How to Shake Your NOA2 Loose from the CSC

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Apologies for not being a valid data point, but I think you'll understand.

BUT, have you updated your timeline, si man?

SI, MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

We will (LATER) discuss who will now tally the results of The Approach, si man.

God, but I've never been happier, si man!

:whistle: hmmm i hate to ask but does this mean the experiment is complete..........

Not complete, perhaps, but rather robustly proven for effectiveness, si man!

[rebeccajo 14]

Apologies for not being a valid data point, but I think you'll understand.

BUT, have you updated your timeline, si man?

SI, MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

We will (LATER) discuss who will now tally the results of The Approach, si man.

God, but I've never been happier, si man!

:whistle: hmmm i hate to ask but does this mean the experiment is complete..........

Not complete, perhaps, but rather robustly proven for effectiveness, si man!

[mox 298]

Not complete, perhaps, but rather robustly proven for effectiveness, si man!

In all seriousness, what it *might* show (in this sample of one) is that if you ask the customer support person to check on the status of your case, especially when it's been on an adjudicators desk for over 2 weeks as mine has been, there's a good chance they will actually go over and talk to the case officer as mine did. Since my case had presumably already been approved (microscopic likelihood that she said "is it approved?" and he looked at it and said "oh sure, why not?") it was only a matter of time before I found out, but still an interesting glimpse into the process.

Edited February 21, 2008 by mox

[TBoneTX 46,041]

[quote name='mox'

Not complete, perhaps, but rather robustly proven for effectiveness, si man!

OK, then, RJ; it's up to you to see if you get through to an Immigration Officer on a matter other than an K1 via The Approach. (Others are already going to try this, so we'll add your comments to theirs.) The success rate of feeling better and gaining useful information of those who have tried The Approach so far is close to 100%.

A two-day search of your posts revealed some valuable comments by you on AOS issues, some exceptionally literate opinions about immigration policy, some comments just as remarkable or unremarkable as those that any of us tend to post, and these two threads, both of which required Moderator intervention when you were recently active in them:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98743

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/lofivers...php/t75046.html

Please inject some positive substance into this thread or else refrain from negativity, which can only discourage other VJ members from trying an approach that could make them feel better and produce information useful to them. Nobody ever erected a statue to a critic. Thank you.

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Not complete, perhaps, but rather robustly proven for effectiveness, si man!

In all seriousness, what it *might* show (in this sample of one) is that if you ask the customer support person to check on the status of your case, especially when it's been on an adjudicators desk for over 2 weeks as mine has been, there's a good chance they will actually go over and talk to the case officer as mine did. Since my case had presumably already been approved (microscopic likelihood that she said "is it approved?" and he looked at it and said "oh sure, why not?") it was only a matter of time before I found out, but still an interesting glimpse into the process.

Can't find fault with this reasoning, and it's a glimpse that's both interesting and POSITIVE. How different from running against the stonewalling of the Customer Disservice representatives, si man!

[rebeccajo 14]

TBoneTX - Thanks for researching. I am active here and so there are times when I participate in threads where the mods come in. Could happen to anyone, really.

You are being overly touchy, I believe, about my comments in this thread. Either that or I am mis-reading what you think this 'method' achieves. The method is useful, IMO, if you are personally stressed about your file to the point you think it is 'lost'. It is also useful for making the person 'feel better' and hey - I am all for that.

I am not, however, in favor of mis-using the RFE prompts to access the 'floor'. I guess if you don't have a problem with essentially lying about the purpose of your call, then you don't have a problem trying to schmooze the operator by using what you believe to be their 'language' to try and push your case ahead of others. Which may be where I am mis-reading you as that may not be your intent. I can assure you that if it is your intent, it is in vain. You cannot push your case ahead of the line by making phone calls. You can however (it appears) mis-use the RFE access to a live immigration officer for the purpose of checking up on your case.

A few thousand calls of that variety, and I wouldn't be afraid to guess that the service will change the prompt system in some manner so that such access will be unavailable to those petitioners who truly don't have an RFE. At least we can hope that is the least they will do. They could entirely cut out live voice help to those who TRULY need an RFE explained to them.

