He played his supporters for suckers

[metta 0]

I saw this on the news last night. Did you also see the clip they showed of Hillary saying something along the lines of, "If Blockbusters can keep track of who has their videos, I'm sure this country can keep track of who it gives visas to.." Then they showed a clip of John Edwards saying the exact same thing 5 months earlier...

Yes, I agree with you in that politicians do borrow phrases and expressions from whereever. But to recycle a whole speech given by another person without giving credit is a whole different matter. At least to me. Tt reinforced my belief that he is just an empty suit.

The 21st century version of "New Kids On the Block".

Remember that group?

Kids went wild over them until it was found that they had the moves right but were only lip syncing.

In the '80s I used to enjoy Jimmy Swaggert on TV. Only I turned on mute and watched him for his movements which resembled Jerry Lee Lewis- his cousin from whom he copied the moves.

Rock'nRoll incorporated into "Hellfire and Damnation" sermons really drew gobs of followers.

Jimmy didn't borrow moves from Jerry Lee, fool. He's all original.

I despise Jimmy Swaggert more than anyone else on this board and I will give him his due. The guy was good at what he did. In fact, he's actually a VERY good pianist, maybe even better than Jerry Lee. Unfortunately, he got caught paying for the goodness and lost it.

However, he still has a rather large compound here in town and his house is still as big as ever.

You obviously do not know how to engage in a civil discourse in public!

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

I saw this on the news last night. Did you also see the clip they showed of Hillary saying something along the lines of, "If Blockbusters can keep track of who has their videos, I'm sure this country can keep track of who it gives visas to.." Then they showed a clip of John Edwards saying the exact same thing 5 months earlier...

Yes, I agree with you in that politicians do borrow phrases and expressions from whereever. But to recycle a whole speech given by another person without giving credit is a whole different matter. At least to me. Tt reinforced my belief that he is just an empty suit.

The 21st century version of "New Kids On the Block".

Remember that group?

Kids went wild over them until it was found that they had the moves right but were only lip syncing.

In the '80s I used to enjoy Jimmy Swaggert on TV. Only I turned on mute and watched him for his movements which resembled Jerry Lee Lewis- his cousin from whom he copied the moves.

Rock'nRoll incorporated into "Hellfire and Damnation" sermons really drew gobs of followers.

Jimmy didn't borrow moves from Jerry Lee, fool. He's all original.

I despise Jimmy Swaggert more than anyone else on this board and I will give him his due. The guy was good at what he did. In fact, he's actually a VERY good pianist, maybe even better than Jerry Lee. Unfortunately, he got caught paying for the goodness and lost it.

However, he still has a rather large compound here in town and his house is still as big as ever.

You obviously do not know how to engage in a civil discourse in public!

You obviously do not know how to recognize sarcasm.

[Caladan 19]

Tempest in a teapot if you ask me. Obama and the guy are friends and have talked politics and speeches for years. Two years or so before that guy's speech is Obama using the same lines.

Clinton's camp must be getting pretty desperate.

[almaty 19]

typical politics/.//throw everything and see if anything sticks

[Caladan 19]

typical politics/.//throw everything and see if anything sticks

Pretty much. Last week, it was that words weren't solutions. This week it's 'omg he has a friend and they use similar rhetorical styles so the words don't count.' The week before that it was how caucuses don't really count. The week before that South Carolina didn't count because it has too many black people.

It looks to me like the Clinton campaign thought the Obama campaign would follow the Dean/Bradley/Tsongas arc and fizzle out early. It didn't, and now she's scrabbling.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This really is unbelievable. The dems had this election all wrapped up. There was no way they could lose. But for some reason they screwed the pooch. The hype about Obama turns out to be just that, hype. If he is the nominee IMO McCain will make mince meat out of him. Hillary meanwhile is going out of her way to pizz off everyone. In her lust for power she will try every shady trick in the book to get the nomination. Seating delegates that everyone agreed not to seat, going after committed delegates, and in the end counting on Superdelegates to overturn the will of the people. She will get creamed by the inevitable smear campaign the reps will start after the convention. They have pretty much assured McCain will be the president.

Gary, is having McCain as the GOP's nominee, a win? Just trying to inject a little reality here.

