My wife left me!

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

Face the fact, Russians are arrogant. The average Russian male walks and talks with a swagger, and can beat his wife without her having any legal recourse; then, he can divorce her and take all her possessions. The average Russian female is blinded by arrogance and doesn’t realize she would be better off finding a non-Russian husband. By the way, arrogance is pride, overbearing pride.

You know what buddy? You are a moron.

I would never ever marry someone who had the distaste for Canada as you seem to have for Russia.

How can you even love someone when you obviously hate her culture, heritage and people?

Pathetic.

[akdiver 3]

And for those of you out there pissed off about my "generalization of Russians as arrogant and indifferent" you need to remember that a generalization doesn't mean that every single person is exactly this way. It "generalizes" them into a certain category. If you don't fit in that category good. But can you not make a generalization of some sort? (Any subject?) And once again, if I'm wrong in my generalization please explain to me why.

Slim, you are truly a god amongst men. I agree with almost everything you have to say, including your "Make a wish" argument, on which you are entirely correct.

However, I think you're a bit off with how you are using/defining a generalization.

NOT a generalization: Americans are fat.

IS a generalization: Most Americans are fat. Americans tend to be fatties. In general, Americans are fat. Americans are generally fat. Studies show that....

That said, generalizations, like their much-aligned cousin, stereotypes, are a USEFUL AND NECESSARY human feature that allows them to survive and evolve.

Stereotype: tigers are generous.

Gets mentally translated as "all tigers are dangerous". ARE all tigers dangerous? No. Is it good personal policy to assume they are? You betcha.

Applying this to a more typical situation.... woman walking down the street one night, sees three black guys walking toward her from the other direction - maybe doing nothing other than chatting amongst themselves as they walk down the street.

Stereotype: young black men are dangerous.

Action: cross the street, reach hand in purse, ####### gun, just in case.

Result: woman feels safer. Blacks cry racism, rally against the evils of white-dominated society.

The catch: Oops! The woman is a black woman!!

Does the catch change anything? Does the charge of racism go away? How can a black woman possibly be racist against black men?

Isn't it possible that the stereotype "young black men are dangerous" and taking action to guard against it a prudent thing to do, regardless of one's own colour or even gender? Look at the result again. Woman feels safer, the black men feel offended. Once again, is she really responsible for their feelings? How can that be? She has no control over how they choose to feel or not feel. What she DOES have control over is whether or not she crosses the street. This is all she has done. How someone else feels about her crossing the street is really none of her business, concern or otherwise.

Stereotype: students that do well in high school will do well in college

Action: give preferential admissions treatment to HS students with a high GPA

Result: other students do not get into college, there are only so many spots available

How valid is this stereotype? How "fair" is the result?

Stereotype: only those who graduate from medical school & residency can be a qualified doctor

Action: only allow such people to practice medicine

Result: lots of people with interest in being a doctor but don't have time/money for school are excluded (even if, through "self education", they may have more knowledge than a med school graduate)

How valid is this stereotype? How "fair" is the result?

Stereotypes come in all kinds of flavours and levels of validity. However, they are based on observation, data and beliefs, just like pretty much anything else humans think about. They are also useful and necessary for humans to survive.

People shouldn't be all up in arms about stereotypes (generalizations), but they (you, Slim) should be clear about the language involved when declaring one. "Russians are arrogant" may be a generalization in your mind, but it clearly doesn't communicate to others that way - otherwise this sprout from the thread wouldn't have happened. I think a more successful way of communicating your message may be, "Many Russians are arrogant." On the other hand, such a statement doesn't really say much. Many people of whatever nationality you might wish to specify are arrogant too. Big deal. So what to do? "Russians tend to be arrogant?" Maybe a little better I guess. The other approach is for the person receiving the communication to try to understand the frame of mind of the sender. Work a little if you want to understand what someone else is trying to tell you.

FWIW, I don't believe Russians are any more arrogant than anyone else. Look at the Bush administration, U.S. foreign policy for the last 150 years and our plethora of religious people who insist that they have insight as to the "one pure truth" and that if you don't think like they do, you're either going to be in trouble with "god" or they are fully justified in killing you for general purposes. Arrogance abounds - the Russians have no special skills in this area.

Cheers!

AKDiver

Edited February 27, 2008 by akdiver

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Yes, they are! My fiancée says I am many times!

