How to Shake Your NOA2 Loose from the CSC

[Meridien 0]

CBR, I have to agree with you on this one. I am fast approaching my 5 month anniversary of sending in my I129F and have never called - and I probably never will. I feel pretty strongly that USCIS should be directing their resources to adjudicating cases, rather than having to spend a fortune on hiring masses of phone centre personnel to field these calls. I know as well as any of you how frustrating it is to send your visa application into the black hole called USCIS and have no information for months on end, but I would like to encourage people to restrict the number of calls they make.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth, I don't mean to disparage you in any way, TBone, I know that your suggestions are coming from a good place. This process is enough to drive anyone crazy.

[rebeccajo 14]

I apologize if someone already brought this up but...

I have a real problem with encouraging people (especially within the processing dates) to abuse the RFE line to nag the officers about their case. That line is for people who truly have an RFE and NEED HELP with it. What if all these people who are within processing time and have no valid reason to be calling other than their own impatience get out of hand and the USCIS decides NO MORE!! Or even on a lesser scale... 5 of you call in a row then someone who truly needs their help calls and gets to encounter an annoyed, harassed po'd officer and now they not only have an RFE but have to deal with this irritated uscis officer on top of it. You get my point?

Tbone I love that you want to help people and appreciate that your intent is sincere but for those of us who actually HAVE been waiting too long it's hard to read about ppl waiting 3-4 months calling! I have only called twice in all this time and said basically the same things you suggest here and it didn't work. When it's time it will be time.

Of course you're frustrated, CBR -- and, someone already brought it up. The recording toward the end of the phone-prompts told me, EVERY time, that I was required "to provide the evidence requested." It is not abuse or a trick or a lie to inquire about what one is told. It is also not abuse, in my firm opinion, to expect to get some information after having paid usurous fees and being stonewalled. As (was it) Mox said, we are debugging the USCIS system until USCIS comes up with something better. And, CBR, try again, this time saying exactly (vs. basically) the same things suggested here. Let us know!

TBoneTX - let me get this straight. You dialed the number and you pushed the prompt for having an RFE. Then the next prompt was 'provide the evidence requested'. And you interpret that it is not a trick or lie to inquire about doing 'what one is told'? By a machine?

Edited February 26, 2008 by rebeccajo

[TBoneTX 45,285]

TBoneTX - let me get this straight. You dialed the number and you pushed the prompt for having an RFE. Then the next prompt was 'provide the evidence requested'. And you interpret this to be doing 'what one is told'? By a machine?

As was posted last week, this exact set of prompts was provided to me directly by a particularly helpful Immigration Officer. Everyone is welcome to read that post.

[rebeccajo 14]

TBoneTX - let me get this straight. You dialed the number and you pushed the prompt for having an RFE. Then the next prompt was 'provide the evidence requested'. And you interpret this to be doing 'what one is told'? By a machine?

As was posted last week, this exact set of prompts was provided to me directly by a particularly helpful Immigration Officer. Everyone is welcome to read that post.

At this point, given the way you 'color' your perspectives of what you are told, I'd like to have a word-by-word description of that entire conversation between you and the Immigration Officer.

[TBoneTX 45,285]

At this point, given the way you 'color' your perspectives of what you are told, I'd like to have a word-by-word description of that entire conversation between you and the Immigration Officer.

Oh, it was devious and diabolical, rebeccajo!

"Is there any way at all to avoid having to wait on hold for 40 minutes or longer, such as dialing right through to anybody more helpful than these contracted screeners?

"Yes! It's one of these two ways..."

At this point, rebeccajo, given that I've asked at least twice before with no direct response, I'd like to have your suggestion of a better system for helping anxious people, many of whom are not being processed in order, learn the status of the application that they paid rich fees to submit. Tell all of us, tell us now, and be specific and detailed. If your intent is to find fault, what do you hope to achieve?

[bakofoil 27]

I apologize if someone already brought this up but...

I have a real problem with encouraging people (especially within the processing dates) to abuse the RFE line to nag the officers about their case. That line is for people who truly have an RFE and NEED HELP with it. What if all these people who are within processing time and have no valid reason to be calling other than their own impatience get out of hand and the USCIS decides NO MORE!! Or even on a lesser scale... 5 of you call in a row then someone who truly needs their help calls and gets to encounter an annoyed, harassed po'd officer and now they not only have an RFE but have to deal with this irritated uscis officer on top of it. You get my point?