[Cassie 8]

This really is unbelievable. The dems had this election all wrapped up. There was no way they could lose. But for some reason they screwed the pooch. The hype about Obama turns out to be just that, hype. If he is the nominee IMO McCain will make mince meat out of him. Hillary meanwhile is going out of her way to pizz off everyone. In her lust for power she will try every shady trick in the book to get the nomination. Seating delegates that everyone agreed not to seat, going after committed delegates, and in the end counting on Superdelegates to overturn the will of the people. She will get creamed by the inevitable smear campaign the reps will start after the convention. They have pretty much assured McCain will be the president.

Gary, is having McCain as the GOP's nominee, a win? Just trying to inject a little reality here.

For the registered Republican in our household, it sure as heck isn't. He's not going to be voting for McCain.

[mawilson 2,133]

If he is the nominee IMO McCain will make mince meat out of him.

Why do you think so? McCain isn't that great a candidate.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I love how the word "borrow" is being used here to cover what it it really is, plagiarism! The ppl enthralled with Obama is that of the followers of Jim Jones. Its simply amazing to me how they can just fall to their knees in such a mindless fashion.

[Caladan 19]

It's not plagiarism, though. If I have a conversation with a fellow academic and then go on to give a talk and incorporate some of our discussion, it isn't plagiarism. It's nice to acknowledge their input -- as Obama did -- but it's not plagiarism. The guy he 'plagiarized' doesn't even think it's plagiarism.

[no name 1]

Pretty much. Last week, it was that words weren't solutions.

That's been her position all the campaign.

It's not plagiarism, though. If I have a conversation with a fellow academic and then go on to give a talk and incorporate some of our discussion, it isn't plagiarism. It's nice to acknowledge their input -- as Obama did -- but it's not plagiarism. The guy he 'plagiarized' doesn't even think it's plagiarism.

Doesn't make it NOT plagiarism, though.

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

Pretty much. Last week, it was that words weren't solutions.

That's been her position all the campaign.

It's not plagiarism, though. If I have a conversation with a fellow academic and then go on to give a talk and incorporate some of our discussion, it isn't plagiarism. It's nice to acknowledge their input -- as Obama did -- but it's not plagiarism. The guy he 'plagiarized' doesn't even think it's plagiarism.

Doesn't make it NOT plagiarism, though.

Do you think Hillary has written a single speech during this campaign?

In case anyone missed the memo, candidates have speech writers.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

It's not plagiarism, though. If I have a conversation with a fellow academic and then go on to give a talk and incorporate some of our discussion, it isn't plagiarism. It's nice to acknowledge their input -- as Obama did -- but it's not plagiarism. The guy he 'plagiarized' doesn't even think it's plagiarism.

At the beginning of his speech all he would have had to say was " Like my good freind said" blah blah. But he didnt, did he? Its plagiarism, no matter how you slice it. If Bush woulda done it, you would be all up in his ####### about it. See what being a follower in blind faith will do to ya?

Also Dems specialize in divisiveness, for Obama to even walk down the path of togetherness is obscene.

Edited February 19, 2008 by CarolsMarc

[Alex+R 0]

Pretty much. Last week, it was that words weren't solutions.

That's been her position all the campaign.

It's not plagiarism, though. If I have a conversation with a fellow academic and then go on to give a talk and incorporate some of our discussion, it isn't plagiarism. It's nice to acknowledge their input -- as Obama did -- but it's not plagiarism. The guy he 'plagiarized' doesn't even think it's plagiarism.

Doesn't make it NOT plagiarism, though.

No, but Obama having used the lines even earlier than he's accused of plagiarizing them does.

[Caladan 19]

Yes, actually, it does matter what the other guy thinks. This is not secretly stealing someone's written work and passing it off as your own. It's using a rhetorical trope that you developed in concert with your friend and used before your friend did for his campaign, and cited in earlier speeches.

It's about as much plagiarism as it would be if I were discussing Plato with a colleague, found an interesting way to describe a point, and then she used that point in her class.

And yes, Clinton's "solutions not speeches" speech is about two weeks old. She's been running on "experience" the whole time, but she's been going after Obama's rhetoric more within the past two weeks.