And for those of you out there pissed off about my "generalization of Russians as arrogant and indifferent" you need to remember that a generalization doesn't mean that every single person is exactly this way. It "generalizes" them into a certain category. If you don't fit in that category good. But can you not make a generalization of some sort? (Any subject?) And once again, if I'm wrong in my generalization please explain to me why.

Slim, you are truly a god amongst men. I agree with almost everything you have to say, including your "Make a wish" argument, on which you are entirely correct.

However, I think you're a bit off with how you are using/defining a generalization.

NOT a generalization: Americans are fat.

IS a generalization: Most Americans are fat. Americans tend to be fatties. In general, Americans are fat. Americans are generally fat. Studies show that....

That said, generalizations, like their much-aligned cousin, stereotypes, are a USEFUL AND NECESSARY human feature that allows them to survive and evolve.

Stereotype: tigers are generous.

Gets mentally translated as "all tigers are dangerous". ARE all tigers dangerous? No. Is it good personal policy to assume they are? You betcha.

Applying this to a more typical situation.... woman walking down the street one night, sees three black guys walking toward her from the other direction - maybe doing nothing other than chatting amongst themselves as they walk down the street.

Stereotype: young black men are dangerous.

Action: cross the street, reach hand in purse, ####### gun, just in case.

Result: woman feels safer. Blacks cry racism, rally against the evils of white-dominated society.

The catch: Oops! The woman is a black woman!!

Does the catch change anything? Does the charge of racism go away? How can a black woman possibly be racist against black men?

Isn't it possible that the stereotype "young black men are dangerous" and taking action to guard against it a prudent thing to do, regardless of one's own colour or even gender? Look at the result again. Woman feels safer, the black men feel offended. Once again, is she really responsible for their feelings? How can that be? She has no control over how they choose to feel or not feel. What she DOES have control over is whether or not she crosses the street. This is all she has done. How someone else feels about her crossing the street is really none of her business, concern or otherwise.

Stereotype: students that do well in high school will do well in college

Action: give preferential admissions treatment to HS students with a high GPA

Result: other students do not get into college, there are only so many spots available

How valid is this stereotype? How "fair" is the result?

Stereotype: only those who graduate from medical school & residency can be a qualified doctor

Action: only allow such people to practice medicine

Result: lots of people with interest in being a doctor but don't have time/money for school are excluded (even if, through "self education", they may have more knowledge than a med school graduate)

How valid is this stereotype? How "fair" is the result?

Stereotypes come in all kinds of flavours and levels of validity. However, they are based on observation, data and beliefs, just like pretty much anything else humans think about. They are also useful and necessary for humans to survive.

People shouldn't be all up in arms about stereotypes (generalizations), but they (you, Slim) should be clear about the language involved when declaring one. "Russians are arrogant" may be a generalization in your mind, but it clearly doesn't communicate to others that way - otherwise this sprout from the thread wouldn't have happened. I think a more successful way of communicating your message may be, "Many Russians are arrogant." On the other hand, such a statement doesn't really say much. Many people of whatever nationality you might wish to specify are arrogant too. Big deal. So what to do? "Russians tend to be arrogant?" Maybe a little better I guess. The other approach is for the person receiving the communication to try to understand the frame of mind of the sender. Work a little if you want to understand what someone else is trying to tell you.

FWIW, I don't believe Russians are any more arrogant than anyone else. Look at the Bush administration, U.S. foreign policy for the last 150 years and our plethora of religious people who insist that they have insight as to the "one pure truth" and that if you don't think like they do, you're either going to be in trouble with "god" or they are fully justified in killing you for general purposes. Arrogance abounds - the Russians have no special skills in this area.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Blues Fairy 0]

Stereotypes come in all kinds of flavours and levels of validity. However, they are based on observation, data and beliefs, just like pretty much anything else humans think about. They are also useful and necessary for humans to survive.

In this particular thread, a stereotype was used to explain/justify the behavior of the original poster(s). "Sat behaved like a jerk, but considering that he is Russian (and all Russians are arrogant and insensitive), it's not such a big deal".

Quite an offensive way to use a stereotype, don't you think?

Another example: "akdiver is a heck of a demagogue, but considering he's an American, there's no surprise, since demagoguery is the typical style of dispute among the Americans."

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Face the fact, Russians are arrogant. The average Russian male walks and talks with a swagger, and can beat his wife without her having any legal recourse; then, he can divorce her and take all her possessions. The average Russian female is blinded by arrogance and doesn’t realize she would be better off finding a non-Russian husband. By the way, arrogance is pride, overbearing pride.

