for Satellite until being informed that they were "suckers." Given that there has been genuine such posts in the past, Satellite's conduct amounted to shouting "Fire" in crowded theater. Just as sociopaths do this in a crowded theater to see how the crowd reacts........ Satellite or his wife (who can believe them now?) did this to see how the VJ'ers would react.

2. Satellite became defensive and refused to admit his conduct was wrong. In this sense, Satellite is well on his way to becoming one of the many smug, condescending, arrogant brethren that are attracted to my profession. Joke about Lawyers in the Harvard Law Review concerning the poor reputation of lawyers among the general public: "Why should a few hundred thousand bad apples spoil the whole bunch?" Satellite's initial "joke" and subsequent refusal to accept responsibility for the outpouring of sympathy it obtained under false pretenses was, at the very least, callous. At worst, it was a cold calculated manipulation of VJ'er sympathies. One can only hope actual law practice makes Satellite more compassionate as it does with many new attorneys. If not, I truly pity his clients.

Buck

Edited February 28, 2008 by Buck and Natalia

[workin4somethin 0]

Very tragic. Extremely sad posts. Other VJ'ers offerred what little moral support they could to these poor souls in extreme pain. They tried to do the same for Satellite until being informed that they were "suckers." Given that there has been genuine such posts in the past, Satellite's conduct amounted to shouting "Fire" in crowded theater. Just as sociopaths do this in a crowded theater to see how the crowd reacts........ Satellite or his wife (who can believe them now?) did this to see how the VJ'ers would react.

Buck

Good grief!

Yeah, I'll bet they did it to weed out those who are the most insecure of VJ'ers.

[workin4somethin 0]

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

Bovine Scat!

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different.

I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site.

what do you mean by "bovine scat"?

I have lots of unmarried russian female friends under 25 and none of them have dating site profiles.

and btw you did not answer my question.

(1) I was being polite with Bovine Scat.

(2) Silly you; your unmarried Russian female friends are arrogant, or did you forget?!

(3) Again, I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site. Actually, it's probably more than half.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

Very tragic. Extremely sad posts. Other VJ'ers offerred what little moral support they could to these poor souls in extreme pain. They tried to do the same for Satellite until being informed that they were "suckers." Given that there has been genuine such posts in the past, Satellite's conduct amounted to shouting "Fire" in crowded theater. Just as sociopaths do this in a crowded theater to see how the crowd reacts........ Satellite or his wife (who can believe them now?) did this to see how the VJ'ers would react.

Buck

Good grief!

Yeah, I'll bet they did it to weed out those who are the most insecure of VJ'ers.

How is offering sympathy and support to person you think is in pain "insecure"? Are you "insecure" merely because you did not realize that the alleged person in pain was lying to you? Pirates in the Indian Ocean do the same thing by sending out a fake distress signal. Are those that respond to the distress signal and are subsequently murdered "insecure"?

[mox 298]

not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site. Actually, it's probably more than half.

Bovine scat.

[eekee 182]

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

Bovine Scat!

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different.

I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site.

what do you mean by "bovine scat"?

I have lots of unmarried russian female friends under 25 and none of them have dating site profiles.

and btw you did not answer my question.

(1) I was being polite with Bovine Scat.

(2) Silly you; your unmarried Russian female friends are arrogant, or did you forget?!

(3) Again, I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site. Actually, it's probably more than half.

I would question whether you have actually been in russia. I lived in Russia for over a year, was a mainstreamed student at a russian university, worked at a Russian art studio, lived with a Russian family and then rented an apartment with two Russian friends, and generally participated actively in Russian social circles, and from my experience I am saying that I personally know more american girls that dated russian men seriously than the other way around. This is mostly due to the fact that Russian girls wanted more commitment than my American guy friends were willing to give them. How is my OWN experience bovine scat??? That is pure foolishness. There's a lot of really hot young russian men who treat women really well. Maybe things have changed since the last time I was there, which was six weeks ago. When I return in June I will report back.

