(Reuters) - America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhe

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Well this was in the news today

On the other point - countries in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc) have always been amongst the richest in the world. They have the highest wages and the best cost of living on average. This isn't exactly new you know...

Why do people risk their lives to get into the US?

Because the huge a land border between Mexico and the US makes it somewhat easier to get into the United States than to Europe. Somewhat easier to cross the desert than it is to swim the Atlantic...

As for the fiancee visa comment - are you actually suggesting that the people here are seeking marriage based visa's primarily to ensure a better economic standard of living? That's not exactly the definition of 'legal immigration' is it?

What democrats fail to realise is that under the socialist system (as per Norway, Sweden) the one thing that they value the most, which is freedom to be individual (aka Jack ###, Madonna, whatever), is usually lost. Under socialism you have to conform, period! Sorry that means no comming up with any new ####### such as "land/civil rights for gay whales"..

I have to say, I have spent quite a bit of time in the US over the years and it just amazes me to see how anti-American democrats are. Hey, in Australia the political parties have major differences but at least there is not a single side who behaves or trashes the country as the democrats do. Mate, if democrats don't like the 'big bad US' why don't they just get out and move to a country that is based on their ideals. Rather than talk ####### about the nation 24/7.

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

This website is Demcrat-occupied territory, amigo. Don the flame retardant suit.

[babybunny 2]

of course

coz, G. Dubya said so !

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Well this was in the news today

On the other point - countries in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc) have always been amongst the richest in the world. They have the highest wages and the best cost of living on average. This isn't exactly new you know...

Why do people risk their lives to get into the US?

Because the huge a land border between Mexico and the US makes it somewhat easier to get into the United States than to Europe. Somewhat easier to cross the desert than it is to swim the Atlantic...

As for the fiancee visa comment - are you actually suggesting that the people here are seeking marriage based visa's primarily to ensure a better economic standard of living? That's not exactly the definition of 'legal immigration' is it?

What democrats fail to realise is that under the socialist system (as per Norway, Sweden) the one thing that they value the most, which is freedom to be individual (aka Jack ###, Madonna, whatever), is usually lost. Under socialism you have to conform, period! Sorry that means no comming up with any new ####### such as "land/civil rights for gay whales"..

I have to say, I have spent quite a bit of time in the US over the years and it just amazes me to see how anti-American democrats are. Hey, in Australia the political parties have major differences but at least there is not a single side who behaves or trashes the country as the democrats do. Mate, if democrats don't like the 'big bad US' why don't they just get out and move to a country that is based on their ideals. Rather than talk ####### about the nation 24/7.

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

1. Sweden is a democracy, offering the same freedoms as the US to its citizens plus a functionally social system. Same goes for most other Western European countries nowadays...

2. If trashing the country is anti-American than the country is not a democracy. Freedom of opinion and the right to criticize one's government are core democratic values. If you don't like that move somewhere else...

3. Believe it or not the US was not founded on freedom of religion but on the ideas of equality, justice, and liberty. If you don't believe me, read any of the founding documents. Btw, calling the ACLU a "nazi" organization because you disagree with them is somewhat extreme and borders on an un-American tendency to think that noone has the right to disagree with you.

Well this was in the news today

On the other point - countries in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc) have always been amongst the richest in the world. They have the highest wages and the best cost of living on average. This isn't exactly new you know...

Why do people risk their lives to get into the US?

Because the huge a land border between Mexico and the US makes it somewhat easier to get into the United States than to Europe. Somewhat easier to cross the desert than it is to swim the Atlantic...

As for the fiancee visa comment - are you actually suggesting that the people here are seeking marriage based visa's primarily to ensure a better economic standard of living? That's not exactly the definition of 'legal immigration' is it?

What democrats fail to realise is that under the socialist system (as per Norway, Sweden) the one thing that they value the most, which is freedom to be individual (aka Jack ###, Madonna, whatever), is usually lost. Under socialism you have to conform, period! Sorry that means no comming up with any new ####### such as "land/civil rights for gay whales"..