Tbone I love that you want to help people and appreciate that your intent is sincere but for those of us who actually HAVE been waiting too long it's hard to read about ppl waiting 3-4 months calling! I have only called twice in all this time and said basically the same things you suggest here and it didn't work. When it's time it will be time.

I have to agree with every single sentiment laid bare in this post. TB I know you have the most wonderful motivation for coming up with this idea to shake up USCIS and the way it currently operates.

However, as long as there are people on VJ posting approvals after 28 days (lucky them!), given the logic for calling you have stated here, every single filer could call to try and shake free their NOA2 too. The reality is that, for some, it will take 6 months and for others 28 days.

I think CBR is right. One day, if this goes on, they will just stop letting anyone call and RFE's will be handled by post. I used the RFE trick a couple of times and I felt guilty about using it. But my petition was approaching 180 days before I reached the point where I felt justified in calling. I know you will argue that I shouldn't have to justify calling - but I did in fact feel guilty for misusing the line. What if my two calls tipped someone over the edge and they cut the lines altogether? It's a tough one. Seeing others get approved much earlier and not really being able to be proactive about your own case.

Now my case is in London I am finally able to be proactive. Unfortunately, no amount of calling is going to shake CBR's NOA2 out of CSC.

eta: that sounded wholly negative and I didn't intend it to. CBR is right, when your time comes it comes.

Edited February 26, 2008 by babblesgirl

[CBR 0]

I heard the same "you need to submit the evidence we requested" recording and then was told by the "real" person that there has been no evidence requested. It seems to be just a recording that everyone hears because they pushed the prompts leading to the RFE line. And I do believe that purposely using this technique is an abuse of the system because it ties up the workers with irrelevant calls when they could/should be helping those who need it.

I've read about name checks on the FBI website and about ALL the different databases the USCIS uses to do namechecks/security checks and if you are in that situation NOTHING is going to move you along any faster. If someone has an answer for that PLEASE tell me!!

That being said I also believe very strongly that SOMETHING needs to be done to improve this entire process. The lame online updates are such a feeble attempt at pacifying us during our wait...it's like why even bother? The problem is they simply don't care and they don't have to care because they are accountable to no one. Yes we pay them, but it's not like a business that is concerned about their customer care.

[mox 298]

In response to "abusing" the RFE line, I'll re-post a previous post of mine:

Hmmm...

One of my jobs as an engineer is to figure out why things are done the way they are. I often come across methodologies that, to me, make no sense. But it turns out that these methodologies are conceived and implemented because the "right" way either does not exist, is to cumbersome, or does not return the expected results.

I believe that if the USCIS provided the ability to get a real, accurate status, the "RFE trick" and its relatives would be obsoleted. People don't "abuse" the RFE line, they use it because it's the only way they can get a status. We are literally debugging USCIS's system, and if they are truly interested in customer service they will analyze this problem and come up with a better solution. Like the guy in Jurassic Park said, "life finds a way."

I also believe that so-called abuse of the RFE line is very likely not a problem. The VJ community is a minute portion of the overall USCIS filer base. Of that minute community, most will never call the RFE line. If I had to venture a guess I'd say less than 30%. OTOH I kinda wish they'd notice that the line was being abused, so they would come up with a solution that gives their customers the answers they want.

As for using social engineering to get what we want...this too is only a symptom of the real problem, which is that the system is so opaque that it forces customers to seek alternative and perhaps creative ways to get through the hard outer shell to the creamy nougat. If USCIS see this as a problem they should either a) re-design the phone system to make it virtually impossible to get a hold of a live person or B) provide real customer support. I would not be surprised to learn that B) would not only be easier, but would be cheaper as well. It's always easier and cheaper to open up a system than it is to harden one.

As I said before, I'm all for fair play and if I thought for a moment that my actions were causing me to leap ahead of where I was supposed to be, I'd condemn it in a second. But this doesn't seem to be what's going on to me. For starters, despite TB's optimism (sorry TB) I don't believe we've seen any evidence so far that actually results in a petition moving forward any further/faster than it was already moving. My petition was already approved when I called, so the only result was that I knew a day or so ahead of when I'd have known. Other callers seem to feel better, but nothing I've seen seems to indicate a filer was able to get a "stalled" petition back on the move again. Still, I think it's way too early to make proclamations of success or failure at this point. I don't think anything conclusive can be said until there are at least 6 months worth of reports.