And where are you getting your statistics about half of russian women in prime marrying age are on dating sites? Sorry, but i don't know ANY, and i know way more Russian girls than you do.

[workin4somethin 0]

Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much...

So what exactly are you trying to say about Russian men, in general?

By the way, I think Russian men don't post profiles, because they're so arrogant - similar to how you have described them in your earlier post.

[visaveteran1 33]

Most of these women, I've noticed, seem to be out of the prime Russian marrying age for women, have already been married, have children etc. None of my girlfriends in Russia are on these sites, because they're young and can just go to a club or whatever and find a guy. When you're a young women it's easy to get a boyfriend. But in America, too, it's harder if you're older. I know lots of older divorced women in the US who meet men off the internet. Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. I think it's easier for men to get girls when they're older and established, and easier for women to get men when they're young. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much--the amount of people who die really, really young. So as you get older, the less good, unmarried russian men there are. Thus there's a surplus of women in comparision with men.

I know more American girls in Russia who have had serious Russian boyfriends than the other way around.

Bovine Scat!

I know all the stereotypes that AKDiver posted, I just wanted to hear workin4somethin's opinion. And when you're young it's really different.

I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site.

what do you mean by "bovine scat"?

I have lots of unmarried russian female friends under 25 and none of them have dating site profiles.

and btw you did not answer my question.

(1) I was being polite with Bovine Scat.

(2) Silly you; your unmarried Russian female friends are arrogant, or did you forget?!

(3) Again, I used that as a source, because the writer of the post I was referring to has probably not been to Russia and probably doesn't know any Russians -- not to mention that about half of the 15-million Russian women of prime marrying age have a profile listed on some dating site. Actually, it's probably more than half.

I would question whether you have actually been in russia. I lived in Russia for over a year, was a mainstreamed student at a russian university, worked at a Russian art studio, lived with a Russian family and then rented an apartment with two Russian friends, and generally participated actively in Russian social circles, and from my experience I am saying that I personally know more american girls that dated russian men seriously than the other way around. This is mostly due to the fact that Russian girls wanted more commitment than my American guy friends were willing to give them. How is my OWN experience bovine scat??? That is pure foolishness. There's a lot of really hot young russian men who treat women really well. Maybe things have changed since the last time I was there, which was six weeks ago. When I return in June I will report back.

And where are you getting your statistics about half of russian women in prime marrying age are on dating sites? Sorry, but i don't know ANY, and i know way more Russian girls than you do.

I think talking about people not greatly affected by the Soviet Union days versus folks who took the full brunt of tough life during the SU is talking about apples and oranges. Also, many younger folks in Russia live the "New Russia" lifestyle which is more like life in upper middle class or upper class USA. So it's hard to make any generalizations, There are also regional differences to consider...big city girls versus the village girls

FWIW, I met one American woman in the USA who married a Russian man...they got divorced and he went back to Russia.

BTW, every Russian Bride site I have ever seen has tons of women under 30 going down to 18 years old. The biggest issue with this age group is that there are a lot of scammers...young women praying on older men for their money.

[eekee 182]

Russian men don't post profiles because they don't have to. When they get divorced, kids are with the ex-wife or with mom, who chances are still cooks and cleans for him. It's also a demographic issue: life expectancy is significantly lower for Russian men because a lot of them *do* die from substance abuse etc. That is what brings the life expectancy down so much...

So what exactly are you trying to say about Russian men, in general?

By the way, I think Russian men don't post profiles, because they're so arrogant - similar to how you have described them in your earlier post.

I never said that Russian men are arrogant. That was slim. If I thought Russian men were all arrogant then I wouldn't be posting in this forum, because I certainly wouldn't want to be marrying one.

I'm just pointing out sociological facts. but just because there is a higher rate of things like alcoholism and heroin use in russia than the usa doesn't mean that every guy in russia is alcoholic junkie.