I have to say, I have spent quite a bit of time in the US over the years and it just amazes me to see how anti-American democrats are. Hey, in Australia the political parties have major differences but at least there is not a single side who behaves or trashes the country as the democrats do. Mate, if democrats don't like the 'big bad US' why don't they just get out and move to a country that is based on their ideals. Rather than talk ####### about the nation 24/7.

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

This website is Demcrat-occupied territory, amigo. Don the flame retardant suit.

It is? What's democrat about disagreeing with statements like the above? It's not like one could find any reliable source supporting them.

[sparkofcreation 0]

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

Funny, last I checked, the ACLU ran about 50/50 for working *for* an *individual* right to practice one's religion versus *against* the *government's* attempts to institute one. Off the top of my head, the ACLU won a court victory in New Jersey where people had been removed from jury service for being too religious (discrimination based on religion); they've also won victories re: the rights of Muslim women to go to public pools [not swimming, which would be a health hazard, just watching their kids] in full veils; the right of a Catholic inmate to not have to convert to fundamental Christianity in order to benefit from in-prison drug counseling programs [the state's only drug counseling program required inmates to convert]; the right of schoolchildren to distribute candy canes with Bible verses on them to their classmates; the right of graduating high school seniors to include Bible verses and prayers in their yearbook profiles; the right of churches to rent public parks to perform full-immersion baptisms; the right of people applying for various licenses to wear religious headcoverings;...

Edited June 4, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This website is Demcrat-occupied territory, amigo. Don the flame retardant suit.

Hmmmm... I'd have to disagree with there. If anything people look to the democratic party to offer an alternative to the current madness of the Republican Bush adminstration. The fact that they are failing to do represents how stale American politics has become.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

What's better - the ACLU, or no civil liberties?

While it may make some controversial decisions, having an independent body to protect peoples interests is better than trusting the governnment to do it. A government who I might add, has spent much of the last 5 years repealing our civil rights.

[almaty 19]

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms

What's better - the ACLU, or no civil liberties?

While it may make some controversial decisions, having an independent body to protect peoples interests is better than trusting the governnment to do it. A government who I might add, has spent much of the last 5 years repealing our civil rights.

######...damn i like the aclu in allot of areas....

[Heracles 417]

1. Sweden is a democracy, offering the same freedoms as the US to its citizens plus a functionally social system. Same goes for most other Western European countries nowadays...

2. If trashing the country is anti-American than the country is not a democracy. Freedom of opinion and the right to criticize one's government are core democratic values. If you don't like that move somewhere else...

3. Believe it or not the US was not founded on freedom of religion but on the ideas of equality, justice, and liberty. If you don't believe me, read any of the founding documents. Btw, calling the ACLU a "nazi" organization because you disagree with them is somewhat extreme and borders on an un-American tendency to think that noone has the right to disagree with you.

Trashing a country yet continuing to live in it is simply stupid and has nothing to do with being a democracy. I am not saying people should not be allowed to have an opinion.

The founders of the country were all religious and their ideals were based on religion. What has happened during the last century is that people are taking things like the constitution out of context. The problem I have with the ACLU is that they would rather bankrupt a county to remove a cross from it's building, as a consequence causing funding for schools to be reduce to pay for the county’s legal fees, yet seem to turn a blind eye when a criminal, for example, is let off on a 'technicality' and allowed to roam freely at the expense of the victim. Let me guess, that's not what the ACLU covers...

[Fischkoepfin 1]

1. Sweden is a democracy, offering the same freedoms as the US to its citizens plus a functionally social system. Same goes for most other Western European countries nowadays...

2. If trashing the country is anti-American than the country is not a democracy. Freedom of opinion and the right to criticize one's government are core democratic values. If you don't like that move somewhere else...

3. Believe it or not the US was not founded on freedom of religion but on the ideas of equality, justice, and liberty. If you don't believe me, read any of the founding documents. Btw, calling the ACLU a "nazi" organization because you disagree with them is somewhat extreme and borders on an un-American tendency to think that noone has the right to disagree with you.