As I told you yesterday, I'm not interested in having 'statues' erected to me on VJ. Perhaps you were looking to have yourself immortalized here in some fashion - ala 'James Shortcuts' which is a great method of short cutting the system. The fundamental difference between James system and yours, however, is no falsehoods are involved.

Thank you.

[mox 298]

Hmmm...

One of my jobs as an engineer is to figure out why things are done the way they are. I often come across methodologies that, to me, make no sense. But it turns out that these methodologies are conceived and implemented because the "right" way either does not exist, is to cumbersome, or does not return the expected results.

I believe that if the USCIS provided the ability to get a real, accurate status, the "RFE trick" and its relatives would be obsoleted. People don't "abuse" the RFE line, they use it because it's the only way they can get a status. We are literally debugging USCIS's system, and if they are truly interested in customer service they will analyze this problem and come up with a better solution. Like the guy in Jurassic Park said, "life finds a way."

I also believe that so-called abuse of the RFE line is very likely not a problem. The VJ community is a minute portion of the overall USCIS filer base. Of that minute community, most will never call the RFE line. If I had to venture a guess I'd say less than 30%. OTOH I kinda wish they'd notice that the line was being abused, so they would come up with a solution that gives their customers the answers they want.

As for using social engineering to get what we want...this too is only a symptom of the real problem, which is that the system is so opaque that it forces customers to seek alternative and perhaps creative ways to get through the hard outer shell to the creamy nougat. If USCIS see this as a problem they should either a) re-design the phone system to make it virtually impossible to get a hold of a live person or B) provide real customer support. I would not be surprised to learn that B) would not only be easier, but would be cheaper as well. It's always easier and cheaper to open up a system than it is to harden one.

As I said before, I'm all for fair play and if I thought for a moment that my actions were causing me to leap ahead of where I was supposed to be, I'd condemn it in a second. But this doesn't seem to be what's going on to me. For starters, despite TB's optimism (sorry TB) I don't believe we've seen any evidence so far that actually results in a petition moving forward any further/faster than it was already moving. My petition was already approved when I called, so the only result was that I knew a day or so ahead of when I'd have known. Other callers seem to feel better, but nothing I've seen seems to indicate a filer was able to get a "stalled" petition back on the move again. Still, I think it's way too early to make proclamations of success or failure at this point. I don't think anything conclusive can be said until there are at least 6 months worth of reports.

You could argue (perhaps rightly) that it's not up to us to "fix" USCIS, but the engineer in me thinks that if we never point it out then they'll never see it as a problem.

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Hmmm... [...] You could argue (perhaps rightly) that it's not up to us to "fix" USCIS, but the engineer in me thinks that if we never point it out then they'll never see it as a problem.

Eminently agreed with the Moxxian analysis.

Just 3 things for rebeccajo:

1. Every time I used The Approach, the recording told me "you must provide the evidence requested" (or close to that). The first time I heard it, I nearly had a coronary. But, only honesty is involved, because if they say that that the caller has an RFE (which I presume their recording was saying), the caller would naturally ask about it.

B. The "Approach" (the prompts from start to finish, resulting in direct connection with a live Immigration Officer) was actually suggested to me BY an ImmigOff to whom I'd spoken months ago! She provided two possible combinations of prompts, saying that one of them should work. The one that she thought was the correct one wasn't, but the other -- the one suggested in this thread -- turned out to be it. So, in reality, this Approach for "engineering the system" was suggested by an agent with USCIS itself, so it ought to be OK by anyone's standard to use it.

III. Peace treaty between us now, si man?

d. Five out of four people are bad at math, and I'm at least one of them, si man.

Edited February 22, 2008 by TBoneTX

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Note to Folks Here: Several people have PM'd me to say that they tried The Approach and that it worked as advertised (with information forthcoming, etc.). A couple of other people have written to say things like "I was told to wait a month and contact my lawyer." If the latter happens, avoid despair; simply try again next week, and you'll surely reach someone more helpful than the person you reached this first time.