You could argue (perhaps rightly) that it's not up to us to "fix" USCIS, but the engineer in me thinks that if we never point it out then they'll never see it as a problem.

To paraphrase: If the USCIS provided a real pipeline for case status, it would be a moot point. But since there is only one avenue to speak with a real live customer service person, I have no problem "abusing" the system. USCIS should see this as an opportunity to fix their system. I am all for working within the system, but when the system is broken I'm not above the use of duct tape.

[rebeccajo 14]

At this point, given the way you 'color' your perspectives of what you are told, I'd like to have a word-by-word description of that entire conversation between you and the Immigration Officer.

Oh, it was devious and diabolical, rebeccajo!

"Is there any way at all to avoid having to wait on hold for 40 minutes or longer, such as dialing right through to anybody more helpful than these contracted screeners?

"Yes! It's one of these two ways..."

At this point, rebeccajo, given that I've asked at least twice before with no direct response, I'd like to have your suggestion of a better system for helping anxious people, many of whom are not being processed in order, learn the status of the application that they paid rich fees to submit. Tell all of us, tell us now, and be specific and detailed. If your intent is to find fault, what do you hope to achieve?

My intent is not to 'find fault'.

I don't know what to tell you about 'anxiousness'. Take a walk; get a massage; cry; get drunk; pray. Whatever works.

TBoneTX, there didn't even used to be a misinformation line!! Years ago there was NOTHING except stick your petition in the post and wait. No Infopass either. COMPLETE black hole.

I don't have another suggestion other than try to cultivate patience. Abusing the little bit of access to live officers that are available to help those who TRULY have a problem is not the way to go about resolving 'anxiousness', in my opinion.

[mox 298]

I don't have another suggestion other than try to cultivate patience. Abusing the little bit of access to live officers that are available to help those who TRULY have a problem is not the way to go about resolving 'anxiousness', in my opinion.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with this point. If you filed in February and are calling in March, that's just silly and a waste of time for everyone. And if you are only calling to set your mind at ease, that too is silly and a waste of time. But when you see that USCIS are not processing petitions in the order in which they are received, as they have stated they do, then I think it's time to call.

Edited February 26, 2008 by mox

[TBoneTX 45,285]

To paraphrase: If the USCIS provided a real pipeline for case status, it would be a moot point. But since there is only one avenue to speak with a real live customer service person, I have no problem "abusing" the system. USCIS should see this as an opportunity to fix their system. I am all for working within the system, but when the system is broken I'm not above the use of duct tape.

That's my exact point. Also, it should be mentioned that I simply followed both "prompt" procedures that I was told (by the agent of USCIS) without listening to any of the options. One of her two suggested systems worked. That agent freely provided a system to follow, and I followed it. If it were dishonest or proprietary, she wouldn't have volunteered it.

I don't have another suggestion other than try to cultivate patience. Abusing the little bit of access to live officers that are available to help those who TRULY have a problem is not the way to go about resolving 'anxiousness', in my opinion.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with this point. If you filed in February and are calling in March, that's just silly and a waste of time for everyone. And if you are only calling to set your mind at ease, that too is silly and a waste of time. But when you see that USCIS are not processing petitions in the order in which they are received, as they have stated they do, then I think it's time to call.

I concur with Mox's reasoning. Let's use our heads.

[mox 298]

To paraphrase: If the USCIS provided a real pipeline for case status, it would be a moot point. But since there is only one avenue to speak with a real live customer service person, I have no problem "abusing" the system. USCIS should see this as an opportunity to fix their system. I am all for working within the system, but when the system is broken I'm not above the use of duct tape.

That's my exact point. Also, it should be mentioned that I simply followed both "prompt" procedures that I was told (by the agent of USCIS) without listening to any of the options. One of her two suggested systems worked. That agent freely provided a system to follow, and I followed it. If it were dishonest or proprietary, she wouldn't have volunteered it.

Well, (sorry TB, I'm straddling the other side of the fence now) I do have to say that I'm under no illusion that calling the RFE line when I don't have an RFE is whatever we want to call it...abuse, dishonest, whatever. I don't justify it in my mind any other way. It is what it is. But I do justify the call as I posted earlier. Their system is broken, it's the only way I can talk to them.

A long time ago, I made the analogy that if USCIS required my favorite color to be pink in order to file for a K-1, then you can bet I'd fill in the form affirming my supreme preference for the color pink. I'd even notarize it, despite the fact that pink rates pretty low on my scale of favorites. And the reason I would commit such dishonesty is because under this scenario it's the one and only way for me to file the petition. I feel the same way about calling the RFE line. Provide me a real, official way to speak to a customer service person and I'll gladly use it.