Holy cr@p . That in itself is an insult to your wife to be, her heritage and her people. Not very classy, eh? VJ Sheesh

[workin4somethin 0]

Face the fact, Russians are arrogant. The average Russian male walks and talks with a swagger, and can beat his wife without her having any legal recourse; then, he can divorce her and take all her possessions. The average Russian female is blinded by arrogance and doesn’t realize she would be better off finding a non-Russian husband. By the way, arrogance is pride, overbearing pride.

You know what buddy? You are a moron.

I would never ever marry someone who had the distaste for Canada as you seem to have for Russia.

How can you even love someone when you obviously hate her culture, heritage and people?

Pathetic.

You should hear me regarding Canadians....

What nationality do you think I am?

[akdiver 3]

In this particular thread, a stereotype was used to explain/justify the behavior of the original poster(s). "Sat behaved like a jerk, but considering that he is Russian (and all Russians are arrogant and insensitive), it's not such a big deal". Quite an offensive way to use a stereotype, don't you think?

No. I don't believe in the notion that it is possible to "be offensive" to others. As previously indicated, I believe that others may choose to be offended by someone else - but that feeling originates from THEM, not the person they find offensive.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Blues Fairy 0]

No. I don't believe in the notion that it is possible to "be offensive" to others. As previously indicated, I believe that others may choose to be offended by someone else - but that feeling originates from THEM, not the person they find offensive.

Ah yes, I forgot all about your previous solipsistic drivel.

[akdiver 3]

Consider the comment, "you are a typical American". Some people may be flattered and say, "Oh, why thank you very much!" Others may be offended and say, "yeah, well, #### you!". You just don't know how they will feel about your comment. What IS clear is that the decision on whether or not to choose to be offended by the comment rests with the receiver, the one who may or may not be offended, not the one making the comment.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Blues Fairy 0]

Consider the comment, "you are a typical American". Some people may be flattered and say, "Oh, why thank you very much!" Others may be offended and say, "yeah, well, #### you!". You just don't know how they will feel about your comment. What IS clear is that the decision on whether or not to choose to be offended by the comment rests with the receiver, the one who may or may not be offended, not the one making the comment.

Drivel again!

You're having lunch with two Australians and one of them is burping continuously, while another is eating with good manners. You comment to the first one: "you eat like a typical Australian".

Edited February 27, 2008 by Blues Fairy

[workin4somethin 0]

Face the fact, Russians are arrogant. The average Russian male walks and talks with a swagger, and can beat his wife without her having any legal recourse; then, he can divorce her and take all her possessions. The average Russian female is blinded by arrogance and doesn’t realize she would be better off finding a non-Russian husband. By the way, arrogance is pride, overbearing pride.

Holy cr@p . That in itself is an insult to your wife to be, her heritage and her people. Not very classy, eh? VJ Sheesh

Actually, my wife is one who helped convince me of the view I now have.

Note that in my earlier post, I used the word "average;" that means, "not all."

But, go online to a Russian dating site. Contact some of the women there, and ask them about Russian men and why they (the women) are looking for a non-Russian husband.

[~Laura and Nick~ 5]

You should hear me regarding Canadians....

What nationality do you think I am?

I really don't care to know.

[workin4somethin 0]

And arrogance is not overbearing pride.

I'm just wondering.... mox, you're not Canadian, are you?

[akdiver 3]

You're having lunch with two Australians and one of them is burping continuously, while another is eating with good manners. You comment to the first one: "you eat like a typical Australian".

Uh.....ok.

[eekee 182]

Face the fact, Russians are arrogant. The average Russian male walks and talks with a swagger, and can beat his wife without her having any legal recourse; then, he can divorce her and take all her possessions. The average Russian female is blinded by arrogance and doesn’t realize she would be better off finding a non-Russian husband. By the way, arrogance is pride, overbearing pride.

Holy cr@p . That in itself is an insult to your wife to be, her heritage and her people. Not very classy, eh? VJ Sheesh

Actually, my wife is one who helped convince me of the view I now have.

Note that in my earlier post, I used the word "average;" that means, "not all."

But, go online to a Russian dating site. Contact some of the women there, and ask them about Russian men and why they (the women) are looking for a non-Russian husband.

just ugh.