Trashing a country yet continuing to live in it is simply stupid and has nothing to do with being a democracy. I am not saying people should not be allowed to have an opinion.

The founders of the country were all religious and their ideals were based on religion. What has happened during the last century is that people are taking things like the constitution out of context. The problem I have with the ACLU is that they would rather bankrupt a county to remove a cross from it's building, as a consequence causing funding for schools to be reduce to pay for the county’s legal fees, yet seem to turn a blind eye when a criminal, for example, is let off on a 'technicality' and allowed to roam freely at the expense of the victim. Let me guess, that's not what the ACLU covers...

Most of the founders were Deists, a religion that believes in a God as the cause of things and events but not as a moral entity. The Deist god is also known as the "great watchmaker," whose control over the universe is mechanical in nature. Believing in such important concepts as self-reliance and social contract philosophy, the founders could not square it with their beliefs to let Christianity determine the nature of the country. The urtext for the constitution is thus to be found in Enlightenment philosphy and not in the Christian bible.

There are certainly people who take the constitution out of context, but if you want to understand it within its context, it is much more necessary to be well-grounded in Rousseau and his philosopher colleagues than in Christian interpretations of the bible. Anyone claiming the opposite takes the constitution out of context. There are also reasons why the constitution can be read in different ways, among them the fact that the founders could not agree on a more precise wording and thought it would be better to leave it up to people in the future to mold the interpretation to their needs. This has happened for the entire history of the UNited States and is not a recent phenomenon.

[pedroh 21]

i was in norway a couple of years ago and it seem a very liberal country.

[pax 0]

The founders of the country were all religious and their ideals were based on religion.

Typical disinformation re: the founders of the country. Washington, Jefferson, Adams, and many other of the "Founding Fathers" were Unitarians, deists, and/or agnostics—they were not in the contemporary sense of the word "Bible-believing Christians." Don't believe the hype.

Washington's religious views are a matter of some controversy. There is considerable evidence that indicates he, like numerous other men of his time, was a Deist—believing in God but not believing in revelation or miracles. As a young man before the Revolution, when the Church of England was still the state religion in Virginia, he served as a vestryman (lay officer) for his local church. He spoke often of the value of prayer, righteousness, and seeking and offering thanks for the "blessings of Heaven". He sometimes accompanied his wife to Christian church services; however, there is no record of his ever becoming a communicant in any Christian church, and he would regularly leave services before communion—with the other non-communicants. When Rev. Dr. James Abercrombie, rector of St. Peter's Episcopal Church in Philadelphia, mentioned in a weekly sermon that those in elevated stations set an unhappy example by leaving at communion, Washington ceased attending at all on communion Sundays. Long after Washington died, when asked about Washington's beliefs, Abercrombie replied: "Sir, Washington was a Deist!" Various prayers said to have been composed by him in his later life are highly edited. He did not ask for any clergy on his deathbed, though one was available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_washin...ligious_beliefs

In summary, then, Jefferson was a deist because he believed in one God, in divine providence, in the divine moral law, and in rewards and punishments after death; but did not believe in supernatural revelation. He was a Christian deist because he saw Christianity as the highest expression of natural religion and Jesus as an incomparably great moral teacher. He was not an orthodox Christian because he rejected, among other things, the doctrines that Jesus was the promised Messiah and the incarnate Son of God. Jefferson's religion is fairly typical of the American form of deism in his day.

—Avery Cardinal Dulles, a prominent Roman Catholic theologian, quoted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_jeffer...Religious_views

In 1779 Jefferson drafted "A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom," and he regarded passage of this bill as a high achievement. For Jefferson, separation of church and state was not an abstract right but a necessary reform of the religious "tyranny" of one Christian sect over many other Christians.

—T. Jeff himself, also at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_jeffer...Religious_views

As a Unitarian who rejected Calvinism and predestination, John Adams expressed his religious views in a 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson:

The Love of God and His creation, delight, joy, triumph, exultation, in my own existence…are my religion” . [Cappon, p 374]

—John Adams quoted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_adams#Religious_beliefs