The basic thing (and the result to expect) is to receive helpful information that makes you feel better because you actually learned something and and talked to someone responsive and sympathetic. If your file is in a position at the Service Center where it can be moved forward as a result of your call, that's a nice bonus. Either the basic benefit or the bonus is reason to try The Approach again in a few days if the first attempt was disappointing, and to repeat the procedure every month or so thereafter.

[bosanskasnaha 0]

These tips are not guaranteed for speeding receipt of your NOA2, but they worked for me after many weeks of banging my head against stone walls and unhelpful front-line call-screeners. They have also worked for other VJ members whose K-1 files had been sitting unapproved for some time. I recommend trying these tips if you're approaching or have exceeded the posted "we are processing applications received as of" date at the CSC.

These recommendations may (or may not) appear similar to what has been called the "RFE Trick." There is no "trick" involved here. Until now, I have posted these tips in individual response to plaintive cries for help. Without exception, others have stated that trying the recommendations proved effective and served to relieve their own personal stress. Perhaps the VJ moderators will consider pinning this thread so that all who are frustrated can have one place to look.

---

Here is what I did to shake things loose. The keys are to [1] reach a correct person, and [2] speak USCIS's language.

Call 800-375-5283, then hit 1,2,2,4,2,1; enter your receipt number; hit 1,1. (There is no need to wait for all of the recorded options to be read before you hit these buttons.) The recording will almost certainly say that "additional evidence is required," but don't necessarily believe it.

When the phone rings, you should be speaking with an actual Immigration Officer (not a clueless front-line screener who can tell you only what you already know). If the recording said that "additional evidence is required," ask the ImmOff exactly this: "Why does the recording say that I have a Request For Evidence?" He/she will almost certainly tell you that there's no record of an RFE; thank him/her profusely.

Do you think this would work for the K-3 or the CR1? I have been waiting over 6 months since I filed my I-130.

Then (or first), ask exactly this: "Will you please tell me exactly where in the Division my file is?" He/she will tell you. Then say exactly this: "I'm aware that several files received after mine have already been approved, and the USCIS website clearly says 'we process applications in the order we receive them.' Will you please send an e-mail to the floor, and ask the person at the ____ station [whatever the ImmOff told you] to please hand-carry the file to the next station?"

The ImmOff will appreciate your "speaking the language," because it is so different from the usual plaintive "do something!" that they hear all day, every day. The e-mail should at least cause one of the processors on the floor to handle your file, and your record on the USCIS Case Status website may soon reflect a "touch."

The procedures that I have recommended are worth it, and you should feel better afterwards. Depending on how long ago you have submitted your application (the longer, the "better"), you can repeat this process every 10 to 14 days.

Do NOT mention that you are part of an on-line community; this is not necessary, and mentioning it could hinder your success. However, feel free to post your stories on VJ!

Do you think this would work for the K-3 or the CR1? I have been waiting over 6 months since I filed my I-130.

Edited February 22, 2008 by bosanskasnaha

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Do you think this would work for the K-3 or the CR1? I have been waiting over 6 months since I filed my I-130.

To be honest, I don't know. The telephone prompts -- which I have always zoomed through, rather than listening to all of the choices -- may be purely for K-1 inquiries. (This might be verified by proceeding through the existing prompts and seeing whether the automated system will accept your K-3 or CR1 case number.)

If the system does not accept a case number for anything but a K-1, there may be another route through the prompts. Someone will have to listen to the choices and write down any differences, then let other VJ members know in this thread or a new thread that applies to the type of visa or status application.

Beyond the technical aspect, it would make sense that, once you reach an actual Immigration Officer, he/she could answer pretty much any question about any case that's pending at one of the Service Centers. Again, folks will have to test this and report back.

[mox 298]

The phone line is for all petitions, including K-3. I don't know if it'll work as advertised for K-3 filers though.

[TBoneTX 46,041]

Let's hear more (hopefully) positive reports today, as a result of people trying this approach.

[TBoneTX 46,041]

I wouldn't've thought that this thread would go stagnant after its first lively week! Reports of your results?

[sara..... 371]

I wouldn't've thought that this thread would go stagnant after its first lively week! Reports of your results?

not so good called again this week she was not as nice as last week lol

but said still received and pending no change