[bakofoil 27]

I don't have another suggestion other than try to cultivate patience. Abusing the little bit of access to live officers that are available to help those who TRULY have a problem is not the way to go about resolving 'anxiousness', in my opinion.

Believe it or not, I actually agree with this point. If you filed in February and are calling in March, that's just silly and a waste of time for everyone. And if you are only calling to set your mind at ease, that too is silly and a waste of time. But when you see that USCIS are not processing petitions in the order in which they are received, as they have stated they do, then I think it's time to call.

They are not processing petitions in the order they are received. People who filed the same day I got my NOA2 are being approved. If that's the marker then it will get really silly. You are asking people to use it reasonably but if I had filed mid-January you can bet I would be wanting my NOA2 now too. Would I use the RFE trick? No, because I've been around here long enough to know the system is unfair and based on a fair amount of luck. I don't begrudge the lucky ones at all, I envy them and wish I had been them. But, I fail to see how calling the RFE line will help change the system. It's not like they feel compelled to make their customers happy.

[rebeccajo 14]

To paraphrase: If the USCIS provided a real pipeline for case status, it would be a moot point. But since there is only one avenue to speak with a real live customer service person, I have no problem "abusing" the system. USCIS should see this as an opportunity to fix their system. I am all for working within the system, but when the system is broken I'm not above the use of duct tape.

That's my exact point. Also, it should be mentioned that I simply followed both "prompt" procedures that I was told (by the agent of USCIS) without listening to any of the options. One of her two suggested systems worked. That agent freely provided a system to follow, and I followed it. If it were dishonest or proprietary, she wouldn't have volunteered it.

Well, (sorry TB, I'm straddling the other side of the fence now) I do have to say that I'm under no illusion that calling the RFE line when I don't have an RFE is whatever we want to call it...abuse, dishonest, whatever. I don't justify it in my mind any other way. It is what it is. But I do justify the call as I posted earlier. Their system is broken, it's the only way I can talk to them.

A long time ago, I made the analogy that if USCIS required my favorite color to be pink in order to file for a K-1, then you can bet I'd fill in the form affirming my supreme preference for the color pink. I'd even notarize it, despite the fact that pink rates pretty low on my scale of favorites. And the reason I would commit such dishonesty is because under this scenario it's the one and only way for me to file the petition. I feel the same way about calling the RFE line. Provide me a real, official way to speak to a customer service person and I'll gladly use it.

But Mox, you are given a way to speak to a Customer Service person when you call the I-800 number and follow the proper prompts.

It's just not the Customer Service person you feel can help you.

I think it's a serious delusion to think that simply because one is able to reach an 'Immigration Officer' by ringing in on the RFE line, that this Officer is somehow more empowered to 'help' your case. They may have access to a bit more information, but I have yet to see real compelling evidence that anyone - anyone - has seen their actual case move forward more quickly due to making this call. You might get a temporary 'feel good' but beyond that, I am unconvinced.

It's pretty tough to say we are justified in calling when we discern our case to be sort of 'past the point of reason' and for everyone to 'just use their heads'. Everyone is going to have a different perspective of when that point might be.

[TBoneTX 45,285]

[...] I fail to see how calling the RFE line will help change the system. It's not like they feel compelled to make their customers happy.

Agreed; I was not one who made any point about changing the system (nor am I criticizing anyone who may have) -- refer to the original title of this thread.

"I don't know what to tell you about 'anxiousness'. Take a walk; get a massage; cry; get drunk; pray. Whatever works." -- These things "work" for only so long, if we read practically every post on every thread on VJ. And "get drunk" is a responsible recommendation?!

"TBoneTX, there didn't even used to be a misinformation line!! Years ago there was NOTHING except stick your petition in the post and wait. No Infopass either. COMPLETE black hole." -- This means that we should hop in our horse-drawn buggies next time we want to go prayin' at Meetin'.

If people here would rather remain in the dark (and probably remain miserable or anxious), then don't call. It's that simple. If you're at the end of your rope and want to try for a better feeling (and something to tell your fiance/e and the rest of the people in your world that keep asking what's going on), then call. Use your head, as others have stated.

Who here can provide some history on the discovery and use of the "RFE 'Trick,'" which was being referred to before I ever joined VJ, let alone stumbled onto the approach recommended in this thread?